Canuck 2K,Diablo,any1 that can help another Sentry question

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:06 pm

Well we attempeted to start the car this weekend and it didnt start, well it did but didnt stay running. so with some research i figured that the sentry key stuff in my 2k was still pluged up and my brand new S1 ecu has seen a sentry key for its first time and now is currently locked up and will be looking for sentry moving forward. So from what i was told if i want to do the running with out sentry trick then i have to purchase another S1 which iam not really to excited about but atleast i get another kewl sticker right......lol well my question to you guys is, all i have to do is just unplug the wire of the ignition were it says imoblizer or is there more to this sentry crap that i have to disconnect, cause if the new S1 goes, iam going to lose my freaking mind. Any help would be great thanks guys in advance.

refect · Post by **refect** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:23 pm

no need to buy another stage 1 to program sentry keys or delete them. just get it reflashed..

here is some links to do it if the local dealer or person doing the reflash doesnt know how to...

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43352 - reflash method
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43350 - rekey method

also if you got a sentry key system already in there you just need to get some new blank keys cut to your ignition from the dealer and program them in...once a key is programed to the skim it cannot be programmed into another vehicle/ecu so that is why you got to start with a fresh new one...

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:13 am

Ok now iam confused, i dont have none of the srt-4's sentry stuff thats in the engine bay, and i was told that in order to get this work i either have to buy all this extra stuff or i could just get a S1 that has never seen sentry and disconnet my neon sentry and then plug the computer up and it should work, but i was told since i have the S1 looking for sentry now since i forgot to disconnect it. Right now i have the wires that went to the srt-4 dangling in the engine bay. so my question is if i dont have to get a new S1 and i get this reflashed what else do i have to do in order to get this summa bitch to run?

refect · Post by **refect** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:18 pm

did your car originaly have a sentry key system with it?

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:53 pm

with my car yes, with the srt-4 yes.

When i started the car i wasnt supposed to have the 00 neon sentry hooked up cause now the S1 knows its there and is looking for it, iam so confused i dont know what to do. the only thing i know is that i dont want to buy another computer and this one messes up too, thats why iam trying to make sure what all consist of the sentry stuff in the 00 neon.

refect · Post by **refect** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:59 pm

well if you have a sentry key system in there and your stage 1 knows it and is trying to read a sentry key try this....hook ALL the sentry key stuff back up. then go to the dealer and buy a new set of blank sentry keys. have them cut the new key to your original key so they work with your ignition (i think it costs like 30 dollars or something for new keys). next have the new keys programmed into the ecu...dont know if this will help any, but here is how it is told to do it in the manual using a drb III or without a drb III......

STANDARD PROCEDURE - TRANSPONDER PROGRAMMING

USING A DRB III SCAN TOOL
All Sentry Keys included with the vehicle are pre-programmed to work with the Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS) when it is shipped from the factory. The Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM) can be programmed to recognize up to a total of eight Sentry Keys. When programming a blank Sentry Key transponder, the key must first be cut to match the ignition lock cylinder of the vehicle for which it will be used. The vehicle’s four digit PIN code will be required to complete this task since you will need it to enter the Secured Access Mode in the SKIM. The following steps must be completed using a DRB III scan tool:
(1) Insert the blank key into the ignition and turn it to the RUN position.
(2) Using a DRB III scan tool, select "Theft Alarm," "SKIM," Miscellaneous," and then "Program Ignition Key."
(3) Enter the four digit PIN code using the DRB III scan tool. When programming is completed, the SKIM will exit Secured Access Mode and the DRB III scan tool will display the results of your attempt to program the key. One of five distinct results may be displayed. All five are listed below:
- "Programming Successful" is displayed if the Sentry Key programming is successful.
- "Learned Key in Ignition" is displayed if the key in the ignition has already been programmed into that vehicle’s SKIM.
- "Eight Keys Already Learned (At The Maximum) Programming Not Done" is displayed if eight keys have already been programmed into the SKIM. In this case, if a new key needs to be added due to a lost or defective key, the "Erase All Keys" command (which requires entering the Secured Access Mode) has to be performed. Following the "Erase All Keys" command, all keys that will be used to operate the vehicle MUST be reprogrammed to the SKIM.
- "Programming Not Attempted" is displayed after an "Erase All Keys" function is executed.
- "Programming Key Failed" is displayed if further diagnosis is required.
To learn additional keys, turn the ignition OFF, remove the learned key, insert the next new blank key, and repeat the steps from the beginning.

