2.4 swap

Doing a SRT-4 Motor swap into your Neon, maybe even a 2.4... have questions about it, what you'll need or what issues you'll run into? Answers can be found in here.
NickKo
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Post by NickKo » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:54 pm

occasional demons wrote: I think if you heated the spindle nut hot enough to alter it's metallurgy, you might have a grease fire in the hub. :lol:
That's exactly what I was thinking, too !! :)


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:49 pm

Crossmember is mounted solid.

Hul kogan (Chris) also had to grind the forward lower center mount bolt head down too. You'll have to ask him (PM) about the reasoning there, as I didn't see the engine in the car recently enough to even remember. Probably wouldn't have seen that anyways. Too much other stuff to be drooling on then. :lol:

All I know is I hope it isn't rusted in place - shouldn't be, or torqued tighter than *@$*Z$$&..

Chris is the master of an 8 page PL with very few pics. :lol:

Image
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Post by atzottola » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:02 pm

you won't change the metalurgy of the steel when heated, but you will change the temper. I use a brazing torch with a small tip. It only heats the nut.

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gtxtreme19
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Post by gtxtreme19 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:28 pm

I THINK Chris ground that bolt head down to clear the filter casting when putting engine in the car, I could be wrong but its a nightmare coming in and out. Personally I opted for the SRT oiling system
-Mike
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Post by atzottola » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:50 pm

Neon lower torque arm mount trimmed back and Stratus oil pan and filter clearance picture.
I have the engine where the old one was. the top of the engine needs rolled towards the firewall. Just wanted to show how much clearance there is with the torque arm mount trimmed. How do I do it?

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Post by NickKo » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:22 pm

atzottola wrote:Neon lower torque arm mount trimmed back and Stratus oil pan and filter clearance picture.
I have the engine where the old one was. the top of the engine needs rolled towards the firewall. Just wanted to show how much clearance there is with the torque arm mount trimmed. How do I do it?
You mean -- How to post the picture ??
If so.... You'll need to post the link to the ('hosted') picture, in-between the 'Img' tags.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

atzottola
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Post by atzottola » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:03 pm

Let's "pretend" I don't know how to do that.
I see Mr. One World pasted a picture about 4 posts back. How do I do that? I'm not very good with computers. Can you tell?

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gtxtreme19
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Post by gtxtreme19 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:35 pm

You need to host the photo to a site like photobucket or flikr first
-Mike
Midnight_Rider wrote:
Skitlz wrote:Gramps, get a GPS.
Gramps Prefers Streetmaps. :D

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Post by occasional demons » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:02 pm

atzottola wrote: I see Mr. One World pasted a picture about 4 posts back.

LOL, maybe i should change that.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=388551
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Post by atzottola » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:56 pm

Darn, thought I could just hook my camera up to it like I do with email and attach it. Just trying to document what I'm doing in case someone else wants to do a similar swap without looking for $100's of used parts.

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Post by occasional demons » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:08 am

Unfortunately, most forums cannot host pictures, you need an external account. Some you can, but only if you pay a premium.
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Post by atzottola » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:26 am

With the lower torque strut brace cut back, there is 3/4"-1" clearance with the engine in the stock location. Of course, you must brace the lower portion of the engine. Mine will be solid mounted with new cross members. Engine can be lowered in from the top if you tilt the front of the engine down when lowering in. Once the filter is past the unibody, you can level it out and slide the whole mess into place. Of course, I have everything (and I mean everything) out of the engine bay. Would be much easier from the bottom if you don't.

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Post by atzottola » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:03 am

I'm struggling. I'm at the wiring part of the swap (what I feared most). If I use the Neon computer and wiring, and just splice in the engine harness plugs, etc. Will it run?
Remember the engine is from 1998 1st gen Stratus with an automatic trans. The Neon is a 2003 with a standard trans. I cut the wiring out from under the dash of the Stratus and kept everything under the hood from it. Nothing is the same on the Neon harness except maybe the cam sensor plug and injector plugs. I started to try and use the Stratus engine harness and wiring but soon realized that everything would have to be changed all the way inside the car. The Neon wiring is still intact and engine wires are labeled. I have the Stratus harness on the engine now, but can easily take it off in a couple minutes.
To complicate things more, The intake and throttle body is from an older DOHC Neon. I'm really at a loss and just stared at it all day Saturday. I don't care what it looks like, just want it to run and if I keep all the Neon wiring/computer it would be nice if the gauges, diagnostic port and stuff worked. HELP!!

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Post by NickKo » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:16 pm

atzottola wrote:I'm struggling. I'm at the wiring part of the swap (what I feared most). If I use the Neon computer and wiring, and just splice in the engine harness plugs, etc. Will it run?
Remember the engine is from 1998 1st gen Stratus with an automatic trans. The Neon is a 2003 with a standard trans.
I'm really at a loss and just stared at it all day Saturday. I don't care what it looks like, just want it to run and if I keep all the Neon wiring/computer it would be nice if the gauges, diagnostic port and stuff worked. HELP!!
The older '98 Stratus engine, is 'Non-NGC'; whereas the 2003-2005 Neon, was NGC.
The reason this is important, is because of the complete re-engineering triggering difference of the Crank Sensor setup, between the two engines.

