Power steering failure?

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:53 pm

I'm not making this thread to find a solution to my problem since I know I will have to change the pump, I only want to know by which component the problem is caused.

Bought the car 2 years ago, had the power steering whine at cold start ups/low speed turns like every Neon I previously had. I did see what I thought was oil stains in my driveway but I never tried to see where it came from.

Couple of days ago, I lost power steering while driving. Scared the shit out of me since I was exiting the highway. So I went and checked the PS fluid level, sure enough was way below the "Fill" or "Add" line. That explains the stains in the driveway.

Adding PS fluid did not fix the problems.

The one thing that is kind of confusing about the problem is that above 1500-2000 RPMS, it's like I do still have PS, even when not moving. Also did the same before adding fluid.

The PS belt is fine, the pulley is fine and as far as I can tell, there's some slight fluid movement when idling and when going past 2000rpms, the movement is stronger?

I briefly searched on internet and found something about the Flow Control Valve?

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:42 pm

Flow control could be, but it is in the rack, and IIRC it is more of an "It will turn easy one direction, and hard in the other.

The older Saginaw pumps had a pressure valve in the output port of the pump, but I don't think the neon PS pumps have that? Those rarely fail to where there would be no pressure out, and it would sound like the wheels were turned hard to lock and the straining sound would be constant, because the fluid would have no where to go. This might also hold true for the flow control valve in the rack.

Check the accordion/bellows where the tie rods enter the rack. If there is fluid coming from either on of those, you may have a bad seal in the rack letting the pressure escape, thus no power assist. And/or it could just be blowing by internally.

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:19 pm

I sure hope it's only the pump and the the whole steering rack.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:01 pm

Yeah the rack is $100 more than the pump for rebuilt AZ Duralast.

I would try a used known good pump first.

Mine has never made any sound, and it has 160,000 miles on it.

It might also be possible that the pressure line has somehow collapsed internally, but IDK how good the chances are of that happening.

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:03 am

From what I read the flow control valve was in the pump? Might be different on Neons tho.

I'll be going to the junkyard this weekend and get an other pump/pulley hoping it'll fix my problem.

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:06 pm

Went to the junkyard, picked up 2 power steering pump, one from a 2000 and one from a 2004. Only difference is that the 2000 had three bolts on the pulley side and on bolt on the other while the 2004 had 2.

It seriously was a PITA to swap over in the winter while trying to keep every other lines intact. Did read in a how-to to not remove the coolant line, but I had to since I couldn't get to the 2nd bolt on the pump side. Spilt coolant everywhere.

Now the thing is, when I finished everything, put in new fluid, started the car and, great it works. Went to check the fluid level and it was milky white??

THe old fluid was brown-ish like oil and the new one seemed transparent in the bottle.

Emptied the reservoir and filled it back again and when to start the car and turn fully in both directions a couple of times. I did that 5 times but hte fluid was still white but wasn't as thick as the first time.

Is it possible that the old and new fluid mixing together at high pressure gives that milk color?

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:30 pm

If one or the other had the clear PS fluid and the other had ATF, then yes it may not mix too well. I bought an Omni that the previous owner mixed the two. It looked like someone had literally puked in the reservoir.

I did what the guy at the dealer recommended: Raise the front tires off the ground, support the car with jack stands, remove the PS return hose, unhook the coil wire and ground it/remove the spark plugs, then crank the engine to drain the contaminated fluid.
(You could just unplug the coil connector, but will have to clear the cel or wait a while for it to clear on it's own.)

You could try just starting the engine, but it will come out at a pretty fast rate, and prolly foam the fluid. Once it has gotten as much out as it can, reconnect the return line, and fill it with mineral spirits. Then reinstall the spark plugs/coil connector and let it run while turning the wheels back and forth. Repeat draining procedure/wheels back and forth/mineral spirits as needed. Once it comes out clean, fill with either ATF or PS fluid. You may need to drain the first batch/wheels back and forth to flush out the mineral spirits. IIRC, ATF+4 is the better choice over PS fluid. The 2004 pump would've/should've have ATF+4 in it. If your system is '00/'01, it would have had the clear PS fluid. IIRC, 2002 had either, depending on build date.

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:19 am

Used the 2000 pump since the 2004 was hard to turn by hand. The three pumps, 2000, 2001 and 2004 had the brown-ish fluid.

I'll drive it like that for a while and may do the flush procedure you mentionned. For now it works perfectly.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:15 am

It prolly all looks the same with age/depending on use and conditions.

The ATF in some of our forklifts at work will lose most it's color after a while.