D.J. ºº

[occasional demons]

So, back to these two items.

IMG_20191229_164439830[1] by occasional demons, on Flickr

Just thought I would do a little more documentation for anyone crazy enough, or stupid enough to go through with this.


This is where they are on the inside of the car, and how they relate to swapping clutch actuation systems.

Cable clutch wire harness support bracket:
IMG_20200119_125739125 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Hydro clutch wire harness support bracket:

It uses the master cylinder studs to attach, versus the welded on stud that the cable set up uses.
IMG_20200119_125817955 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Back to the firewall difference: I was correct in that the depth is different where the master cylinder attaches.

IMG_20200119_143418494 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Those are just the screws I used to attach the cutout to the pedal assembly.

I had to cut the wire harness bracket stud off to get the cutout to go flush against the firewall.

View from the outside:
IMG_20200119_143546126 by occasional demons, on Flickr


Looking at these pictures, I am going to have to come up with a better color than black for the engine bay.

[occasional demons]

Like an old teacher once said: "Don't let Fear and Common Sense get in your way".


So a jig saw, 3" cutoff wheel, and a dremel later, working in a 30º F garage....



.










.













.







.























IMG_20200119_151107887 by occasional demons, on Flickr


Ain't no going back now....

[sidepipe87]

Wow, I completely forgot that you bought the shell of the Dark Jewel. Glad to see it went to a good home. That 01+ firewall project sure is fun... are you going to be welding that donor piece in there I assume?

[occasional demons]

Either weld or rivet.

Riveting won't burn the paint off between the layers, so once it is painted and sealed, there shouldn't be any rust forming between them.

I'll likely use stainless steel pop rivets, so they won't loosen like aluminum ones eventually will.

It doesn't have to be perfect as far as looks, as you can barely see that area with everything in place. But that doesn't mean I am just going to scab it in there and leave it.

The pedal frame bolts to the top of the bulkhead on the plenum area, along with the firewall, so it isn't 100% firewall taking the stress. I am not too worried about the firewall flexing. Even with the hole in it, it is pretty difficult to get it to move.

Besides, even if it does show some deflection after riveting, it can still be welded afterwards, if it comes to that.

[occasional demons]

So I was looking into the wiring differences, and while the dash harness has more options than the '01 did, the under hood harnesses are exactly the same, except for the ATX/MTX difference. Well I should say the stub that was left in the '00. It was cut off about a foot from the firewall pass through. But the connector pin outs are the same. The ATX/MTX difference is independent of the C104/C103 under hood to dash connectors. Those wires are passed through separately to different connectors, primarily directly to the brake light switch, etc.

I find it odd that for instance, that the '00 came equipped with foglights, but the connector is not pinned/wired from the firewall forward. I doubt Chris went to the trouble of pulling it all apart to remove the wire, and tape it all up exactly how it came from the factory. You can tell the wire harness tape has never been disturbed. The fog light MFS was still bolted to the steering column.

I can always rob the wire pins/leads from the cut off 2000 harness to make the pinouts match the dash harness.

Overall, there isn't too much I'll have to do to make it plug and play, since the '01 under hood basically matches the '00. If I were to use the '01 dash harness, it would be a nightmare to regain all the features, so I am glad that the wire harness in the dash and body are still there. I still have to figure out the hood ajar switch as to where it comes through.

I picked up an RKE with FOB from eBay, so hopefully I will have all that comes with that. It will save me from HAVING to wire in the trunk release. I may still wire in one, so the key FOB isn't the only way to open it without the key.

[occasional demons]

I have decided that riveting it in place isn't feasible, as the formed shape is way too complicated to deal with.

Soooo, I dug out my old Miller Cricket Xl welder. It has been sitting for probably over 15 years. The wire feed motor assy wasn't moving so well, and was making some nasty squalling noises. So I tore it apart, sprayed some Deep Creep into the gearbox, and cleaned/lubed as needed everything else inside of it.

I got it back together, and it seems to be running like new again.

I got a new welding helmet yesterday, since my old one with the teenie little viewing lense was nowhere to be found. No great loss. The new one is auto darkening, so it is much better than having to position the weld tip where you need it, flip the helmet down, and then strike an arc so you can see what's going on. And it doesn't weigh a ton, like the old helmet did.

Hopefully, I'll have some neon pictures tomorrow...

Being a flux welder, it won't be pretty. But that's what grinders and wire wheel attachments are for....

[occasional demons]

The cutout:


The patch:
IMG_20200202_160150524 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200202_164929363 by occasional demons, on Flickr


Outside
IMG_20200202_160000841 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200202_163535686 by occasional demons, on Flickr


I said it wasn't going to be pretty.