"CUSTOMER LEARN” MODE
This feature is only available on domestic vehicles or those which have a U.S. country code designator. This procedure requires access to at least two valid Sentry Keys. If two valid Sentry Keys are not available, Sentry Key programming will require the use of a DRB III scan tool. The steps required to program Sentry Keys with two valid Sentry Keys follows:
(1) Obtain the blank Sentry Key(s) that need to be programmed. Cut the keys to match the ignition lock cylinder mechanical key codes.
(2) Insert one of the two valid Sentry Keys into the ignition switch and turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
(3) After the ignition switch has been in the ON position for longer than three seconds, but no more than fifteen seconds, cycle the ignition switch back to the OFF position. Replace the first valid Sentry Key in the ignition lock cylinder with the second valid Sentry Key and turn the ignition switch back to the ON position. The second valid Sentry Key must be inserted, and the ignition key to the ON position, within 15 seconds of removing the first valid Sentry key.
(4) About ten seconds after the completion of Step 3, the indicator light will start to flash and a single audible chime tone will sound to indicate that the system has entered the "Customer Learn" programming mode.
(5) Within sixty seconds of entering the "Customer Learn" programming mode, turn the ignition switch to the OFF position, replace the valid Sentry Key with a blank Sentry Key transponder, and turn the ignition switch back to the ON position.
(6) About ten seconds after the completion of Step 5, a single audible chime tone will sound and the indicator light will stop flashing and stay on solid for three seconds and then turn off to indicate that the blank Sentry Key has been successfully programmed. The SKIS will immediately exit the "Customer Learn" programming mode and the vehicle may be started using the newly programmed Sentry Key.
These steps must be completed in their entirety for each additional Sentry Key to be programmed. If any of the above steps are not completed in the given sequence, or within the allotted time, the SKIS will exit the "Customer Learn" programming mode and the programming will be unsuccessful. The SKIS will also automatically exit the "Customer Learn" programming mode if:
- It sees a non-blank Sentry Key when it should see a blank.
- If it has already programmed eight ( 8 ) valid Sentry Keys.
- If the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position for more than about fifty (50) seconds.

NOTE: If you attempt to start the vehicle while in “Customer Learn” mode (LED flashing), the vehicle will behave as though an invalid key is being used (i.e. the engine will stall after two (2) seconds of running). No faults will be logged.

NOTE: Once a Sentry Key has been programmed to a particular vehicle, it cannot be used on any other vehicle.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:57 pm

will this work even if i dont have non of the srt-4 sentry stuff that was in the engine bay? Where is the sentry stuff at in the 00 neon?

Post by **Diablo0** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:47 am

Ummmm... I'm confused about whats dangling in the engine bay and what you have in the car right now as we speak or really what exactly is happening right now. From what I gather though you shouldn't need a new PCM.

Everything has to match... EVERYTHING. The sentry module is on the steering column right next to the ignition, nothing is in the engine bay for the sentry stuff. The keys must match the SKIM (sentry key immobilizer module) and that must match the PCM and the keys must match the SKIM. You can have whatever ignition cylinder in the car that you want as long as the data in the key matches the SKIM and the SKIM matches the PCM. If the SKIM doesn't match the PCM the red alarm light will blink or stay lit on the cluster.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:24 am

Ok so right now i have the skim that came with the car (next to the ignition) I have the key that matches the skim and a stage one that matches nothing, (which is locked by the way) so do i have to get the stage one reflashed to match the key and the skim i have ? is this even possible?

refect · Post by **refect** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:02 pm

the ecu locks itself up after like 3 times or so of trying to start the car with a non matching skim. it should unlock itself after like a half hour or so. if not just try un hooking the battery for a while and it should go back to normal, and let you try to start it. now if you say you have a set of sentry keys, a sentry module and an ecu that does not match the sentry keys. then what you need to do is go down to the dealer and get a new set of keys cut to your original keys for the ignition cylinder. then have them program the new set of keys into your stage 1. it should be able to hold up to 8 sets of keys. after that your new keys shoudl match your ecu and let you start the car.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:21 pm

so the immoblizer doesnt have to match just the key and the computer? cause the immoblizer i have is the one from my 00 neon.

