Out of Gas - Hurst Equipped

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:55 pm

No file marks on the edges of the ring gaps. The ring is just worn x.x
Cleaned the walls and they still felt a little rough and bumpy >.<


Got the tube out...way easier than I thought.




Now, while I wait to go over my options for a rebuild, I wanna get a few parts that will make installing NOW easier than installing later. Pretty much, with the engine torn apart, I wanna do as much as I can(without spending some big money).

Right now all I can think of are solid motor mounts and booger bushings.
I'm considering Bwoody mounts cause all three are a little less expensive than all three AGP mounts. What's everyone's opinions on Bwoody? I have their catch can, and it's quality is top notch. But I hear so much about AGP motor mounts and so little about Bwoody motor mounts.
When replacing the mounts, do I really need to upgrade my bolts?
MPX sells some hardened bolts that they suggest to use when upgrading to solid mounts...but Bwoody doesn't
So i'm wondering if they're needed for daily driving or if MPX just wants to make a few bucks.


Other than motor mounts and bushings, can anyone suggest other things I may want to swap out before putting the engine back in the car? I just want to do what I can now so I don't have to do it later.
Keep in mind, I'm not really on a budget but I don't exactly have a $1000 sitting around :P
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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Post by LilSparkPlug » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:19 pm

I never upgraded my bolts and never had an issue. Loc-tite is your friend. I have AGP upper and lower and BWoody trans, they're all pretty much the same design (dogbone ones that is) so I don't see why you'd have an issue going with BWoody over AGP.

You could swap out 11ty billion things, I'd do the timing belt/water pump while you have everything out. It's not due until 70k but it couldn't hurt to replace it while you're that far into it.

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:21 pm

Ah! Yes. And considering the internals will be mostly new...a new timing belt would be a great idea! It would be a bitch and a half to have to replace it later.

Should I just go Mopar? Or aftermarket?
Gate's Racing belts look to be cheaper than OEM? O.o
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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bone-yard-racing
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Post by bone-yard-racing » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:09 pm

Ive broken 3 bolts in my SRT the stock 10.9, modern's 12.9, and, a second 12.9 I bought from Grainger. I now have a 12.9 I bought at my local Ace hardware that has lasted all auto-x season without issue.

I would do timing belt and water pump Modern's kits are great. If you need new internals I would look at one of their rebuild kits. Also remove the balance shafts and there is no better time to do a 3" o2 housing.
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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:14 am

Remove the balance shafts?
Don't I need those for balancing? O:


I doubt i'll spend the $90 on an o2 housing.
Seems like a waste of money for a very minimal gain in performance, IMO.
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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Post by Midnight_Rider » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:26 am

DetergentCandy wrote:Should I just go Mopar? Or aftermarket?
Good thing that you didn't ask just me about this- you already know what I would say. :roll:
Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon 'til It Dies" Club #10

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:08 pm

Hey Gramps, I have no problem with Mopar!
I'd prefer Mopar all around...but i'm not against getting a better product for cheaper sometimes. :3
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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sidepipe87
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Post by sidepipe87 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:14 pm

I went with the Gates Racing belt because it was cheaper and 300x stronger supposedly.
PM me for your 03+ PCM SKIM/VIN flashing needs. Neon PCMs Plus

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:59 pm

sidepipe87 wrote:I went with the Gates Racing belt because it was cheaper and 300x stronger supposedly.
Supposedly. We'll see! Hope it's true :)







UPDATE: Ordered a short block. Rich got me a deal through a Chrysler licensed re-manufacturer. I just wanna finish this so I can drive my car again XD I'm tired of borrowing my mother's car and bumming rides off coworkers. I should have the block before this weekend so I can start putting things back together.

It probably cost me a bit more than rebuilding it myself...but even MPx wants $1000 for their bottom end rebuild kit. And I would STILL have to bore the cylinders and assemble everything myself.

I'm going to take the head in to a shop to get it cleaned up and in good shape again.

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Post by LilSparkPlug » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:57 pm

First off: KEEP the balance shafts unless you want your bedplate to crack. They're not actually for balancing but rather for NVH (noise/vibration and harshness) without them you will have more vibration in that area and over time the bedplate will crack. I did months of research on it...and decided I like my bedplate too much to remove them. Almost everyone who has removed them deals with a cracked bedplate at some point. 8/10 people.

Second: I have a Gates belt and love it, been in since 08 without issue, it's just not blue anymore.

Third: Go with OEM tensioners only, the aftermarket ones suck, I have a DCR billet and it's annoying as hell.

Fourth: If you want upgraded bolts, get them, I personally don't like most anything Modern makes, their TB is a worthless paperweight. I've run without upgraded bolts for 127,000 miles in my SRT without issue.

