98 Breeze 2.4 into 2001 Neon R/T

Doing a SRT-4 Motor swap into your Neon, maybe even a 2.4... have questions about it, what you'll need or what issues you'll run into? Answers can be found in here.
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04R/T
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98 Breeze 2.4 into 2001 Neon R/T

Post by 04R/T » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:15 am

So I have a 2.4 from a 98 Breeze and the 2001 R/T that i want to swap the engine into. I have just bought on e bay: 1st gen DOHC intake, 05 PT Cruiser right side engine mount bracket, front mount bracket for AC compressor, 05 PT Cruiser oil pan, oil pump and pickup, structural collar, oil filter adapter and accessory belt tensioner. Looking for reasonably priced SRT 4 power steering pump and hoses, power steering mount bracket, alternator brackets, trans support bracket and mustang 24 lb injectors. I have an extra Neon 2.0 wiring harness that I can cut up to extend wires etc.

Also what does everyone doing this swap use for a radiator? didn't see anything definitive in all the stickies here. Will the original suffice or should I be looking for an SRT radiator also?

Anything else I need? :tardbang:

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gtxtreme19
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Post by gtxtreme19 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:18 am

Use your radiator. You don't have to extend only a few wires no need for a second harness. The info on swapping a non SRT motor is is a bit harder to find. Do a bit of searching and you'll find everything you need to know
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Post by occasional demons » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:07 am

Check the injectors that came with the 2.4. My 98 stratus engine had the 21 lb injectors in it. They flow 24 lbs @58 psi. 21 is at 49 psi.

Now whether or not they are gunked up from sitting is an other matter. You can get the brand new injectors from Five O Motorsports for about $150.

I used the heater hardlines that came with the 2.4. A little creative rubber line plumbing works to plumb them to the 2.0 IM.

Mine is a 1gn swap, but this applies to either platform.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

04R/T
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Post by 04R/T » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:13 pm

So the Neon radiator will be ok and the injectors, are the 21lb injectors what came in that year cloud car? or is there any way to tell what they are? The ones that are in the engine now should be ok, I drove the Breeze around the block, into my garage and yanked the engine last week. In any case I see new Motorcraft CM5088 injectors at Rock Auto for $24.79 each.

How does the 2.4 run with the R/T PCM? I know R/T has a more aggressive timing curve, hope the combination of it and the R/T exhaust system will give it a slight bump in power over what it was when it was in the Breeze.

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Post by mrmopar16 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:52 pm

In for more info. About to do this same exact swap in my '01 R/T. :D

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gtxtreme19
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Post by gtxtreme19 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:00 pm

Guys please search, there's a lot of info on this site about this. My progress log, neontj, and hul kogan. there's a plethora of information about a 2.4 swap

Mrmopar your close enough I could help possibly
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Post by occasional demons » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:18 pm

Match the bosch number on the injector with this chart to be sure of what you have.

http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/F ... Rates.html

Bosch number 0 280 155 784

0-280-155-784

21.3 LBS/HR

223.9 CC/MIN

161 GRAMS

43.5 PSI

3 BAR

Mopar PN 4669938 DOHC 2.0 neons/2.4 1st gen Stratus

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/product- ... ?p=4669938

You will need to use a DOHC fuel rail, which shouldn't be a problem if you get a DOHC manifold with rail and injectors intact. Or use adapters to use the SOHC rail.

These run great with the 58 psi regulator. I have an OBX PT header, and 2.0 cams, which are a small up grade over the 2.4 cams. Will eventually fab a box intake manifold and go with a 60mm TB directly mounted.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

04R/T
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Post by 04R/T » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:34 am

Thanks for that injector flow rate link, :thumbup: will check it out as soon as the engine is mounted on a stand, just waiting on a couple of M12x1.75x140 bolts to show up.

04R/T
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Post by 04R/T » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:40 pm

The search function here is... well :| Sometimes searching things turns up thousands of hits, or more likely I'm not using it properly.

Found this thread over at the other org. The guy has done the same 2.4 N/A swap that I'm doing (engine and car) and there's a lot of info here. I don't know if I would do everything the guy did or if his info is 100% accurate, but any way here's a cut and paste from the post. i kind of separated his post into paragraphs as it was hard to read, for me anyway, in it's original form.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are my findings in the 2gn 2.4 swap.

I started with a 98 2.4 stratus motor and i had already done srt timing setup to it using the stratus covers and stratus oil pump when it was in my 1gn.

