body stiffness

RSwain · Post by **RSwain** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:18 am

Has anyone made an attempt to stiffen the 2gn chassis beyond the strut tower bars? I was looking at the underside, I think I see a couple of places where some gussets. has anyone studied the weak points of our chassis ?

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:49 pm

I don't have an answer to your question, but I will say that on older MoPars, the 'K-frame' or sub-frames, were a good place to start with extra gussetting.
The added rigidity, would help.

Neons have sub-frames as well. I suppose those would benefit from some stiffening / gusseting, too.
As a side note - Chrysler started adding extra gussets & reinforcement on the Neon subframes, on later model years, and improved rust protection. (2003-2005)
Chrysler even superseded the older 2000-2001 Neon subframe part numbers, with newer ones. The newer ones have the improved rustproofing & reinforcement.

- Nick

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:38 pm

Nick, are you referring to the part the LCA's attach to?

Because I don't think they succeeded very well on the rust proofing part.

( I put a new from the dealer Crossmember on mine, '03 PN# and it is rusting through 4 or 5 coats of Rust o leum.)

('03 part number is the cheapest one, guess you get what you pay for.

But paying an extra hundred or two for basically the same thing makes no sense to me.)

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:35 am

occasional demons wrote:Nick, are you referring to the part the LCA's attach to?

Because I don't think they succeeded very well on the rust proofing part.

( I put a new from the dealer Crossmember on mine, '03 PN# and it is rusting through 4 or 5 coats of Rust o leum.)

('03 part number is the cheapest one, guess you get what you pay for. But paying an extra hundred or two for basically the same thing makes no sense to me.)

"Crossmember"..... Yes, that's the word.

I'm going to try POR-15 on mine, and then coat it with paint.

[Tip: I find that POR-15 can be 'topcoated' with paint while it is still 'tacky'..... The paint will then 'bond' with the POR-15 and never come off.]

- Nick

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:41 am

^your not kidding, better have a grinder if you need por-15 removed.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Meh, I have some places on the 1gn that I have removed as much rust as possible, soaked the Por 15 on, and they are still rusting through.

Other spots are doing just fine.

And this is being in a heated garage for the most part.

I guess when/if it gets bad enough, I'll have to cut it out and replace the metal. Grrrrrr.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:58 am

occasional demons wrote:Meh, I have some places on the 1gn that I have removed as much rust as possible, soaked the Por 15 on, and they are still rusting through.

I hear you. It seems to depend upon the severity of the rust at hand.
POR-15 won't 'seal out' any air or moisture that is already trapped in the oxidized metal or rust itself.

On the other hand, on clean metal, painted with POR-15 and 'topcoated' with pain while still tacky.... The results are Awesome.

Now, back to the original purpose of this thread.... I think we were talking about chassis stiffening.

RSwain wrote:Has anyone made an attempt to stiffen the 2gn chassis beyond the strut tower bars? I was looking at the underside, I think I see a couple of places where some gussets. has anyone studied the weak points of our chassis ?

Something else worth mentioning, while I am thinking about it.

As far as Strut Bars go, there is a great / huge difference between various brands.

I once tried a Vibrant bar, on the rear of on of my 1st gen Neons.
It was basically worthless, because it would flex so much - In spite of its pretty 'rigid' appearance.
I could not 'feel' a difference after installation.
Once I removed it, I found that I could flex it 'by hand', by propping it up in a corner and leaning on it.

Even some of the 'cheap' E-bay bars, are better !!

So, I "built my own" strut bar, by using some square tubing that I picked up at the [real] hardware store.

(Ace is the Place.)

I cut it to fit, and 'adapted' it to the strut bar hardware.

After putting the 'homemade' strut bar on the car - Which was much stiffer than the lousy Vibrant bar - I could actually 'feel' the difference in the handling, going around corners !!

The stiffer the bar, and the less flex, the better the results.

From what I have heard / read, it seems the P-Werks strut bars (especially the front) are the best ones available for the 2nd gen Neons.

- Nick

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:14 am

RSwain wrote:Has anyone made an attempt to stiffen the 2gn chassis beyond the strut tower bars? I was looking at the underside, I think I see a couple of places where some gussets. has anyone studied the weak points of our chassis ?

Ive thought the same thing. like where longitudinal frame rails stop short of connecting to the rear suspension structure.

That said just because you can make it stiffer does not mean it will be faster.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:30 am

trojmn wrote: Ive thought the same thing. like where longitudinal frame rails stop short of connecting to the rear suspension structure.

That said just because you can make it stiffer does not mean it will be faster.

Ben - Are you referring to 'sub-frame connectors' - like they ones they make for older MoPars and musclecars with unibody construction ?

- Nick

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:15 pm

yeah. and just like the older mopars torque boxes and frame connectors. But all like that, all chassis bracing is not created equal. Check out XV motorsports shaker table and what it actually takes to identify targeted chassis improvements. Never mind the the idiocy of strut bars and stock rubber strut mounts. I'll get pics of the rear section in a bit.

tro

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:21 pm

Below is fuzzy cell phone pic of the longitudinal frame rail where it terminates millimeters from a lateral cross member about the B pillar area, about the a back of the driver's seat. That gap is about 1/16thth inch. Seems like they had meant for it to connect...

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:45 pm

trojmn wrote:Below is fuzzy cell phone pic of the longitudinal frame rail where it terminates millimeters from a lateral cross member about the B pillar area, about the a back of the driver's seat. That gap is about 1/16thth inch. Seems like they had meant for it to connect...

"Production Tolerances", I bet.

- Nick

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:36 pm

I'm curious if other 2gns are actually connected or not

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:40 pm

They make a chassis brace for the srt4, I imagine it fit's the 2g neon as well. http://www.performanceautowerks.com/cat ... Path=3_121

RSwain · Post by **RSwain** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:08 pm

Thank you, DP! just like that! I wonder how much of an improvement it actually makes?

RSwain · Post by **RSwain** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:08 am

Trojmn: yes, that's the gap. Mine is closer to 3/8",which is why I asked.

Glad to know that I was right to avoid the cheap strut bars. If I make my own, any advantage to triangulating it to either the package Tray or trunk floor?

Also, any better solutions for the rubber strut mounts than just filling them?

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:00 pm

Take a look at the construction of the rear strut mounts. There is a "cup" of rubber surrounding the inner plate that the strut bolts to and it is encased in rubber. When it wears through to the bottom you get a "clunk" over bumps. keeping it from moving up and down will prolong it, but for handling you need to keep the strut from moving side to side.

So for a strut bar to do ANY damn good you have to collapse about an inch of rubber

Aftermarket camber plates would be "easier" but they are expensive. This was cheap and i dont need any more camber on the rear axle.

RSwain · Post by **RSwain** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:15 am

Where did you get the rubber cylinder? I remember the pics from a write up ,but am too tired to think right now.

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:47 am

RSwain wrote:Where did you get the rubber cylinder? I remember the pics from a write up ,but am too tired to think right now.

that's neoprene, IIRC it came from McMaster.

2GN.ORG

body stiffness

body stiffness

Re: body stiffness

Re: body stiffness