I have a wire wheel on the way to clean it up better. That and some body filler should improve the looks, even though it is barely visible with everything bolted in place.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

If it works it works! Probably could put a layer of paint to it too if you wanted.

[occasional demons]

Paint will certainly be applied, since I am not a fan of the black paint that the rest of the engine bay is painted...

Given how much the bare steel on the dash frame and steering column rusts, the inside will get a coat of paint too.

The downside of Deep Amethyst, is there aren't any purples that come close to matching, in rattle cans, and the color matched cans are about $40 for a base coat/clear coat set.

Might be better off buying a gallon and a spray gun, and using the engine bay for practice. But an air compressor would have to happen first. I don't think my portable 12 volt Viair unit would cut it.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

I figured it would be painted. Crazy how much it would be to get a color matched can with clear would be. Yeah I am not sure what size air compressor you would need to utilize a spray gun. You would need the proper personal protective equipment too.

[occasional demons]

Probably $600 to $800 for a decent air compressor, another $100 to $200 for a good paint gun, and supporting air drier, etc, and I have no idea what PPE would cost. Then I would have to build a temporary spray booth. The rattle cans would be cheaper, but IDK how good the clear is, not really having any real hardener. You only have so long to use paint once hardener is added, but without it, it doesn't hold up well to weather or sunlight.

I use a box fan and furnace filters when using rattle cans, mainly to suck up/trap the overspray when I have to paint small things in my garage. Otherwise it settles in every corner.

I avoid painting when it is too cold to blow the fumes out the door. I'll open one door, and set up the fan and stuff being painted there, and then open the other door to bring in fresh air, as the fumes get pushed out.

I did it with the doors shut once, and despite it just being a small piece, the fumes were still strong in there the next day. I had to air it out for a bit so I could work in there. I mistakenly figured they would dissipate. And that was before I replaced the door seals on the overhead doors. It is a lot more air tight now. Oh well, if there were any mice in there, they were probably hating life.

[occasional demons]

So I picked up an SRT cluster from eBay for $39.00 shipped. Mostly because I like the appearance a lot better than the white face clusters. I actually would prefer the black clusters like the base neons have, but those do not have a tach. I believe the export clusters are black, but I really don't feel like shelling out the $$$ for one of those.

So I clean the layer of dust and dirt off it, plug it into my 12 volt power supply and cluster connector, and do the needle sweep test. Tachometer needle bounces all over. Crap.


Meh for what I paid, I figure I would just rob the stepper motor from the 1st gen cluster I pulled from our '96.

Okay, fine swap the needle motors over, and the needle won't stay on. The pre 2000 needle spindles are smaller in diameter. So I put the '96 needle on there, just to see how the stepper motor reacts. It did the needle sweep test, but moved a lot slower. So much for that.

I figured if I buy another regular 2gn cluster, I'll have as much in it as a higher priced SRT cluster. Even though those had some pieces broken on the lens or body.

I contacted the seller, and even though they state no returns, they offered to ship me another free of charge. Just return the defective one.

Cool. So I got the replacement yesterday, plugged it in, and it works great. I asked the seller if the return address on the box was the correct address to ship it to, and they told me to just keep it, :yes: or toss it.

They must have a bunch of them to sell for about half of what most nice looking clusters are going for. But they are obviously not stored with much regard. At least judging by the layer of dust, they are stored face up, which is what the FSM states.

The lenses are pretty scratched up, from probably other clusters being stacked on top.

I bought a Rustoleum headlight repair kit for $15, which did an excellent job of taking out the scratches, and the lens looks like new now.

The stepper motors that they use, are not available separately, there are no part numbers on them, and I couldn't even find anything that was both similar in appearance, and has the 4 pin connector style in the back. Anything that looks close connects in the front.

Mileage on the keeper is only ~72000ish.

The first one had 188,899 miles. Possibly why the tach motor was worn out. It has no resistance, just flops from one side of the needle rest to the other.

It bounces, because the stepper motor has to keep correcting the over travel.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

Nice you got another one that works free of charge. Spent some time getting the bad one to work. WAAAYYYY less mileage on the other one they sent you.

[occasional demons]

Not too much time swapping the needle motors. At least I learned a little about the guts of a cluster.

I could have taken a stepper motor from my R/T cluster, but I didn't really want to mess with it. R/T clusters seem to be more rare than SRT clusters. You can usually find an SRT cluster for sale, but not too often does a 140 MPH unit pop up.

It is sort of depressing they made the R/T clusters look just like the run of the mill white face units, but with an extra 20 MPH.

I only snagged it way back then, because the price was right, and I didn't have a tach cluster.