Modified the covers for the srt mechanical tensioner to fit. Now i am running pt/srt timing covers as well as pt/srt oil pump, pan and pick up tube so the dog bones fit. You gotta run the pt/srt oiling system so that the engine fit. the other oiling setups like my 98 motor had will hit k frame and not allow lower dog bone to be mounted.

Now for power steering there is a few choices you can run. Full srt/PTGT setup (pump,res,lines) which has to be used with the srt motor mount plate. You can use pt NA mounting plate and power steering system but with 1gn reservoir.

Or run like i am and use the 2.0 stock setup, run lines along side motor and under upper dog bone mount with the modern 2.4 pw steering bracket for 1gns and the tabs cut off the motor mount plate.

And lastly what ever the guys is using in that 2gn.org link. Intake manifold. dohc intake manifold de90'd works fine and fits in the bay no issues. but to hook up to stock intake box or other intakes kits it may not fit correctly as i found out with mocking up to a stock box.
My current setup that fits like a dream and looks like a magnum style intake is a dohc indy upper and 2gn indy lower half. Fits great with lots of room in the bay and hooks up to intake kits and stock box no problems as it has correct angles and everything.

Box manifold also works great and fits no problem and can be hooked up to aftermarket intakes with just a 45 degree hose.

Exhaust manifold . some people have tryed the obx/tti long tube and found it hits the firewall bad. so some use stock pt manifold or a shorty header. I have found an afx v2 header fits perfectly like it was made for it. Clears firewall, k frame, coolant bottles and shift cables and tucks up into the exhaust tunnel perfectly. so if you can use that header for best fitment.

A/C system, srt mount with stock neon ac pump works great and fits along with the a/c lines. i have fitted both styles of a/c system and both work. Only issues area is which pw steering setup you run. i could not run the stock 2.0 steering lines and pump with the firewall mounted a/c dryer setup. i had to go back to the passenger wheel well mounted setup.

Pt cruiser a/c bracket will work only if you use pt a/c pump. Or least thats what i found. The pump mounting was spaced farther on the bracket not letting neon pump to mount to it.

Pt cruiser 2.4 t350 braces for pan to trans support.

Pt water pump neck for coolant outlet and ive found the rad/single fan from my brothers 05 works great and lets you use the stock lower 2.0 hose. The stock rad in my 01 moved the lower rad hose rad outlet towards the drivers side more and im not sure what hose id use. Did not have a dual fan setup to look at in the shop.
Upper hose i was able to use stock 2.0 upper hose to 2.0 dohc water neck.

Stock coolant overflow fits fine.

Coolant hose lines from firewall to intake, water pump i ran my own new rubber hoses. but you can use the 2.4 or 2.0 dohc hard line ones if you want to stock hoses.

Sensors i reused the 2.0 ones other then cam sensor(dohc needed).
Harness fit with a few sensor wires lengthened.

Alt i used stock 2.0 alt with pt na upper and lower mounting brackets just like the 1gn guys use.

You can use srt crank pulley, stock 2.0 pulley, stock pt 2.4 pulley or after market crank pulleys. Stratus one is bigger and setup different.

Fuel rail ive used sohc or srt with custom mounts so they fit dohc manifolds. Or use a dohc rail and it hooks up the the stock fuel line.
Im also using 24lb fuel injectors with the stock 58lb tank reg. If kevin skyes starts flashing the ecus with pt firing order you will be able to use 19lb injectors like a stock pt does. Which leaves me to the next area.

Ecu. Guys are using stock sohc ecus with the normal pin swaps for injectors and coil pack. Others are using pt ecus with no wiring changes. But a smaller rev limit then the 2.0 neon pcm. Me personally i have kevin skyes doing a dohc pcm flash for mine. The pt ecu does the firing order internally which is why no need for pins swapping like you do for use of 2.0 ecu. Kevin is supposed to be working on an ecu that flashes your 2.0 sohc pcm to a 2.4 dohc pt file with raised rev and his tweaks. which wont need pin swapping.
Axles use stock 2gn/pt axles and same with shifter cables.
Clutch i would use the normal pt or 2.7 clutch. I personally have a cm stage 3 in there as it was laying around.

