2GN.ORG

Which one do you recommend?

Ummm you're comparing a hand applied solution to one that needs to be applied with a rotary buffer for best results. Not to mention Perfect It and Perfect It II are meant to be used as systems, not apart from one another.

What are you trying to remove?

Mostly swirls and light scratches. And I will be doing it by hand.

This is the only 3M at the stores around me.
http://www.autogeek.net/3mperllrubco.html

the Meguiars Scratch X 2.0 works wonders for me when i wax the shit out of my car!! u will like how it comes up to!

3M will require more steps.....I've never used Perfect It without a rotary either.

If you are doing the whole car, pick up some Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. ScratchX 1.0 and 2.0 are meant more for specific "spots" on the paint. Ultimate Compound will get more defects out of the paint as well, being more aggressive. Neon's tend to have a harder clear, so the more aggressive product will save you some later. Just be sure and perform your process in a taped off test spot so you can make sure the paint will look how you want it to before you do the entire car only to be disappointed.

ScratchX didn't do a damn thing for me on my new car. $9 wasted.

How did you apply and remove it? How big was the area you were working on at a time?

I used the scratch x on my wifes car (aqua blue focus ) for some small clear coat scratches and it did nothing. I used the meguiar's ultimate compound and Gold class wax over that and now you can barely notice the scratches unless you are like a foot away. this would be good for fine scratches and swirls but if your scratches are deep it more than likely do nothing.

I used the Meguiar Swirl Mark remover and it did nothing except leaving white residue that is super hard to remove by machine. but to my surprise turtle wax (basic green one) helps a little bit...

3m Rubbing works great for me when I try to remove the paint left by the other car on me.

The reason I ask how it was applied is that I used Meguiar's Swirl X on my Neon with these results:

(Don't mind the swirls near the line. I didn't get close enough while cleaning the paint with the product. You can see the actual results in the second picture.)






A bit of information:
Swirl X is less aggressive than Scratch X 2.0 and Ultimate Compound, yet it still did a job well done on my car. There is a big difference between the original Scratch X and the new 2.0 version. I'd guess the new 2.0 version is what jT has because the original did not cost that much. Anyways, the original Scratch X is leass aggressive than any of the above; which in conjunction with the harder clear coats on the Neons, could very well mean that it will not be able to remove the defects in the paint. Also, Meguiar's consumer line of products are not meant to be applied with a rotary machine, which could lead to problems with the product not performing correctly when used with that machine.

I swear by Meguiars for everything!! 3M is nice too!

the only question i have is how does the wax applied? is that in orbital or straight motion since i do hear about the different result from those two.

when i do the application, i put a thin layer of meguiar swirl x onto the coat by a rotary buffer. then removed by that machine again minutes later. maybe that caused the problem? so it should be applied by hand, but in circle or straight? thanks.

i can see the result which is very good.

esfan wrote:the only question i have is how does the wax applied? is that in orbital or straight motion since i do hear about the different result from those two.

when i do the application, i put a thin layer of meguiar swirl x onto the coat by a rotary buffer. then removed by that machine again minutes later. maybe that caused the problem? so it should be applied by hand, but in circle or straight? thanks.

i can see the result which is very good.

The application direction for a wax, whether it be circles or straight lines, should not make a difference because you should not be instilling swirls or scratches into the paint when doing so. For example, larger areas I usually work in circles because I can spread the wax better. On say, the A-pillar, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to try and do circular motions. If the pad is clean and the paint is clean, it won't matter. There will be no varying results. I'd bet anyone any amount of money that they could not tell which direction I applied the wax to my trunk lid, for example. Would it have come out any different if I went, say, only in circles? Straight lines? No...

Swirl X, along with all of Meguiar's consumer line of products, are not meant for rotary buffer use. The high speed and heat, well, as you found out, just don't play well with them. Those products are meant to be used by those who will grab the 4-pack of foam applicator pads a few feet down the shelf. Rotary buffers should be used with extreme caution and the utmost care. Not only will they leave holograms and buffer trails in the paint when something is not being used properly, they can very easily burn through the paint. I use a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher, for example. It is the "down the middle of the road" option. Much better than the extra large, $20 Craftsman orbitals, but much safer and user friendly than a rotary. It does not generate near the heat of a rotary, so consumer products in turn can be used with it, as you can see. I won't go into all of that in this thread, but could expand on it elsewhere if anyone wishes. *EDIT after re-reading your post*: Also, another small, but rather important piece of information about Meguiar's products: the only products that are intended to actually be left on the paint to dry are waxes. Any of the paint cleaners and polished are meant to be applied, and then immediately removed. If allowed to dry, as you say you did, for a few minutes, you will make removal of the product difficult. They are what detailer's call a WOWO product. "Wipe on, wipe off." In this case, it may not have been the machine causing the problem, but letting the product dry before attempting to remove it.