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Post by LowNSlow » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:59 pm

x2 on keeping the balance shafts
-John


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Post by theColonel » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:37 pm

LilSparkPlug wrote: .......
Fourth: If you want upgraded bolts, get them, I personally don't like most anything Modern makes, their TB is a worthless paperweight. I've run without upgraded bolts for 127,000 miles in my SRT without issue.
I'm interested in your opinion about the remanufactured short block (in case I ever have engine problems) ... I'm no mechanic, and my car currently has 139, XXX miles
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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:52 pm

LilSparkPlug wrote:First off: KEEP the balance shafts unless you want your bedplate to crack. They're not actually for balancing but rather for NVH (noise/vibration and harshness) without them you will have more vibration in that area and over time the bedplate will crack. I did months of research on it...and decided I like my bedplate too much to remove them. Almost everyone who has removed them deals with a cracked bedplate at some point. 8/10 people.

Second: I have a Gates belt and love it, been in since 08 without issue, it's just not blue anymore.

Third: Go with OEM tensioners only, the aftermarket ones suck, I have a DCR billet and it's annoying as hell.

Fourth: If you want upgraded bolts, get them, I personally don't like most anything Modern makes, their TB is a worthless paperweight. I've run without upgraded bolts for 127,000 miles in my SRT without issue.
LowNSlow wrote:x2 on keeping the balance shafts
:thumbup: Thanks! Excellent info. Will be getting a Gate's belt. Not touching my balance shafts(I never considered removing them in the first place). But good to know it's a dumb idea if you do remove it :P





And it looks like i'll be cleaning the head myself. I'd rather save the couple hundred bucks it would cost me to have a shop do it. Especially since i'm putting money into a short block >.<

Can I sandblast the head? My father has a blasting cabinet that would make cleaning it an easy job.
Or should I stick with hand cleaning? Like, scotch bright/brillo pad and carb cleaner?

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Post by LilSparkPlug » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:21 pm

theColonel wrote:
LilSparkPlug wrote: .......
Fourth: If you want upgraded bolts, get them, I personally don't like most anything Modern makes, their TB is a worthless paperweight. I've run without upgraded bolts for 127,000 miles in my SRT without issue.
I'm interested in your opinion about the remanufactured short block (in case I ever have engine problems) ... I'm no mechanic, and my car currently has 139, XXX miles
In most cases many engine builders (even those that just do stock rebuilds) prefer a block that has been "worn in" if you will. If the block is salvageable then by all means build the one you have, hone/bore it and call it a day. However, if it's not salvageable there is nothing wrong with a reman block, many come with warranties.

I would take the head to a shop still, any cleaning you could do won't compare to a hot tanking. Around here to clean and inspect would cost under $200.

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Post by Lantern04rt » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:37 pm

Totally agree with crystal don't skimp on your head man the little bit you may save won't be worth it you won't get it as clean as a hot tank and since you are going with a new bottom end it would be a shame not to have a clean head to go with it.Also sandblasting is bad idea for the internals of a head sand can get stuck in places you don't want it sandblasting is really only good for the outside of the head with the ports etc covered in tape.
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Post by LilSparkPlug » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:44 pm

I forgot to mention the horror of sandblasting it....thanks Lantern!

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Post by bone-yard-racing » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:21 pm

Dont sandblast anything that goes inside the engine!

If you cant clean the head you shouldnt be inside an engine IMHO buy a gallon of parts cleaner at the auto parts store, a brush, and, a pan and get to it. You'll learn something by pushing your comfort level.
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Post by DetergentCandy » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:33 am

Werd.
I told Rich how much the shop wanted to hot tank the head and he almost laughed.
He said he's going to talk to the shop tomorrow and get me a better price. I guess he's done a lot of work with the owner in the past.
So I guess i'll be letting the pros clean the head afterall! :thumbup:


In my case, the block is very salvageable. I just don't have the time/energy to deal with getting all the right parts back together and then reassembling it myself. I need my car a month ago.
I'll have a new block before the weekend. Head should be cleaned by then too. Then I can start the long process of putting everything back the way I found it O_O
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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bone-yard-racing
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Post by bone-yard-racing » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:34 pm

Good luck just go by the FSM (you can download it on SRTforums) and have a good 1/2" and 3/8" torque wrech handy. Maybe order a set of ARP head studs just some extra insurance
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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:50 pm

I don't think I wanna spend the money on the head studs. Was thinking of just buying a new set of OEM bolts. I HOPEFULLY won't have to pull the head again anytime soon :P


Rich came over this morning and took my head.
He cleaned it up and said i'm good to go :D
He just kinda...did it for me.
Said the valves are in great shape. Guides look good. So i'm all set!
I wish he had replaced the valve seals while he was at it...but I wasn't expecting him to do any of that. Otherwise I would have told him about the box of seals in my trunk XD
I may just do the seals myself to be extra certain. I have 'em, and it'll only take a couple hours.