Post by **Diablo0** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:52 pm

Brad, I think you may be misunderstanding him or I'm not reading it right as well

He has keys and a SKIM that match b/c it's from the original motor (Year 2000) His problem is the SKIM isn't matching the PCM b/c the PCM is the SRT. If anything you might be able to get the PCM reflashed to your Neon vin but I can't say if that'll really work b/c I dunno if anyone has tried it. I tried but getting the dealer to understand what I was talking about was near impossible even having 5 guys around trying to comprehend what was in the car and from what year. If it doesn't work you'll need to find yourself a new SKIM and buy a new set of keys to them have programed to match the PCM. Either that or track down a junked SRT that someone hasn't scavenged yet and get the SKIM and Keys off it then have the PCM programmed to reflect that of the VIN thats in the SKIM from the car it was pulled from. Make sense?

Hopefully it does

refect · Post by **refect** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:20 am

aaahhh yes i was misunderstanding him

i was thinking he was talkin about the keys werent matching the ecu or skim. if you get a new skim and keys and program them to the ecu like diablo0 was sayin it should work. getting the stage 1 reflashed above with the new vin might work too. if it does all youll get is an invalid skim message, but the car should run. not 100% sure on that method though....i just read before that when people with srt's; when they get used stage 1's they just reflash their vin in it and it works even though non of their skim information was transfered over to the ecu. the car runs, but they just get the invalid skim code. so thats why it might work in your situation since you got a matching skim and key. like i said though not 100% sure if that would work....

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:28 pm

Ok i think iam straight thanks to you guys i owe you one.... i found a guy on 2gn.org that is selling a key, skim and he is giving me the vin so i am g0ing to get that reflashed in my computer and see if that should work thanks again guys.

c2k · Post by **c2k** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:43 pm

i still have a s1 pcm that's never saw a skim

if ya want it..

let me know

dutchofsc · Post by **dutchofsc** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:38 pm

oh yes. the never ending skim problem. i uzed my original keys, original skim and a s1 computer. towed the car to the dealer and after spending a long time explaining to the tech what i wanted done, ge got out the drb III and went to town. now my computer has my original vin in it and everything works. i have the same keys and skim, and no lights. it cost me an hour of labor ($95), but i tink it was worth it. good luck, let me know how it goes.
btw, i also have a 00 neon.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:10 pm

Yeah but the scary thing i called about 5 dodge dealers in the area and all of them said that it was impossible and 2 of them said they wont even look at the car cause its been swaped. what dealer did you take yours?

refect · Post by **refect** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:52 pm

most dealerships dont know that it is possible to reflash a stage 1 and will look at you like you are crazy when you ask about it. chances are if you go to one of your local dealerships with the instructions i gave above (srtforums reflash and rekey method) on reflashinging and show them to one of the techs that work with the drb III; they will read it over and understand what needs to be done. just print out the instuctions and take it up to the dealership and ask for one of the techs to have a look at it and see what they say...

Post by **Diablo0** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:03 pm

Been though this on another situation not related to the swap. Pretty much came down to if I'm paying to have it done whats the point in them saying yes or no? They're getting their money for their time no matter what. I'd be telling them to give it a try, if it doesn't work then eh... they aren't out anything because you'll pay them for their time. If it does work though, they still aren't out anything b/c you'll still pay them for their time. If dutchofsc was successful in getting his Neon VIN programmed into his PCM to match the SKIM and Keys then that should make your life a lot easier instead of having to buy a new SKIM and Keys or track down a used SRT set to get the PCM programmed to.

You could always send it to Flight Systems to have Stephanie I believe it is reprogram the PCM for you to the VIN that you want in it which would be your Neon VIN.

dutchofsc... I do want to make sure I have it clear though. You're using your Neon SKIM and Keys right? Not that from an SRT? I have always been curious if that could be done. My dealer would have done it but they couldn't get their head around what I did to the car so they had a heard time understanding. I had all the parts to get it running so I just had them program another key to make life easier on all of us...

refect · Post by **refect** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:25 am

Diablo0 wrote:You could always send it to Flight Systems to have Stephanie I believe it is reprogram the PCM for you to the VIN that you want in it which would be your Neon VIN.

yup i sent my stage 1 to her a while back. i think i either sent her the wrong vin or i need to have a sentry key system, because when i got it back it still didnt work. car starte dup and shut off immediatly due to the skims. i been meaning to go to the dealreship and see if they can delete the skim codes out the ecu using that rekey method above. im thinking it mgiht be able to do it if there is no skim programmed in the ecu to recognize. or it jsut wont let the car run..if not guess ill have to get a sentry key system set up in there if i want to run stage 1. only reason why i want to get this damn stage 1 working too is because it takes a better liking to my afc over the stage 0...

