Manual steering rack

Have some questions about how to achive better handling and stopping power using different springs, upgrading to coilovers, questions on swaybars, bushings, different rotors, pads, ect... Having any steering problems or questions about steering racks, tie rods, tie rod ends, ect... ask these questions here.
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MyNeonSaysHi
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Manual steering rack

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:41 am

Has anyone converted from their power steering rack to a manual rack?
I searched with no results here on 2gn. I did a google search and came up with this:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=256750
I don't want to go ghetto and just plug everything up. I believe there are som SRT guys that went with a 95 Neon reman rack from autozone for the conversion.

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Post by occasional demons » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:45 am

Thttxboy has, IIRC used a 1gn manual rack, and I believe Danteneon is working on one.

A Shadow rack won't work due to the different length. (I know, I tried)

Only one Shadow rack will work, but it is a power rack, and sort of rare version of the 14:1 ratio.
Edit:
There isn't much in the way of converting a made for power assist to non power, other than looping the lines.
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Post by 1972demon » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:39 am

Google sereach , miata de-powering the rack ,

This is how my friend did his tercel ,
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:55 pm

I plan on going with a 1st gen manual rack. Not going to loop lines. Not sure that's a good idea. Will the 1st gen subframe bolt up to a 2gn so no mounting plate is needed? I plan on doing this since the cheapest I can find a new OEM PS Pump is $277 after I send back my $50 core. My steering rack is a reman unit and it is already seeping a bit after a year. Dont want to mess with that again.

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Post by JeffM » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:20 pm

Manual Steering Conversion With Pictures

Here ya go :) He explains what he needed. You'll need to get a mounting plate fabbed up (the cheese grater looking thing in the pictures).

I was actually thinking about doing this too lately.
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Post by INVUJerry » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:46 pm

Still rocking my looped line setup on my 95 from 2009.

Honestly, it's getting old. It's also 16:1 ratio, where the SRT/2gn is 18:1. Manual rack is 22:1 ratio.

BTW, if you remove PS, don't you lose AC as well? You do on the 1gns at least.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:24 pm

JeffM wrote:Manual Steering Conversion With Pictures

Here ya go :) He explains what he needed. You'll need to get a mounting plate fabbed up (the cheese grater looking thing in the pictures).

I was actually thinking about doing this too lately.
Yeah, I have posted in that thread. But I have not read the entire thread. Seems like the OP is pretty frequent on the forums. You should do it too! These PS racks suck.

Jerry, Thats awesome that your looped setup is still running strong. But I hear it is 10x harder to steer a power rack with no PS then a manual rack. Just not setup for it. Then you have to keep your steering ratio too.
Nah you can keep AC. Just need to find a belt that fits from the crank and AC. I might get rid of my AC too. Plan on ordering parts for the manual rack tonight. :)

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Post by occasional demons » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:47 am

INVUJerry wrote:
Honestly, it's getting old. It's also 16:1 ratio, where the SRT/2gn is 18:1. Manual rack is 22:1 ratio.
SE/SXT are 16:1, R/T and SRT are 18:1 on 2gn. 1gn R/T is 16:1 all other are 18:1 1gn and 2gn are reversed on ratios to trim line. :D

22:1 would suck balls IMHO. Our D50 pick up had the manual steering. Fucking way too much turning. Effort wasn't bad, just taking way too many turns to get the job done sucks.

You will need an adapter plate. the 1gn subframe won't fit, unless you do some modding, then may as well make a plate, or cut the mounting surfaces off and swap them. (It's basically what I did when playing with the Shadow rack: Much cleaner install.)
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Post by my87csx481 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:08 am

I vaguely remember now but, when I replaced my rack, I considered swapping in an SRT rack. I found it oddly disturbing that my SXT has a closer ratio....so I stuck with the correct one for my car.

Wonder why they did that?
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Post by occasional demons » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:48 am

Slower steering response leads to less noobies wiping out their way too powerful for their experience car.

With the 14:1 in the Shadows, it was very easy to get the rear tail happy if you jerked the wheel. A panicked driver in an SRT with quick ratio is inviting disaster. They wipe them out well enough as is.
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Post by adxavier06 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:57 am

I have done the manual conversion on my 04 SXT. I used a 95 manual rack and the steering coupler only found at the dealer or junkyards. I even used the same rod ends also. All I used was a stack of washers and the old power steering rack bracket. Been driving the car for a while with no issues. But i would say i have 300.00 in the conversion. 200 for the rack and 100 for the coupling from the dealer.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:06 pm

^Awesome man!

Long story short. These 95 Manual racks are VERY hard to find. Only place that has them is www.carsteering.com. They do not have any in stock but they can make it. $350 shipped. If I can get a hold of another one I will get $150 for it. (Core)

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Post by JeffM » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:30 am

Possibly a junkyard would have one? I hear the passenger-side coupler is almost impossible to find, but if you could find the rack, you could just use an exhaust clamp.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:55 am

Yeah my friend sent me a link to junkyards that have them. Gotta call them up on Monday. I have the steering coupler on its way. :)
Since I plan on doing this swap soon and could care less about the leaky reman pump and reman rack on my car. Could I just take the ps belt off and still drive the car w/o damaging anything?