The thing I dislike about the white face clusters is the numbers being back lit, when it's dusk, not quite dark, the back light makes the numbers blend in with the white face.

They are nice and crisp on the black face clusters.

I did put the SRT lens onto the R/T cluster, and the silver rings do improve the looks a little.

Looking through the clusters in the parts catalog, to see if they sold the stepper motors separate, (they don't), they did have an export 280 KPH unit. 280 KPH = 174 MPH.

Of course it is no longer available. The only SRT cluster still available was the 2003 SRT. For $450 ish. Not sure why the 2004/2005 SRT clusters are different. Those are disco'ed.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

Yeah I wouldn't want a white face cluster. I don't think they look that good honestly. Yeah would be crazy to have a 280kmh export cluster in a Neon hahaha. Weird the 03 is available new and not the 04-05. Different part numbers? Or lumped them together since they are the same? I wonder what all is different between them? $450 is steep but honestly makes sense if someone wanted a new unit. They are going to have to pay for it.

[occasional demons]

Did a little work on it today, removing the floor pan plugs. If you really care about keeping a car in good shape, you will punch those POS's out and replace them with something else.

The view from in the car:
IMG_20200307_173608006 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200307_173616705 by occasional demons, on Flickr

The view from below:
IMG_20200307_173830709 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200307_173856026 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Too bad they didn't seal them as well as they do on the inside. But then the floorpan wouldn't rot out if they did that. And with all the goo they cover them with on the inside, it hides the rust until it is too late.

I pulled the rear crash bar, which was crushed on the passenger corner, so I can fix this minor damage:
IMG_20200307_173934716 by occasional demons, on Flickr

I picked up an ACR SRT-4 rear sway, which from what I can tell is just an R/T rear sway bar. 19mm vs the standard SRT 17mm. The FAQ on here shows that the ACR SRT-4 rear didn't have a PN listed. Basically the parts catalog lists sway bars by suspension types, more so than trim levels. The seller said the person he got it from said it came from an ACR SRT-4. I had him send me pics of the diameter before I bought it, so both of us knew for sure what it was.

I didn't need another 17mm rear sway. I will probably put the 17mm one on the '99. I couldn't tell any real difference putting the 15mm one from my '01 on the '99. It didn't have any rear sway bar before that.

[thomas_w]

I am starting to see the same thing on my drain plug. I have a lot of undercoating underneath but it is still starting to rust even with me trying my best to keep it from happening.

[occasional demons]

They are just bare mild steel, so once they begin to rust, there is no stopping it. And then it spreads to the surrounding metal. Probably where the paint is compromised by pushing them in at the factory.

But if they covered them like they do on the interior, where they don't see near the elements they do on the undercarriage, they would likely last forever. It's not like they just easily pop out to drain accumulated water anyways. That's what they make shop vacs for. (As long as it is made for wet/dry use)

[MyNeonSaysHi]

Wow I am going to check my plugs out underneath. Another thing for midnight_rider to worry about

[occasional demons]

I took some time today and cleaned the carpeting, trunk liner and headliner I pulled out of the '01.

Not sure how long the headliner fabric is going to stay intact though. I may just peel it off and redo it with something different. I don't want to go to the trouble needed to pull it back out if it begins to sag. I can't say I am a fan of the headliner cloth resting on my head, not to mention the thing flapping as you drive, like some of the cars you see going down the road.

Sitting in the garage for the past 5 years, the carpet began to get some minor mold developing being in the dark most of the time, and what moisture it could scrounge. Probably from the moisture that accumulated in the padding, as I had driven the car in the winter before parking it.

I will drag it all back out tomorrow so it can sit in the sunshine all day to help dry it out. The sunlight will also help kill any mold that may be remaining.

Maybe I'll take some pics tomorrow.

[occasional demons]

Carpet pictures....

IMG_20200404_140700247 by occasional demons, on Flickr

I may do another round with a regular carpet shampoo machine, to try to get some of the rust stains out of the tunk liner.

IMG_20200404_151325969 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200404_151437719 by occasional demons, on Flickr


And some more fun.

Noticed some swelling in the tire well, and got out the hammer and did a bit of pounding, revealing a little cancer.

IMG_20200404_140614080 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200404_144152743 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200404_143648660 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200404_145733233 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Not sure what purpose those two little humps served, but they will most likely not be duplicated...

I'll have to get some sheet metal, to patch it with, and hopefully tomorrow I can get the rust cleaned up on the rear crossmember braces and get a few coats of paint on it, Then once I get some sheet metal, I will rivet it all back together.

