Remove Abs?

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theguyver007
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Remove Abs?

Post by theguyver007 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:17 pm

I changed my brakes a few days ago... like in any of my older cars i did it the normal way i pushed in the Cylinder to put on the new pads did everything as i normally would, Seconds after the car was turned on the Abs and Trac off lights came on, i figured hmm maybe itll go away. i drive alot so i waited to see if itll turn off for 2 days, it didnt. I checked all my abs components theyre all connected, nothing broken everything seems fine, i read on line and it says i was supposed to open the bleed screw to push back the piston so that the fluid wouldnt go back into the ABS pump and mess it up.. Is this so on neons? SO anyway i cant stand any of those lights on so i removed the two bulbs now the Brake light turned on lol so im guessing its a safety feature in case your other two bulbs go out. SO my real question is...

How do i remove all Abs components besides the axle?
I remember seeing a post of someone asking the same thing i tried to find it without any luck, just need to know what i need to remove it and what can i do to get rid of the annouying lights on the dash. I dont want to remove the bulb for the brake light i can cares less about the ABS but im not sure as to the Trac feature what is it will it work without abs or is it part of the abs system? I know i can burn out with it on it has to say Trac off to burn out. So please thanks.. Im still trying to find more info on this but if anyone can chime in and give me some more info or a link thatll be great.

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Post by Canada » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:05 pm

I would imagine that you would have to swap the master cylinder/ abs controller to that of an non abs neon, as well as possibly some one the brake lines as I think they differ slightly due to length, etc.

The traction control uses the ABS sensor ring and braking system to function, so by removing this, you would effectively be disabling this system as well.

I guess you would have to add some type of resistor to the wires going to the ABS controller to make it think its still there, or find a computer from a non ABS car to swap over with.

I imagine Occasional Demons or Dante will chime in with much better info then I, since they are so damn smart!

Good luck!

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Post by theguyver007 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:29 pm

Master cylinder! ... EEShhh well just that, not the big round black thing.. forgot what its called... So... Master cylinder and lines... not too hard, i thought it'd be more complicated... Been looking around on the forum find alot of people with abs issues but nothing specificly on how to remove it ... Maybe ill do a write up once i start doing mine.. =)

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Post by Danteneon » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:19 pm

This is almost as tough as adding ABS to be honest. The master clylinder and lines (from the M/C to ABS unit and ABS unit to brakes) are different, then you have the ABS controler that does comunicate with the PCM in your case. The Traction control does work through the ABS, so you would loose that.

If you were able to remove all of the ABS componants you may still have the light on because the PCM will be looking for the ABS system for the traction control.

I would have to verify with the FSM to see if the bleeding procedure is different on our ABS cars, but to be honest I never had any problems with this. Have you checked just to make sure that the brakes don't have air in the line somewhere (bleed the brakes)? When you push the piston in, you tend to push fluid out of the M/C. Did you check the fluid level?
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...

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Post by theguyver007 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Yea, when i changed the brakes is when the light came on. I didnt bleed the brakes cause i didnt open the system at all at first all i did was push in the caliper piston... the only pads i didnt change are the Parking brake ones they didnt have them at the parts store at that time.. ill be geting them this friday.... I do have to change the brake fluid its black and has lots of what seems to be dirt or what not.. fluid is very dark already im thinking its rust cause car came from up north ...
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Post by Danteneon » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:36 pm

I would do a brake flush first and see if that doesn't help before trying to dismantle the system.
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...

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Post by theguyver007 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:38 pm

K , i have thought about that. Guess ill do that see what happens... Thanks...
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Post by Danteneon » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:39 pm

Good deal. Let us know how it goes :thumbup:
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...

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Post by racer12306 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:58 pm

Danteneon wrote:then you have the ABS controler that does comunicate with the PCM in your case.
This would be my biggest concern. If the PCM doesn't see the ABS, it won't be happy.
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Post by theguyver007 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:18 pm

Honestly id rather get rid of it completely. I dont like it, ive been brakeing while comeing to a stop then fall into a slope and the abs kicks in and scare the shit out of me cause it doesnt stopbefore the stop sign it actually goes further then if i wouldnt have abs and came to a stop. Very scary....
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Post by racer12306 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:24 pm

I completely understand. The ABS on my Prius is super sensitive. I did find that a good set of tires have helped a lot.