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Post by JeffM » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:06 am

Other than possibly damaging the already bad power rack, I don't see why not. Most people just take the belt off and loop the lines when they want to go manual rack on the SRT. Good luck on the swap. Let me know how it goes and take pictures! :thumbup:
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:07 pm

Why do they have to loop the lines when going that route? Oh yeah... I will take a ton of pictures and let you know.

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Post by JeffM » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:01 pm

I believe it's because they also remove the pump, but still need fluid in the rack, so they loop the lines on the rack to keep the fluid inside of it. That's my understanding at least.
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Post by occasional demons » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:02 pm

It would be a good understanding at that.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:37 pm

Hmmm. I still want to drive my silver car. So... take the PS/AC belt off and drive the car would be ideal as opposed to leaving the belt on and have the pump try to work with no fluid. Steering is indeed difficult in parking lots with no PS.

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Post by occasional demons » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:41 pm

With leaving the pump in the loop, yes steering will be very difficult, if not dangerous.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:19 pm

Yeah when I got off of work and found out there was no fluid in there. It was a PITA to steer, but then again I drove box trucks with no PS steering for a while. :lol: So take the belt off Bill?
Bad news. The dude couldn't find the 95 Neon steering coupler. So he refunded me my $$. Going to call up the stealership and hopefully I can still get one..
Supposedly the dealership offers NEW manual steering racks for $295. Got a PM on SRTforums about this.

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Post by JeffM » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:08 am

You may have to do what JTMon3y did by using an exhaust clamp as the other coupler. You'll be hard-pressed to find one unless you happen to come across a '95 manual rack in a junkyard.

And you'll definitely have to disconnect the pump from the lines in order to run the power rack as a manual 'properly'. Otherwise, not only are you trying to work the rack, but you're also forcibly trying to push against the now stationary pump, which makes it that much harder to turn.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:46 am

Good point. Was never really sure how a PS pump works. I guess it sprays fluid on the gears so it makes it easier for you to turn. Without that help the steering rack will just not last that long. But there are people that have driven that way for months with no issues. I will take the pump off today and try to figure out how to loop the lines. So fluid remains in the rack.

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Post by JeffM » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:01 am

I imagine it's similar in design to a brake booster; using the fluid as a sort of hydraulic force in order to make turning easier. The pump is there to direct fluid accordingly, as you rotate the wheel, so that fluid is distributed to the correct side of the pinion and allowing you to turn with ease.

With the pump stationary, I figure it'd be like trying to force fluid into a wall (output towards pump), and suck fluid through a straw (input to rack). Not sure about that though; just a thought.

If you take one of the lines on the rack, saaaay the output, you should be able to just run it to the input side and have an effective loop. I've also heard of people just pulling the lines and capping the ports completely.

I'm not sure whether it's blocked to keep fluid IN, or just to keep debris OUT. I've seen plenty of people run a power rack as a manual for a considerable amount of time, and I'm not sure if it really results in ultimate failure of the rack, or they eventually just get tired arms. :lol:
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Post by adxavier06 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:58 pm

MyNeonSaysHi wrote:Yeah when I got off of work and found out there was no fluid in there. It was a PITA to steer, but then again I drove box trucks with no PS steering for a while. :lol: So take the belt off Bill?
Bad news. The dude couldn't find the 95 Neon steering coupler. So he refunded me my $$. Going to call up the stealership and hopefully I can still get one..
Supposedly the dealership offers NEW manual steering racks for $295. Got a PM on SRTforums about this.
When i had to order the coupler from the dealer it was a special order item but they did find it. They got in two weeks. I get a little discount at the local dodge dealer. If you cant find one i might be able to get you one.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Thanks man, I will let you know. :)

As for looping the lines go I just attach these two lines:
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(Bottom left of picture)

Like this...
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Found the miata depower..interesting..
http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php?x=1

Edit: I looped the lines like how I had pictured and used a nice hose clamp. Drove the car around and no leaks to my knowledge. Line was dry around the clamp. Boy is it hard to drive though! I did a little wot pull in 3rd gear and got torque steer. Scared me a bit since I only had one arm on the steering wheel. Car does move out even better. It is very noticeable!

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Post by jtm0n3y » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:25 am

Hey guys feel free to email me or pm me with any questions. I do not have a part number but if you go to dodge parts dept at the dealership and tell then you need a lower steering column coupler from a 95good neon with a manual rick they can pull it up in their system pretty easily.

Btw here's how much room you get without ac and ps :)

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Post by JeffM » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:59 am

:shock: That's a lot of room. Makes me want to do it even more now.
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:15 pm

jtmon3y, awesome that you joined 2gn. I will be able to do this without having to remove the motor correct? Just drop the subframe? Thats my main concern right now...
Edit:
PN for coupler 4664175
Last edited by MyNeonSaysHi on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jtm0n3y » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:22 pm

MyNeonSaysHi wrote:jtmon3y, awesome that you joined 2gn. I will be able to do this without having to remove the motor correct? Just drop the subframe? Thats my main concern right now...
Yup! That's correct!

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