You can't really use the 2003-2005 NGC Neon computer, to run the pre-NGC engine, because of the difference in the crank triggering.

The other alternative, would be to use a newer 'NCG' 2.4 engine, 2003-up.
OR -- You could try adapting the older electronics to the older engine; but then, you would have to swap EVERYTHING electrical.... Wiring harness and all. That would be crazy.

If this were my project - I would Megasquirt it.
That is probably the most practical and cost-effective way to go.... Short of staring over with a newer 2.4.
For Megasquirt help.... You might want to try reaching out to Erik Steinmaier. :)


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

atzottola
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Post by atzottola » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:16 am

What is NGC? Not that it matters now. Knowing this, I guess I need to try and figure out which wires I have to power in the old wiring harness. Like I said, I yanked the whole thing from inside the firewall out. I have the computers, fuse panel under the hood and all. The only thing that would seem to be powered behind that would be the fuel pump. I can put 12 volts from a toggle switch for it. I'd like to toggle switch the rest also. Starter is easy enough. Just have to figure out what to power in the harness. Any help on that? Wish someone would have alerted me to this 30 posts ago. Would have gone a different route. I'm too deep in now to quit. I still have the Stratus sitting in the driveway so any interior parts are still on it.

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Post by occasional demons » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:39 am

atzottola wrote:What is NGC? Wish someone would have alerted me to this 30 posts ago. Would have gone a different route.
Post 2 basically spelled that out for you.

If you do some re wiring, you can still make it a go. Just use the connectors from the stratus PCM, and graft them into the engine harness for the '03. The wire colors should match for the most part. You will need to extend the crank sensor wires to reach around the back.
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Post by atzottola » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:18 pm

Are you saying to swap all the stratus wiring from the firewall out? The Stratus had 2 ECM units under the hood plus the fuse block. I could do that, it would be about 30 or 40 wires.
The engine harness would then be the one from the Stratus. I guess I'm a little confused.
Can I assume that we are not going to use the Neon ECM and engine wiring harness at all? Or am I going to wire it in at the gray and black plugs that are on the Neon and run it through the Neon ECM?
Forgive me for my ignorance on this, I thought it would be much simpler from the way the discussion had been going.

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Post by atzottola » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:41 pm

gray and black plugs do plug into each other from the different cars but there are not any matching colors. I can easily trace them out to the TPS, Coil,etc. Not sure if this helps my cause if the Neon ECM won't run the car. The garage is warmed up and I'm still not sure what to do. One thing is, I only want to cut and splice once. After that it will be a real mess.

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Post by occasional demons » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:55 am

You can use a 2001 to 2002 neon PCM if you use the newer IAC motor/throttle body from the '03 neon. Would have to make an adapter to use it with a DOHC manifold.

If you use the stepper motor IAC/Stratus TB, then you can use the '98 Stratus PCM to run the engine. You said there were two control modules? The Stratus must have the 41te ATX then. You may get some codes/CEL without the TCM connected. The engine should run without it tho.

The Stratus PCM like said, will not control the '00 up instrument cluster, you will need different gauges...


A pin out for the Stratus PCM and the '03 will help matters, but as long as you are primarily concerned with just making the engine run, as long as you get the sensors/ignition/injectors wired correctly, it should be good.

Basically just make a stripped down engine harness, and then power the PDC seperately if you need body wiring function.
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Post by atzottola » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:26 am

So, just to be sure we are on the same page.
Use the Stratus wiring, underhood fuse block and PCM. Throw power to it, or the fuse block from a toggle switch, another for fuel pump and use another for Engine start. I have mechanical gauge for water temp. Not worried about speedo and other stuff. May be difficult to diagnose any problems down the road without the diagnostic port. Guess I could patch that in and see if it works.
There are 2 large plugs to the PCM. Do I need the second one at all? Everything to the engine is on the 1 plug and the black and gray plugs that attach near the fuse block. I will plug it in, because it is there, but what are the functions on that one? Basically I have 2 functions to make an engine run, Fuel and compression. Just trying to get the spark and injectors. With all the wiring stripped out, at least it will be easier to figure out where the fault is if it doesn't run. I'll be holding my breath as I yank everything out of the Neon. Please get back to me before I start hacking tonight.

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Post by occasional demons » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:15 pm

I'll see if I can look up the pin out for the stratus PCM on the Chrysler connector website. I can link that too, when I get home. I don't know for sure if you can get away with just one connector, pretty sure you will need both.
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Post by atzottola » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:16 pm

I will plug both in, it is there so no reason not to. I won't get to work on it tonight or tomorrow anyway. Will give me some more time to think about it. I may just let the Stratus junk hang over the fender, hook a battery up and try everything before I start chopping. If I can get it to fire, everything is coming out.

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Post by occasional demons » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:29 pm

http://connectors.dcctools.com/home.htm

They don't give the pinout for the '98 Stratus PCM.

