Newlite's 01' ACR..2.4 I'm back guys!!!

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:55 pm

^that sounds awesome! you still going to post vids and pics this weekend of the neon running?

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:46 pm

updates!?!?!?!? u said videos and pics this weekend!!!! haha

newlitemotorist · Post by **newlitemotorist** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:12 pm

Ive been busy guys....updates coming soon!

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:28 pm

donde donde!!!!

newlitemotorist · Post by **newlitemotorist** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:58 am

Hey guys....you are going to hate me but I was unable to get pics while finishing the car last nite.

She runs!!! Ill have to get pics this week but after a few tries and messing with the injector plugs we finally got it running and running pretty darn good. Its like it came with a 2.4 really, runs smooth and quiet and has really nice pickup. Still has gas fauled plugs and old gas so I am sure it isnt running as good as it could but I would say it was deffinitly worth the trouble but this swap is NOT for the common bolt on modder. There were things that I had to figure out which were not documented but that was because I used a few different things for this swap. So for the record, this swap should be left to the seasoned wrench turner.

Ill also get a vid up soon........but know that there is now a confirmed and real N/A 2.4 swapped 2nd gen running around indy. Ill get back with you guys soon.

LilSparkPlug · Post by **LilSparkPlug** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:10 am

Awesome! Glad it went smoothly for you

Little ACR has new life.

neonslg09 · Post by **neonslg09** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:07 am

More picturesss

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:45 pm

nice man glad everything is up and running.

SlvrACR · Post by **SlvrACR** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:14 pm

Nice but I would have taken some paint and engine cleaner before dropping it all together.

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:25 pm

I'm bookmarking your project log; I'll be doing this same swap next year.

The one thing I don't quite get is the fuel injector moving. I know the 1st gen guys change PCM pinouts because the firing order or the pulse order is different. I'm guessing that you're just swapping injectors around instead--the same effect, just the other way of doing it. Is that correct?
Also, have you considered using 1st gen injectors to solve your potential lean-running issue? I have it on pretty good authority that when Chrysler upped the fuel PSI in 2000, they dropped the rating on the injectors (by how much, I don't know--perhaps 17#?). Upping the injectors to 1st gen 19#'ers plus the 58psi regulator should give you the fuel you need.

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:51 pm

you want 24# with the 49 psi regulator

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:14 pm

hybrid-Srt2001 wrote:you want 24# with the 49 psi regulator

Eh...but he's using a modern 58psi regulator. Frankly, 49psi @24# (at only 80% duty cycle) is rich for a stock hp 2.4L engine. Probably about right for a mild bolt-on engine (intake & exhaust) making another 10bhp.

For a 58psi regulator, it doesn't look like you really need the 24# until you hit around 180bhp. Otherwise, 19# or 21# are closer to being right on (at 85% and 80% duty cycle, respectively).

Check out this website:
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/InjectorSizeCalc.html

All things being equal, I'd just pocket some 1st gen injectors the next time I was at the u-pullit yard.

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:26 pm

what do the dual cams use?

Fuzzyneon · Post by **Fuzzyneon** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:25 pm

hybrid-Srt2001 wrote:you want 24# with the 49 psi regulator

ive heard this over and over and over

im currently at 60psi regulator on 19lbs swapping in 24lbs soon

sullivan · Post by **sullivan** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:44 pm

i run the 24lb injectors and its perfect on a mild 2.4

newlitemotorist · Post by **newlitemotorist** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:53 am

Mat wrote:I'm bookmarking your project log; I'll be doing this same swap next year.
The one thing I don't quite get is the fuel injector moving. I know the 1st gen guys change PCM pinouts because the firing order or the pulse order is different. I'm guessing that you're just swapping injectors around instead--the same effect, just the other way of doing it. Is that correct?
Also, have you considered using 1st gen injectors to solve your potential lean-running issue? I have it on pretty good authority that when Chrysler upped the fuel PSI in 2000, they dropped the rating on the injectors (by how much, I don't know--perhaps 17#?). Upping the injectors to 1st gen 19#'ers plus the 58psi regulator should give you the fuel you need.

I havent heard anything about daimler decreasing the rate on the fuel injectors. So far the car is running great. I have a first gen coupe that has a 2.4 in it with mild bolt ons and all I am running are the 24lbs'ers and it runs great so I figured for now with it being completely stock I could get away with the 58 psi reg and the stock injectors. I actually used the injectors off the pt but I think they are the same.

On another note, there are some key peices of info I need to fill you guys in on before this thread is finished. I plan to edit the first post with all the required info for this swap. I am going to perform the same swap in my rt as well and I am going to try a different route just to see what changes. So far I think finding a complete pt motor and haveing access to a 1st gen dohc parts car is the best route.

Once I get some time I will do all of this....thanks for all of your input guys and gals.

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:11 am

From ACRMAN on the .org:

ACRMAN wrote:When they changed the neon's fuel pressure from 49 psi (1995-2000) to 58 psi for the 2001 model year, they also changed the injectors to a lower flow rate to keep everything where it needed to be. I just found out about the injector flow rate change a few weeks ago, when I tried to run 2001 injectors in a 1995 neon. Since your car already has the 58 psi regulator, it would be good to start with the prior stock "19 pound" injectors and see where you go from there. I can't see how a stock 2.4L would need a 58 psi regulator AND 24# injectors...

Be interesting to see what the difference is at a dyno--just changing injectors from 19# to 24#.