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:29 am

I've been reading into this and doing some searching... the DRB III tool is available in the aftermarket, though its $6k. I haven't checked yet, but will soon enough, maybe your local Kragen-Checkers-Schucks or what not will have that tool that can be "rented." Then one would just have to reflash the system, if I understand things correctly....

Post by **Diablo0** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am

Yah you can buy the tool from Mille Tools but finding someplace that has it and will rent it out to you I think would be very hard to come by

I could be wrong but I just think thats doubtful...

dutchofsc · Post by **dutchofsc** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:12 pm

dutchofsc... I do want to make sure I have it clear though. You're using your Neon SKIM and Keys right? Not that from an SRT? I have always been curious if that could be done. My dealer would have done it but they couldn't get their head around what I did to the car so they had a heard time understanding. I had all the parts to get it running so I just had them program another key to make life easier on all of us...

[/quote]

Yes. I have my 00 keys and skim, and i have s1. I went tododge land of columbia(i know the guys out there)and had this done. Original key, no messing around with the skim and no problems starting or no sentry codes.
Basically like someone said, this is what i want, this is what i'll pay you and i want you to DO IT!!! Definetly bring a copy of the pint out on the how to, because this is what the tech did when i wached him. He played around a lot, but got the job done.
I dont think that buying and drbIII is the best idea concidering its price, and i defineatly didnt see any that you coud rent.
Good luck to all that still have this wonderfull task ahead of them.

BTW you cant remove the skim out of the computer (as far as i know, or anyone i have talked to)

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:00 pm

I haven't found this one covered under the sentry key topic, but if you had the Key, the ignition column, and the ECU, from the donor... would that solve this problem???? (these are the three elements right?)

Post by **Diablo0** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:31 pm

TO just swap over you need the ignition key cylinder, SKIM module that fits on the steering column, keys, and PCM. For the sentry system to work properly those have to match each other.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:57 pm

yea you dont need the entire steering column, i almost made that mistake.

Post by **Diablo0** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:01 pm

Yah, they're the same, no need to pull the whole thing, that'd be more of a PITA haha.

Oldmike · Post by **Oldmike** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:53 pm

Sorry to resurrect such an old post, but in a search I did, this matched my problem the closest. Have a 2002 Neon SE, ATX, bone stock, that I bought wrecked to rebuild. In the wreck, one of the two plugs that go into the top of the PCM got damaged and one pin broke off. Not knowing any better, went to local junkyard and bought a used PCM from an 02 ATX with same part no. exactly. Car is all finished, looks beautiful. Try to start and it cranks 3 times and dies and no more. There is a red light that came on under the oil light on the dash and I get a p1685 code (SKIM has found invalid key). Call dealership and they say you can't reprogram a used PCM to another car. I read every post in this thread and I'm a little confused -- What is a stage 1 PCM? Does my dealer just know how to reprogram PCM (He was real nice and said if I could printout instructions, he would love to know how). Also is sending the PCM to Flight Systems an option? Seems to be quite a few real knowledgeable guys on the board. Can any of you give me some advice?
Thanks a bunch,
Mike

refect · Post by **refect** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:41 pm

that red dot looking light is your security warning light from the skim keys not matching. stage 1 is an srt 4 ecu upgrade so it wont work with a 02 atx. flight systems only really reflashes srt staged ecu's too. last i check i dont think they reflash stock ones. im pretty sure it is possible to reflash a stock ecu, but most dealerships dont know how and it gets kinda complicated i believe, becasue you have to get all kinds of security numbers for that specific vin from the main dodge place to be able to change stuff on the ecu. now im not 100% sure if it will work on yours, but that ecu is able to hold up to 8 different sentry keys. now because the ecu does not match your current key set......one thing you could do is go to the dealer and get a brand new blank set of sentry keys for like 35 dollars and have them cut to your ignition cylinder (same shape as your current car keys). then have the new fresh blank keys programmed into the new ecu so it recognizes the keys and allows it to start. once a sentry key is programmed to an ecu it cannot be programmed to another one so you got to start over with a fresh set. it is a 50 50 chance it will work becasue im not sure how it will react to the vin of the ecu being different than the car, but it might be worth a shot. thats really the only way i can think of to get it to work. or get all the matching sentry key stuff from the car you got the ecu and swap that in, and it might work. also after 3 times of trying to start the car with non matching keys the car goes into security mode and wont allow it to crank over or anything. i believe it will usually reset itself over time, but to do it quicker or to make sure it does reset; disconnect the battery for a while and then hook it back up and it should be reset and allow the car to try and turn over again.

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:31 am

Read what ACR MAN says here. He is an instructor for DCX.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=282119