Anyways, if you only have either elbow grease or a rotary, I'd go with hand application. I have used Swirl X by hand as well. It did not do as good of a job as by machine, but it also will not have the problems you experienced. Only having those two application options available really limits anyone in the ability to either use over the counter, consumer products and being able to achieve professional results. Not that either is bad, it's just one of those things where if you have more tools, you are better off.

If you want to work on your paint with a rotary machine, I would choose a product from Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Professional Line, which are able to be used with and formulated for a rotary machine without the problems like you have had. If I were to recommend products, I would pick up some of the new M105 Ultra Cut Compound and M205 Ultra Finishing Polish. I have never seen anything but the highest praises for these two, newer products. From there, you can follow up with a pure polish if you'd like, or proceed to wax the vehicle. The two above products, when used with the correct pads and speed, will leave the paint looking better than new. I do also know where you can pick up 12oz. "sample" sizes of them so you would not have to buy the 32oz. or larger bottles of them.

I hope this answered some questions and then some. Have a good one!

Good post Darth lots of great info, saved me from having to post some of it. I love M201 Polymer sealant...but it's meant for newer paint only. I'm a huge Meg's professional line user, I also have 3M's Finesse It 2 and some of Car Brite's professional line. I do everything by hand with my car, it's never seen a buffer though I do have a Dewalt 849 Rotary. M201 is amazing, followed by SurLuster.

M20 is a great product, though, one of the few I don't have. It is somewhat similar to M21, but actually has some cleaners in it as well. I would love to pick some up one day. The only thing I'd ask though, is what do you mean by newer paint? Like, modern paint systems? If so, yeah, I guess in a way it is. It still can be used though on even single stage finishes with excellent results. Another bit of info since there seems to be more than a few Meguiar's users here: The 80 series products were actually designed (I can't think of a more appropriate word at the moment) for modern clear coat finishes. They do however, still work great on single stage finishes as well.

Here are some pictures of my truck that has a single stage paint job, probably done by Macco or the like, but cleaned with Meguiar's M83 and waxed with Meguiar's M26 (I think. May be Color X or NXT. Can't remember now.):









As you can see, there is quite a bit of gloss and reflection in the paint. I have also used Swirl X recently with excellent results as well. The newer products use the new SMA technology versus the old DMA technology. Also, one more thing. M205 is formulated and intended to be used specifically with a rotary buffer, but I think others may have used it with a PC.

It is all about using the correct products the correct way. Wax is just the icing on the cake. The paint will only look as good as the prep work before that microscopic layer is layed upon it.

I have the 21 as well. When I read up on it it stated it would achieve best results with new paint and not damaged paint. It wasn't meant to "fix" things so to speak. That's the best I can describe it. Both are amazing sealants.

Thank you very much for those details darthroush. Now i get the methods of applying those wax.

LilSparkPlug wrote:I have the 21 as well. When I read up on it it stated it would achieve best results with new paint and not damaged paint. It wasn't meant to "fix" things so to speak. That's the best I can describe it. Both are amazing sealants.

Oh, I get where you are going now. Yes, M21 is intended to be used on prepped surfaces as it contains no cleaners in it. If you apply it to contaminated paint, it will most likely not last very long at all. Essentially, if you were not concerned with defect removal, you could clay the paint then apply M21. M20 is nice because it is similar to M21 (not the new 2.0 version however), but can be applied to paint the may have some contamination because it has cleaners in it to help adhere to "dirty" paint.

esfan wrote:Thank you very much for those details darthroush. Now i get the methods of applying those wax.

No problem! Glad it helped!

I have the new 2.0 version and it's amazing.....

You maintain it with Ultimate Quik Detailer or M135?

I actually maintain it with Dodo Juice detailers and I have a soft spot for Mother's Carnuba Spray Wax. But right now I'm using Mopar spray wax (made by Meguiars).

I think this info is deserving of a sticky...

LilSparkPlug wrote:I actually maintain it with Dodo Juice detailers and I have a soft spot for Mother's Carnuba Spray Wax. But right now I'm using Mopar spray wax (made by Meguiars).

Dodo Juice huh? Too pricey for me, lol. You should give Meguiar's new Ultimate Quik Wax a try when you run out of the Mother's. It was one of the products I have tested for Meguiar's before it actually came out. Good stuff, and you can actually even use it on black plastic trim with no worries --> helps protect them too. It has the new Hydrophobic Polymer technology in it that NXT 2.0/M21 2.0/ UQD have in them.

Side note: After talking with some people at Meguiar's, the Mopar Spray Wax is probably very close to the regular, consumer line spray wax.

Just remember all, a spray wax isn't a replacement for the real deal.

Yes Mopar's line of products is Meguiar's....re-branded. I also use Dodo Juice's concentrated Carnuba car wash as well. I have more cleaning products that any normal person should...LOL

LOL, right there with you!