Once I am done making dust, I can begin to get the interior back together, and free up some space in my garage. A car interior takes up a shit load of space.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

You got all the fabric out. Got some rust out too. Attention 2 detail

[occasional demons]

Fabric is donated from my 2001, as the 2000 was gutted as Chris sold off all the custom interior pieces.

I cleaned up the rust today, but I don't have any brake clean on hand to degrease the metal, as i used cutting fluid to help out the Harbor Freight spot weld cutter. So painting it will have to wait until I get some brake clean.

I may stop on my way home from work tomorrow to get that.

[AdioSS]

About how much time would you guesstimate it would take someone who hasn’t pulled interior parts from a neon before to take out the fabric parts from a 20yr old car that probably has never had any of the interior pulled out before? The previous owners of my car smoked & one of the Windows never stayed rolled up, so the inside of the car doesn’t smell the best & needs a good cleaning. Also, I keep finding shards of glass in the carpet, so I want to get that out.

[occasional demons]

Getting the carpet out, probably 3 hours tops, if everything goes well. The seats will need unbolted, the center console has to come out, and maybe some other little things. The headliner may take time being some careful not to break any of the A, B and C pillar pieces to remove it.

But cleaning that is risky, as the material is very thin, and the adhesive may not hold up well, so it may eventually begin sagging.

If you don't care about the headliner, it could be left out, but I would put some sort of insulating mat glued to the roof, otherwise it could get pretty toasty in the summer, and cold in the winter. Might have frost forming and then dripping down as the heater warms the interior. Or just remove the cloth and foam, and put the headliner back in.

Totally gutting the interior and leaving it that way is fine for a race car,but a daily, it can be a lot louder inside, and like I said, keeping the temps comfortable might be tough. while the door panels, carpet and headliner are not the best insulation, they do a lot better than nothing, and do absorb more sound than you think.

I drove my XJ around for a while without the interior in it. It was surprisingly loud. It lost a fair amount of rear wheel traction too, from the weight loss, but overall it was not worth it. I like to be able to hear my music, and not have the sound quality diminished.

I added sound deadening to my '99 neon, and now it rides quieter than my '01 ever did. Not bad for something that had poorer quality door and window seals.

I will likely add a bit of insulation to this car too. It is nice not to have to blast the volume to hear the radio at 65/70 mph.

[occasional demons]

The view from underneath the cut outs.

IMG_20200405_133928812 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Kind of surprised how much the lateral links weathered sitting outside. Probably a year's worth, but that is the car just sitting on some big 2 x 6 constructed skids. All that will be removed anyways, and things cleaned up. It was installed primarily so I could flat tow it home.

Cleaned the rust off.

IMG_20200405_140723763 by occasional demons, on Flickr

Got the patches cut out, formed and holes punched.

IMG_20200408_195340840 by occasional demons, on Flickr
Waiting for the paint to cure up.

IMG_20200408_195644702 by occasional demons, on Flickr


The label from the rivet bag.

IMG_20200408_195835926 by occasional demons, on Flickr

[AdioSS]

I did the racecar daily driver thing when I was younger with my 96 Impala SS. I often drove around without the front passenger seat because the original driver seat broke, so I moved the passenger seat over for a while. Still had room for 3 passengers in the back though. Now my daily is a GMC Sierra that is real nice inside. It also makes about 3 times the power as the Neon because the engine is 3 times bigger. Fuel economy ain’t too shabby considering what it is.

[occasional demons]

I am still sort of curious about those two raised humps.



They have clearance holes beneath them in the fuel tank support brackets, as if a screw or bolt would have passed though.



I mean other than giving moisture a direct path between the floor and the brackets....


Unless they planned on welding a nut in there, to attach something under the car.

[occasional demons]

So I had a brain fart, and forgot how tough stainless steel rivets are to set. My pneumatic rivet gun wasn't having it.

So I had to make a trip to Harbor freight. I was going to get the large manually operated riveter, that has the long handles, but then realized it probably wasn't going to work in the tire well with the sides interfering with the handle movement.

F*ck!

So I ended up $pending more than I intended, and bought this:

IMG_20200412_120336610 by occasional demons, on Flickr

And used up the remaining 3M Structural Adhesive I bought probably 20 years ago for another project. It was still good.

IMG_20200412_120713061 by occasional demons, on Flickr

I mixed it up and spread it around the perimeter and on the braces, then riveted it down. The HF riveter worked like a dream. A Cherry brand riveter of this caliber would have set me back over $600.

IMG_20200412_115731906 by occasional demons, on Flickr

IMG_20200412_120601674 by occasional demons, on Flickr

So basically this repair cost me $150 all together, still cheaper than having an auto body place do a hack job that will rot out again in 3 years.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

Very nice! How much time you think you put into doing all that?