My setup is 98 2.4, srt oiling, srt motor mount plate, mpx udp, afx v2 header, borla 2gn r/t muffler, obx piping, high flow magnaflow cat, indy dohc/2gn hybrid intake, 60mm mpx 2gn t.b, srt air box (for now), crane 18 cams, crane springs, crane retainers, arp rod bolts, balance shafts deleted, srt timing setup and timing covers, pt alt brackets, srt a/c bracket with neon ac pump, 2gn 2.0 pw steering pump with modern 1gn steering backet, cm stage 3 clutch (non mod) 3.94 hd trans, safc II, aem wideband, syked ecu, 24lb injectors, stock 2.0 sensors, slightly modified harness, cam magnet rotated 90 for 2.0 cams.

All pictures are fitment and prep for final install.. engine bay is getting resprayed, engine parts all re painted and re powder coated, parts cleaned up so it all looks like new and OEM installed. so bare with the yuck looking parts and install

------------------------------------------------------------------

There are pictures in the link.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=405773

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Post by akirony » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:01 pm

Nice :thumbup:
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

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Post by 04R/T » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:00 am

Does any one have any pictures of the stock 2nd gen throttle body in it's original location connected to the 1st gen DOHC intake manifold? I have searched all over the place but have not seen a picture. I would like to use the original TB and airbox in the stock location but I'm not sure if it is possible. I have the magnum bellows tube and a regular neon bellows tube that i believe is longer than the magnum. I also have been looking at some bellows tubes off other cars, but I would have to drop the engine in, and then see where the TB outlet and manifold inlet are in relation to each other and if this is possible.... unless some has done or tried this.

I also have an AEM CAI for the magnum and could probably figure something out to fit it, but I'd rather use the stock airbox if possible.

I'm looking at cutting the 90 off the intake and having a 45 degree cast tube, or whatever tube would work, welded to the intake. I'm trying to make the installation look as stock as possible.

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Post by occasional demons » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:52 am

You could get a no 90 bottom plenum, and make the stock TB work with that. You could use some silicone couplers and a 45º elbow to get it close.

I really think the 2.4 would like a direct mounted 55mm to 60mm TB a lot more. Mine really seems to run out of steam after 5000 rpm with the 52mm and DOHC 90° IM.


My whipped 2.0 with a 60mm direct mounted TB pulls so much better from 3500 up, compared to the 2.4.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

04R/T
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Post by 04R/T » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:08 am

You're right about these stock 2.4's being out of breath after 5k, Maybe needs a little more cam? Crower has these on clearance. They don't look like much more than the stock 2.0 cams but with the Magnum ECU in a daily driven stocker the engine may have a little more life in the 5k rpm range.

The silicone couplers should work and I see they come in a variety of shapes and flexibilty, will have to drop it all in and see how it looks. If the TB is bolted to the stock airbox, I would have to see if one of these couplers has enough give for engine movement. I don't know, if it becomes a pain I might just leave the TB connected to the manifold and do something else for the air filter..

I saw this easy DIY de-90'd manifold with a 2nd gen TB, but it needs a more round inlet for a slilcone coupler to seal i think. I like the one Modern has for 1st gen, it has a smooth transition from the welded on pipe to the plenum. Something like this with a short 45 degree tube welded on instead of the long straight pipe may work..

Image

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Post by NickKo » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:27 am

04R/T wrote:Does any one have any pictures of the stock 2nd gen throttle body in it's original location connected to the 1st gen DOHC intake manifold? I have searched all over the place but have not seen a picture.

I would like to use the original TB and airbox in the stock location but I'm not sure if it is possible.
I have never seen such a picture, yet.
I'm not sure one exists.

You could start by doing a 'mock up' of the DOHC intake manifold bolted up to the cylinder head, and see where it sits, in relation to the factory airbox.


I like the idea, of the 'DIY De-90'd manifold' that 04R/T posted above. :)


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

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Post by occasional demons » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:43 am

You could use one of these Spectre elbows between the IM and the TB to get the angle.
Image

I would still weld a nice round tube to the IM, instead of risking a vacuum leak. Or build up the area with JB weld like suggested.

To use the stock TB with one of those elbows, you may need a reducer. IDK if they sell them small enough to fit the stock ~2 1/4" TB flange. The 2.5" elbow works perfect with the 60mm size.

Before I put the TB directly on the IM, I had this with a silicone reducer to attach the oem TB:
Image

While it worked, the vacuum at idle/hard decell, would still move the silicone/band clamps. I never had an issue, but it was what eventually motivated me to just direct mount a TB. I would recommend a hard reducer if you cannot find a close enough match.

