Moog Control Arm Bushing K200797 'Problemsolver'?

Have some questions about how to achive better handling and stopping power using different springs, upgrading to coilovers, questions on swaybars, bushings, different rotors, pads, ect... Having any steering problems or questions about steering racks, tie rods, tie rod ends, ect... ask these questions here.
Post Reply
04R/T
2GN Member
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:50 am
Location: 50th state

Moog Control Arm Bushing K200797 'Problemsolver'?

Post by 04R/T » Tue May 13, 2014 1:15 am

There was a tread here few months ago on these replacements for the vertical control arm bushing. They are bearings that are installed in place of the crappy bushings. viewtopic.php?t=67193

They seemed like a great idea and it looked like they would make the urethane bushings and everything else we put in there obsolete.. So when i needed to replace my clutch, I ordered these at the same time and did them when I did the clutch.

So I'm putting everything back together and I'm torquing the control arms. I'm using a Snap On 1/2 inch drive clicker and the torque according to the FSM, is 120 ft lbs for the forward and 175 ft lbs for the rear attachment. The front torques to 120 just fine but the on the rear, the bolt is tight but won't reach the torque of 175, it keeps turning. I notice that the bottom of the frame where the bolt head and washer is, is getting squeezed closer and a gap is opening between the washer and the frame. WTF? I lowered the torque wrench setting to 150 ft lb and try again, this time it clicks but when I give it another pull to verify it's clicking at 150, it turns some more, not good.

I took the control arm back off and here's what I find.

Image

The spacer that goes through the bushing has pushed through that washer that's supposed to load against the frame of the car. The one on the left is the one I took off after trying to torque it down, the one on the right was not torqued yet. The rusty part to the left of the control arms is an original piece that went through a stock bushing, notice how it's one part, you can't drive the spacer through the washer.

The spacer on the Moog part has a smaller outside diameter where the washer is pressed on and there appears to be a small shoulder that is supposed to keep the spacer from pushing through the washer when torqued. It doesn't work..Also note that the washer is bent.

Oh yeah, the spacer pushing through the washer has created a nice divot or countersink or whatever you want to call it, in the frame of my car. :roll:

Image

..And the other side that didn't have the control arm torqued down yet.

Image

I don't know, does the torque spec change when using the Moog part? The part didn't come with any info and I can't find anything? My torque wrench should be ok. I used to use it on aircraft and although I don't use it at work anymore, it always passed calibration check every year. It's never been dropped and it gets set to the lowest setting after every use....

Anyone else install these? Any problems? Did I F..k up?...well shit, looks like I drive the 'spare' R/T a few more days.. :rofl:

User avatar
trojmn
2GN Member
Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: Central IL

Post by trojmn » Wed May 14, 2014 8:22 pm

nice E-body (?) in the background....

thats unfortunate design issue. Call Moog for support? the mech E's would probably say thats the only way to design/mass produce the center post with the ball joint. Both pieces are mild steel? Might be able to weld the second one before installation as long as you keep it cool.

Honestly i wouldn't sweat it if the center post were two pieces. Thats how i installed the currie Johnny joints a couple years ago. If you need to make the bent one work then cut off the bent spacer, then cut down your good center so that the installed height doesn't change. Will the old center span the divot? If not you will have to get creative.
03 SRT
Now building for GS ;-)

04R/T
2GN Member
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:50 am
Location: 50th state

Post by 04R/T » Thu May 15, 2014 4:09 am

.. I called Federal Mogul this morning and talked to them about it. The usual it's a new part, shouldn't do that etc, etc. They were interested in seeing a picture of it. IMO, the washer is to soft. Anyway, I got some grade 8 large area washers and I'm going to make it work the way you were thinking.

One more thing, the guy at federal mogul has the torque at 150 ft lbs out of a Mitchell manual, I told him the FSM says 175. So there's a discrepancy there. If I had torqued the bolt to 150 lbs, the washer probably wouldn't have caved in. :?

Oh yeah, the challenger in the background is the neighbors, it's parked behind a 60 something firebird.

04R/T
2GN Member
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:50 am
Location: 50th state

Post by 04R/T » Fri May 16, 2014 12:23 am

Talked with Federal Mogul again this morning, same guy I spoke with yesterday. He said he had talked with the testing engineer who actually installed these bushings in test vehicles and their opinion is that the problem I have is due to over torquing. In testing they installed these bushings in a few Neons and a PT Cruiser torquing the bolt to 150 lb ft. with no problems.

So how would anyone know about the lower torque, is the torque spec on PT Cruiser different? Maybe in they'll put some installation instructions in the box in the future, who knows?.. I'll install the undamaged one using 150 lbs, we'll see what happens.

fixit
n00b
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Post by fixit » Fri May 16, 2014 10:17 am

mine didn't push though, used 160#
link to writeup http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f75/how ... ar-677162/

04R/T
2GN Member
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:50 am
Location: 50th state

Post by 04R/T » Sat May 17, 2014 4:43 am

fixit wrote:mine didn't push though, used 160#
link to writeup http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f75/how ... ar-677162/
I must be one of the lucky ones who got defective crap. In your thread, the last guy who posted i think is talking about having the big washer fall of his. :tardbang:

On the one I had trouble with, I did what trojmn above suggests. I cut the washer off, cut the spacer down and made my own to go in there by welding 2 large area grade 8 washers together. The hole in the new washer is the same ID as the hole in the spacer, so the spacer won't push trough when the bolt is being torqued. On the other side, I installed it as Moog intended and guess what? It started to do the same thing! I set the torque wrench to 100 lb ft and kept a close eye on the washer and spacer as i torqued it, the wrench clicked at 100 and all seemed ok. next the torque wrench is set to 120 and i start torquing but before it clicks at 120, I see the spacer start to push into the washer and the washer starts bending with a gap starting to open around the edge of it. So I stopped tightening right there.

I'm going to run it like it is with the bolt torqued somewhere between 100 and 120 while monitoring for weird steering response or noise from the front. It's too bad these things turned out the way they did, for me anyway, I think they're a great idea. IMO if the washers on the ones I installed were harder steel, they would have worked fine. I'm still thinking about buying another set and modifying them by removing the washers and having new washers made out of tool steel.

Post Reply

Return to “Suspension, Steering & Brakes”