But here is a '99:

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C1 - BLACK 40 WAY

Mopar Package #: 5013994AA

Cav Circuit Gauge Color Function
1 -
2 -
3 K17 18 DB/TN IGNITION COIL NO. 2 DRIVER
4 K19 18 BK/GY IGNITION COIL NO. 1 DRIVER
5 V32 20 YL/RD SPEED CONTROL ON/OFF SWITCH SENSE
6 A142 18 DG/OR AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
7 K13 18 YL/WT INJECTOR NO. 3 DRIVER
8 D20 18 DG GENERATOR FIELD DRIVER
9 -
10 Z12 18 BK/TN GROUND
11 K19 18 BK/GY IGNITION COIL NO. 1 DRIVER
12 -
13 K11 18 WT/DB INJECTOR NO.1 DRIVER
14 K58 18 BR/DB INJECTOR NO. 6 DRIVER
15 K38 18 GY INJECTOR NO. 5 DRIVER
16 K14 18 LB/BR INJECTOR NO. 4 DRIVER
17 K12 18 TN INJECTOR NO. 2 DRIVER
18 -
19 -
20 F12 18 DB/WT FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (ST-RUN)
21 -
22 -
23 -
24 -
25 K42 18 DB/LG KNOCK SENSOR SIGNAL
26 K2 18 TN/BK ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
27 K127 18 BK/OR OXYGEN SENSOR GROUND
28 -
29 -
30 K41 18 BK/DG HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR 1/1 SIGNAL
31 K90 20 TN DOUBLE START OVER RIDE
32 K24 20 GY/BK CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
32 K24 18 GY/BK CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
33 K44 18 TN/YL CMP SIGNAL
33 K44 20 TN/YL CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
34 -
35 K22 18 OR/DB THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
35 K22 20 OR/DB THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
36 K1 18 DG/RD MAP SENSOR SIGNAL
37 K21 18 BK/RD INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE SIGNAL
38 -
39 -
40 K35 18 GY/YL EGR SOLENOID CONTROL


POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C2 - BLACK 80 WAY
Mopar Package #: 5013994AA

Cav Circuit Gauge Color Function
41 V37 20 RD/LG SPEED CONTROL SWITCH SIGNAL
42 C18 20 DB/YL A/C PRESSURE SIGNAL
43 K4 20 BK/LB SENSOR GROUND 1
44 K7 18 OR/WT 8 VOLT SUPPLY
45 K10 18 DB/LG POWER STEERING PRESSURE SWITCH SENSE
46 A14 16 RD/TN FUSED B(+)
47 Z1 18 BK GROUND
48 K40 20 BR/WT IDLE AIR CONTROL MOTOR NO. 3 DRIVER
49 K60 20 YL/BK IDLE AIR CONTROL MOTOR NO. 2 DRIVER
50 Z12 18 BK/TN GROUND
51 K141 20 TN/WT HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR 1/2 SIGNAL
52 K25 18 VT/LG BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
53 -
54 -
55 C24 20 DB/TN LOW SPEED RADIATOR FAN RELAY CONTROL
56 V36 20 WT/VT SPEED CONTROL VACUUM SOLENOID CONTROL
57 K39 20 GY/RD IDLE AIR CONTROL MOTOR NO. 1 DRIVER
58 K59 20 VT/BK IDLE AIR CONTROL MOTOR NO. 4 DRIVER
59 D1 20 VT/BR CCD BUS(+)
60 D2 20 WT/BK CCD BUS(-)
61 K6 20 VT/WT 5 VOLT SUPPLY
62 K20 18 WT/RD BRAKE SWITCH SENSE
63 T10 20 YL/DG TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE
64 C28 20 DB/OR A/C COMPRESSOR CLUTCH RELAY CONTROL
65 D21 20 PK/LB SCI TRANSMIT
66 G7 18 WT/OR VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR SIGNAL
67 K51 20 DB/VT AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY CONTROL
68 K52 20 PK/GY EVAPORATIVE EMISSION SOLENOID CONTROL
69 C27 20 DB/PK HIGH SPEED RADIATOR FAN RELAY CONTROL
70 K108 18 WT/TN EVAPORATIVE SOLENOID SENSE
71 -
72 K107 18 OR/DG LEAK DETECTION PUMP SWITCH SENSE
73 -
74 K31 20 BR/LG FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL
75 D20 20 LG SCI RECEIVE
76 T41 20 BK/WT PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH SENSE
77 K106 18 WT/DG LEAK DETECTION PUMP SOLENOID CONTROL
78 -
79 -
80 V35 20 LG/RD SPEED CONTROL VENT SOLENOID CONTROL
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Re:

Post by occasional demons » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:42 pm

gtxtreme19 wrote:
Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:32 am
look at Hul_kogan's post about putting his 2.4 in he had to remove the lower torque strut to let the oil filter fit. he ended up using a remote mount oil filter and put the mount back on, then had trouble with oil leaking.
He also had a HG leaking coolant into the oil. That engine was a mess. :lol:

In the end, I think the only parts my brother used from it were the pistons and rods. Partly my brother's fault for letting it sit for too long after we got it home. Either way, it would have needed torn down to completely clean it up.
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