The IM really didn't make any noticeable change with the stock 52mm TB either. Putting the 60mm directly on there is what really woke this thing up. I think the biggest issue with 60mm TB's is they are still mounted to the ~52 - 54mm bottleneck of the oem manifolds.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

04R/T
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Post by 04R/T » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:53 pm

So I will contend with the intake/TB/ air filter once the engine is installed, maybe a mustang 60mm can be incorporated at the same time, meanwhile...While researching the intake/ TB I ran across some info on the PT/SRT oil pumps that we are using during this swap that may be of interest to anyone considering this and does not know about.

The PT/SRT pump is a high volume unit, the PT/SRT turbo engines need more volume to compensate for the oil squirters and the turbo. On an engine with out these things, there is more volume than needed so you end up with high oil pressure. This should not hurt anything if one is careful to not rev the engine when it's cold or use oil that's to thick, but it will take extra horsepower to drive the pump.

You could try messing around with the spring but it's not convenient. It's behind a cup plug and snap ring, the pan needs to come off and it would be a trial and error process to get it right. There are no lighter tension springs readily available.

I see that Rock Auto still lists a different pump for the 2001-2002 PT N/A engine. It's supplied by DNJ engine components, $150 + shipping.. :x .... The picture shown of this pump has an external cap for the relief valve, so it is accessible from outside the engine. Anyway, I bought and installed the PT/SRT parts, that's what i'll be using.

04R/T
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Post by 04R/T » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:02 am

Slowly getting the engine ready to install... I didn't like the way the cut up Status timing cover looked so I bought a used timing cover set on ebay. The description said it came off a 2006 PT Cruiser so I put it on along with a new timing belt, tensioner, idler pulley and water pump. These parts I got from Parts Dinosaur, they're going out of business so they were on clearance sale. The water pump that came with the kit has a closed impeller like you find on SRT 4 or PT Turbo, the tensioner is the Littens SRT type and the belt is made in the USA by one of the big manufacturers.

When I put the damper on it didn't fit, the hole in the timing belt cover where the crank snout comes out is too small and the damper hub rubs it when it's installed... Wierd, does the 2006 PT Cruiser have a damper with a smaller center hub to fit through the cover?? Oh well, the die grinder and cutting bit should fix that.

The original Stratus dipstick tube had to have it's mounting bracket cut off and it needed to be bent very slightly to get it to fit. One of the cast in support struts on the 1st gen intake was clearanced with a die grinder and carbide cutter bit. Now that it fit well, how to secure it? well I could have welded the bracket back on and bolted it on somewhere... Instead I drilled and tapped the support strut with 10/32 threads and installed a #6 adel clamp, a stainless steel L bracket and some hardware I had lying around. Nice and tight now... Don't mind the dirty engine, it will get cleaned up before it goes in...

Image
Image
Image
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NickKo
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Post by NickKo » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:43 am

04R/T wrote:Slowly getting the engine ready to install... I didn't like the way the cut up Status timing cover looked so I bought a used timing cover set on ebay. The description said it came off a 2006 PT Cruiser so I put it on along with a new timing belt, tensioner, idler pulley and water pump. These parts I got from Parts Dinosaur, they're going out of business so they were on clearance sale. The water pump that came with the kit has a closed impeller like you find on SRT 4 or PT Turbo, the tensioner is the Littens SRT type and the belt is made in the USA by one of the big manufacturers.

When I put the damper on it didn't fit, the hole in the timing belt cover where the crank snout comes out is too small and the damper hub rubs it when it's installed... Wierd, does the 2006 PT Cruiser have a damper with a smaller center hub to fit through the cover?? Oh well, the die grinder and cutting bit should fix that.

The original Stratus dipstick tube had to have it's mounting bracket cut off and it needed to be bent very slightly to get it to fit. One of the cast in support struts on the 1st gen intake was clearanced with a die grinder and carbide cutter bit. Now that it fit well, how to secure it? well I could have welded the bracket back on and bolted it on somewhere... Instead I drilled and tapped the support strut with 10/32 threads and installed a #6 adel clamp, a stainless steel L bracket and some hardware I had lying around. Nice and tight now... Don't mind the dirty engine, it will get cleaned up before it goes in...

Image
Image
Image
Now THAT, is the RIGHT way to do an installation !!!! 8) :thumbup:
Attention to details, folks !!! :thumbup:


I am sorry to hear that Parts Dinosaur is going out of business, however. :( I've done business with them before, they were good to deal with.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

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