But you may be better off just selling the car for another.
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Post by theguyver007 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:37 pm

Mmm thats tuff lol itd have to have everything my es minus the abs. Lol
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Post by Jenni » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:15 pm

i cannot understand WHY the heck you wanna remove such an important helper like ABS!

having no ABS in my Ford Escort = totaled the car on a slippy road at 20 MPH
having ABS in my Neon = i am still alive after a somehow blind guy tried to t-bone me while i was at 60MPH and i had to brake and swerve. w/o ABS definitely there was no chance for one of us to survive the situation.



So please correct me if i understand something wrong, but in summary it sounds for me that you wanna remove the ABS because you are not able to change the brake pads???

I have a good idea for you: Bring your car to someone who knows how to change such sensible parts.

If that is too expensive for you please sell the car and take the bus!

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Post by theguyver007 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:58 pm

Ill forgive you cause your completely at a loss as to what i wrote... i could one re type everything i have already or 2 tell you to read everything again. It doesnt rain in miami all year round or as much to say i need abs. I know how to drive my car good enough to know how to brake without hiting someone not to mention the thought of my car not stoping when i want it too makes me nervous. If its cheaper to remove it completely then to replace then ill remove it. :-) get it? Got it? Good..... lol please. Read my first post. Pads are changed , abs went bad after. Pad change, only pads i didnt change are the parking brake. Im well aware of the safety it provides in wet road conditions and even in dry. Im happy to see you care about my safety lol thank you .

Also completely off subject here but i noticed your sig says agp wastegate @ 15 psi? Are you useing stock solenoids to run that "ecu controled boost" or are you runing the waste gate off a boost reference "manifold pressure / turbo".

Damnit lol im on my phone ive corrected several mistyped words due to large thumbs small onscreen keys lol sorry for all the incorrect word spellings lol.
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Post by trojmn » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:22 pm

IMHO removing/disabling ABS is a bad idea at best and downright dangerous at best. I doubt outright removal is a cost effective repair either.

Find a 2gn NEON or SRT FSM pdf on the interweb and read the brakes section. I believe ALL 2000-2005 neons use the same ABS system. All your answers can be found within.

To remove the ABS whatever your reasoning, you need to use some sort of rear proportioning. Otherwise you will have full pressure the the rear brakes and they will be prone to locking up at in opportune moments aka turning :shock: or basically anytime before the front brakes.

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Post by theguyver007 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:29 pm

trojmn wrote:Otherwise you will have full pressure the the rear brakes and they will be prone to locking up at in opportune moments aka turning :shock: or basically anytime before the front brakes.

Tro
Lol sounds like fun j/ k yea that i know. If i do remove it id have to use the master cylinder off a none abs neon....
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Post by trojmn » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:35 pm

and get the right proportioning valves....

again your answers are in the FSM

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Post by ZeroChad » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:38 pm

I don't have ABS on mine....been fine for 3.5 yr. Haven't a clue on the proper method to remove if it had come equipt though.
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Post by Jenni » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:53 am

theguyver007 wrote:...It doesnt rain in miami all year round or as much to say i need abs. I know how to drive my car good enough to know how to brake without hiting someone not to mention the thought of my car not stoping when i want it too makes me nervous. If its cheaper to remove it completely then to replace then ill remove it.
1. you will need ABS not only on slippery roads. My almost t-bone accident was on dry roads. But an EMERGENCY stop at high speed w/o ABS WILL cause a loose of control.

2. our cemetries are full with (young) guys who were exactly thinking the same arrogant BS! and with their innocent victims...

3. this is the biggest BS ever. i really guess you would feel good in Romania where they are allowed to fix the cars the very cheap way. But in a country with so many cars and such a traffic density you should count safety higher than stinginess.


Just go the el cheapo way but please don't claim the day your brakes fail and you end in an accident killing some people.
And then they will ask you if those handfull of dollars was really worth it! :beatstick:


maybe you should read something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

http://www.drivingfast.net/technology/abs.htm

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Post by theguyver007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:00 am

Legoman if it concerns you that much then by all means come fix it for me. So what of all the neons out there without an abs system? Are they idiots as well? call dodge tell em its "bs" to not have abs in all the cars.
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Post by Jenni » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:13 am

really - i do NOT understand why Dodge came to the stupid idea to offer Neons w/o ABS - all BUX Neons came with it. (in 2003 90% of the new cars in europe had ABS. in 2004 the european and japanese companies statet to build no cars under 2.5T w/o ABS anymore.)
But hmmm - you are not allowed to drive high speed so maybe you do not need good brakes.
And on the other hand:
Less ABS = more totalled cars = more sold cars for the companies. (And more death people = more free jobs...)

whatever...

It is not my job to fix your car.