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Post by a23dranger » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:13 pm

LilSparkPlug wrote:First off: KEEP the balance shafts unless you want your bedplate to crack. They're not actually for balancing but rather for NVH (noise/vibration and harshness) without them you will have more vibration in that area and over time the bedplate will crack. I did months of research on it...and decided I like my bedplate too much to remove them. Almost everyone who has removed them deals with a cracked bedplate at some point. 8/10 people.

Your the first person ive heard tell someone to keep them or about the bed plate cracking. I see everyone always say remove them. 2.0's dont have them, dsm guys remove them, i removed them in my 1gn swap and a ton others do to. One thing i have heard is removing them and having an udp it can mess up the oil pump. so you choose one or the other.

Not saying your wrong crystal or anything its just the first i heard of it and am curious now on it and want to know more. Like is it a turbo 2.4 thing, all 2.4s, what mods where done to the cars that had failures. how long it took for the plates to crack. ect
96 ranger 5.0,4wd,atx swap, jd lift and more, oem+
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Post by LilSparkPlug » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:08 am

I've truthfully never researched it for any motor other than the turbo'd SRT 2.4L so I cannot speak for them. For some it cracked in a matter of a couple months, for others a matter of years. The main weakness with them is the plastic guides on the chain in the 2.4L motor. When spinning at higher rpms than the factory redline (or staged pcm redline) you put undue stress on them and they shatter causing serious internal damage to the engine.

Many people avoid this by cutting the chain, thus rendering the guides useless. Some others prefer to remove the balance shafts as well in turn enlarging the capacity of the oil pan (but causing more sloshing as well). For those who understand the risks, and know that they will need a new block over time I guess it doesn't matter too much. But for those with a stock/near stock (sub 7k) redline, you'd be set to keep it where it is and save the hassle of cracking it down the line.

Keep in mind there are LOTS of threads on this on SRTForums, not everyone is right and you will find lots of BS in them while reading between the lines to find the factual information. Most all of those who posted to keep them.....are veterans of this engine and very knowledgeable on them. You may deduce an entirely different opinion but it's certainly worth a look. :)

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:01 am

So when I said Rich cleaned the head, I meant he removed the valves to inspect the guides :P He wasn't gonna waste his time cleaning it for me. Can't say I blame him! It was a pain in the ass to remove all that carbon! Even with Scotch Brite and carb cleaner. Carbon build up sucks.

Clean head!
Image
I could probably spent another hour on it if I wanted to.
I think it's good though :3
I'm going to do the valve seals on Friday!


So...while moving it around in the garage, I may or may not have drug the smooth machined surface over something not so smooth O:
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/w/r/i/s/t/s

What do you think the possibility of those scratches causing problems later on are?
They're not deep at all. Maybe......a fraction of a millimeter. Half a millimeter at the deepest points.
Once the head gasket is on and torqued down, will those scratches/indents even be an issue?
Or...should I look into having the surface machined?
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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Post by srtjesse » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:11 am

yes have the head machined those scratches are no bueno
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2004 white dodge neon 2.4 DOHC swapped
2004 red dodge neon srt-4 gone :(
2000 flat black plymouth neon 2.0 DOHC swapped gone :(
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2000 green dodge neon parts car R.I.P

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:57 pm

I'll machine YOU!



Stupid malleable parts...Y U NO FIX YOURSELF
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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Post by srtjesse » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:22 pm

lol
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2004 white dodge neon 2.4 DOHC swapped
2004 red dodge neon srt-4 gone :(
2000 flat black plymouth neon 2.0 DOHC swapped gone :(
2002 silver dodge neon parts car R.I.P
2000 green dodge neon parts car R.I.P

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:35 am

So...water pump and timing belt tensioner are needed? Or should I re-use the ones I have if they feel like they spin freely without any wiggle/play side to side?

Just...trying to put a list together of parts I should replace before putting everything back onto the block.

Right now my list consists of timing belt, serpentine belt and motor mounts XD
I think I should have a bigger list than that.
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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bone-yard-racing
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Post by bone-yard-racing » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:35 am

Get new mopar ones if they fail you get to do all this over again
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srtjesse
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Post by srtjesse » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:20 pm

i have a brand new never used still in the box unopened never seen the light of day never touched an enginge never ben manhandeled unmolested nor seen water or antifreee so basicaly still a virgin srt4 water pump i can let go for cheap also the 2.4 i bought had a littens tentioner and timing belt with about 6k on em let me know and i can make you a good deal on errthang
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2004 white dodge neon 2.4 DOHC swapped
2004 red dodge neon srt-4 gone :(
2000 flat black plymouth neon 2.0 DOHC swapped gone :(
2002 silver dodge neon parts car R.I.P
2000 green dodge neon parts car R.I.P

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DetergentCandy
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Post by DetergentCandy » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:50 pm

If it's an OEM water pump, i'll take it if you can get it shipped out asap! :D PM sent

I'm going to go Gate's racing belt and OEM tensioner though. Ordering today!
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


LilSparkPlug wrote:Mmmm beefy :rofl:

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