Edit:
Also, can you explain the reasoning behind the injector moving? And what TB are you using? 1st gen I'd assume....?

newlitemotorist · Post by **newlitemotorist** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:55 am

Mat wrote:From ACRMAN on the .org:
ACRMAN wrote:When they changed the neon's fuel pressure from 49 psi (1995-2000) to 58 psi for the 2001 model year, they also changed the injectors to a lower flow rate to keep everything where it needed to be. I just found out about the injector flow rate change a few weeks ago, when I tried to run 2001 injectors in a 1995 neon. Since your car already has the 58 psi regulator, it would be good to start with the prior stock "19 pound" injectors and see where you go from there. I can't see how a stock 2.4L would need a 58 psi regulator AND 24# injectors...
Be interesting to see what the difference is at a dyno--just changing injectors from 19# to 24#.

Edit:
Also, can you explain the reasoning behind the injector moving? And what TB are you using? 1st gen I'd assume....?

This is my take on it......if im wrong someone please correct me!

The crank triggering system is 180* out on the 2.4 so the computer thinks the engine is on the exhaust stroke when it is actually on the intake stroke on any given cylinder. Its all about the machined crank trigger on the crank shaft. The computer uses this wheel to know when to fire the coils and the injectors. Thats why you have to switch the outer two wires on the coil plug (wasted spark system, your just flopping when 1/4 and 2/3 get spark) and why you have to move the injectors over one...reversing everything. There is actually a revised order to set the injector plugs at but we just moved them over to the right one to get it running....although its not optimal, its proven and its running fine.

I am using a second gen throttle body. I cut the kneck off the first gen intake and fit the bellows tube onto the opening with some rtv and a good clamp. Worked well and appears stockish. I would still prefer to run an srt intake mani but those are too expensive for what they do....and they are not optimal for n/a.

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:25 pm

no pics/ vids of this thing put in and running!!!!

newlitemotorist · Post by **newlitemotorist** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:54 pm

Mat wrote:From ACRMAN on the .org:
ACRMAN wrote:When they changed the neon's fuel pressure from 49 psi (1995-2000) to 58 psi for the 2001 model year, they also changed the injectors to a lower flow rate to keep everything where it needed to be. I just found out about the injector flow rate change a few weeks ago, when I tried to run 2001 injectors in a 1995 neon. Since your car already has the 58 psi regulator, it would be good to start with the prior stock "19 pound" injectors and see where you go from there. I can't see how a stock 2.4L would need a 58 psi regulator AND 24# injectors...
Be interesting to see what the difference is at a dyno--just changing injectors from 19# to 24#.

Edit:
Also, can you explain the reasoning behind the injector moving? And what TB are you using? 1st gen I'd assume....?

The 1st gen injectors are in and staying in! Made a noticeable difference. Car runs smoother and seems to just plain run better. Good call Mat!!! Thanks for the heads up. One more thing to add to the list.

neonslg09 · Post by **neonslg09** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:59 pm

How about a video WOT run

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:44 pm

newlitemotorist wrote:
Mat wrote: Edit:
Also, can you explain the reasoning behind the injector moving? And what TB are you using? 1st gen I'd assume....?
The computer uses this wheel to know when to fire the coils and the injectors. Thats why you have to switch the outer two wires on the coil plug (wasted spark system, your just flopping when 1/4 and 2/3 get spark) and why you have to move the injectors over one...reversing everything.

Did you do any PCM pinout changes? Or are you saying that moving injectors and plug wires accomplishes the same thing?

EDIT: Also, it occurs to me that just flipping the coil pack around 180* and keeping the stock coil-to-cylinder routes will do the same thing and look stock.

I am using a second gen throttle body. I cut the kneck off the first gen intake and fit the bellows tube onto the opening with some rtv and a good clamp. Worked well and appears stockish. I would still prefer to run an srt intake mani but those are too expensive for what they do....and they are not optimal for n/a.

Any reason why you couldn't use a 1st gen TB? I know there were sensor plug changes in '00, but I thought the sensors themselves were essentially the same.
It's been a long time since I heard about anybody using a no-neck IM with a hose. LOL!

The 1st gen injectors are in and staying in! Made a noticeable difference. Car runs smoother and seems to just plain run better. Good call Mat!!! Thanks for the heads up. One more thing to add to the list.

Happy to help, Sir! Just keep the project log goodness coming!

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:04 am

bump from the grave: man you fell off the face of the earth wats up with the acr, any vids or pics??

lol

newlitemotorist · Post by **newlitemotorist** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:28 pm

I am sorry guys...I got really busy but the acr is running like a top. I wound up putting a first gen throttle plate in the throttle body and it helped out more than the afx-r so I am thinking this engine might be starved for air so i am going to try and get 5.0 tb to see if that helps.

As soon as I get time guys, I promise I will get some more info up and a vid. Ill even let you know what belt you have to use for ps without ac.

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:45 am

good to hear your alive i thought you might have died or something lol, its all good

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:49 am

where the hell are the pics/video?

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:12 pm

I read through Arthur's posts on .org--he made a point of really knife-edging his throttle plates to improve velocity and response.

neonslg09 · Post by **neonslg09** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:41 am

No pics. No videos. I'm disappointed

srtjesse · Post by **srtjesse** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:20 am

neonslg09 wrote:No pics. No videos. I'm disappointed

tsk tsk me too

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:27 pm

i cry every night thinking about this thread

2GN.ORG

Newlite's 01' ACR..2.4 I'm back guys!!!

What should i do with the ACR?