I just wanna tell you that your idea is totally stupid.
Or do you really think removing a live saving system is very clever?

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Post by theguyver007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:20 am

Pointless...
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Post by racer12306 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:01 pm

I don't believe ABS is necessary if you have good tires and a solid head.

Just my opinion.



However, I wouldn't go removing ABS from a vehicle that has it. Way too many potential headaches.
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Post by ZeroChad » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:06 pm

Chill out Jenni. If you car does not have ABS, you simply brake differently than if it does come equipt with it. You can't slam on the brakes and go into a skid hoping that you'll stop.

Not having ABS doesn't mean that you're going to crash your car. It just means that you need to pay more attention to what you're doing and be a better driver. Pumping the brakes has the same effect as an ABS system. Ask all the Michigan drivers w/o ABS how they survive in ice storms.
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Post by Jenni » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:26 pm

if you just have a blink of an eye to hit the brakes and swerve cause suddenly someone crosses your way - there is no "pay attention and pumping the brakes" anymore - there is just survive or die. and with abs your chances to survive are way better.

In ice storms you will never drive 60+MPH...

And like i wrote before: i crashed a car w/o abs - and with abs that would have been easy to handly and i just survived a stupid blind driver with abs - and w/o abs there were no chance for one off us to survive the situation.


I am not talking about daily driving and standard situations.
I am talking about "it's neck or nothing"!

You really think in such exceptionell circumstances you will be cold as ice and pump the brakes? Don't you think a big truck jumping into your safe distance and scaring the shit out of you will give your brain the signal to press the brake pedal till it breakes? You will NEVER let off the pedal to pump. Your brain will not be able to think rational in such a situation!

And later when you wake up (hopefully) in the hospital with a wheel chair made for you - you will ask yourself every single day for the rest of your life however you could have been that stupid to remove the abs and if you still had 2 legs and a life if you had spend those ridicculous dollars for the abs check...

Don't you think so?
Just ask some accident victims in any rehabilitation clinic what they thought in that 1/10 second and how helpfull "experience" was in that moment!



Okay, maybe i am too drastic - but that COULD happen!
And maybe you can drive carefully and foresighted - but would you bet your life on every other road user arond you???

Oh - and maybe you did not know, but with abs the brake distance WILL BE shorter in almost every situation (except maybe on snow, sand or grit)!

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Post by theguyver007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:49 pm

Ive seen many videos since you went on your tantrum , maybe due to your trauma with your accident and abs doesnt seem to stop in a shorter distance in dry conditions then none abs cars... which also as far as i believe if you have a solid object causeing friction it tends to stop faster then brakeing and going... matter of fact ill like to invite anyone with abs to do this with me safely somewhere from a 50mph drive to a complete stop see which on stops first. My abs doesnt work! So ill be the none qbs vehicle in this case anyone interested? Im in miami.
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Post by Jenni » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:44 pm

the faster stop is only the topping.
but w/o abs you cannot hit the brake and steer the same time.
that's what it was made for.
see #19 2nd link...

whatever - i just hope you will not kill too many people. nuff said

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Post by theguyver007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:58 pm

Lol wow you really got issues ..... if it bothers you just dont read the thread... youve taken this completely out of hand, geezz...
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Post by Gnuserup » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:03 pm

Useless to discuss if it´s better to have it or not. My oppinion is, the most situations I like to have it, the TRAC as well.

I don´t think that ABS made me driving my cars in a different, maybe riskier way than driving without. Most times I do not recognize that I have ABS, as I am able to avoid dangerous situations - luckily.

I would like to get your ABS-parts - especially if they come for free :lol:
I like to add the ABS to my non-ABS-SXT.
OK - I have the most parts here, hmm, no, must have all except the brakelines to the rear :D

The problems which you would have to remove it should be nearly the same as they are if I like to add it -
Different booster, mastercylinder, lines

Before we guess what the pcm says to the removed ABS, try what happens if you pull the plug (and don´t forget to put the lamps back).
I would try that first and leave the parts as they are.
Maybe you would check out, which pins on the PCM are "talking" to the ABS.

Years ago I had an AUDI200 (you may know it as AUDI5000), built 1982, and yes - it had ABS. But not functioning :roll: The system was defective and the preowner did nothing than removing the lamp...
Me too. And had no problems except the ABS was not functioning.

Recently I changed all discs and pads on a bux-Neon here, and there where no problems after that. We did nothing special, only pull the rotten stuff out, push the calipers back as much as needed and install the new stuff.

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Post by Dammit Man! » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:01 pm

One man's junk, is another man's treasure. :lol:

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