MegaSquirt FAQ

Just install MegaSquirt or some other system that allows you to tune your car or just have a question about tuning and the options available? Feel free to ask it here.
Post Reply
User avatar
turbodudey
2GN Member
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

MegaSquirt FAQ

Post by turbodudey » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:10 am

Since we actually have a Tuning / MS forum now :thumbright: I though it would be a good idea to have some basic info about MS.

So here we go:

1. What is MegaSquirt?

MS is a full standalone fuel and spark controller. MS can completely replace your stock PCM, however you will need additional relays and wiring etc. to power all of your accessories. For this reason most people used the stock PCM to power all the accessories and sensors, while MS takes over engine control.

2. Where can I get one?

A list of all current vendors can be found here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mintro.htm#group. You can buy the MS unit prebuilt, or get an unassembled kit and do it yourself. It is not hard to assemble the MS, even if you have not had much experience with electronics. If you are patient, not afraid to learn, and willing to do a little (or a lot :D ) research, then you have what it takes to build and install a MegaSquirt system.

3. Ok great. Where do I start?

First things first. Read the FAQ on MSefi.com found here: http://www.megamanual.com/

Then read through the MegaManual. This contains all the details of how the MS works, assembly instructions, setup and install guidlines, tuning, wiring... it's all here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtabcon.htm

Since most of us 2gners will be using the MSnS-E "extra" code (the only code that will run fuel and spark on Neons), the MSextra manual will also be very informative: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra ... _Index.htm

4. Specifically, what do I need to run MS on my Neon?

Option A: Unassembled kit (recommend diy-autotune.com)

- MS1 v3.0 pcb
- Two VB921 high current ignition coil drivers (most kits come with one VB921 included, so you may just need to get one additional transistor)
- GM IAT and CLT sensors
- Wiring harness
- Stimulator (for powering and testing your MS before hooking it up to your car)

Option B: Prebuilt unit (recommend diy-autotune.com)

Prebuilt unit will need to be modified to read the Neon crank trigger. You can either do the mods yourself as described in the megamanual (linked above), or if you'd rather not do it yourself, check out neonsquirt.com for more info.

You will still need:

- GM IAT and CLT sensors
- Wiring Harness
- Stimulator (optional)

5. Firmware

The latest version of MSnS-E firmware can be downloaded here: http://megasquirt.sf.net/extra/ by clicking "download latest". This link also cantains all the info about the features of the "Extra" code and info about the Neon Crank Decoder, as well as hardward modifications required to control the coilpack. (the site says for pre NGC neons only, but MS will work on NGC cars and read the NGC crank trigger wheel)

The NGC code can be downloaded here:
http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/029v_ngc3.zip

6. Installation

The MS ECU must be located in the passenger compartment of your Neon. It is not designed to withstand under-hood temperatures or be exposed to the weather, moisture, etc.

So, this means running your wiring harness through the firewall. This can be kind of a pain in the butt. :) I removed my entire dash assembly to gain easy access to the firewall. (please refer to your FSM for this procedure. don't have a FSM? look here http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8E.pdf)

Once your harness in ran through the firewall, you can procede to hook up all your inputs/outputs. All of the signals that you will need to tap into are available at the main PCM plugs. For pinouts of the PCM plugs C1 and C2 look here: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8W.pdf

Obviously the GM IAT sensor needs to be exposed to the intake air charge, and an easy place to mount the CLT sensor is to tee into the heater hose, or tee off the head where the stock CLT sensor is located.
Last edited by turbodudey on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:07 am, edited 6 times in total.
~Dudeck

'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4

OB
Former Moderator
Posts: 9686
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:38 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA

Post by OB » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:15 am

Cool beans, im glad this is finally getting out there. I havent made up my mind but i plan on running MS sometime in the future. I want to get it asap but there simply isnt enough info out there for the NGC users. I cant get any straight answers on whether there is a map written out for my car. Damn ignition trigger!
-Derek

|Donate to 2gn|Feedback || OB's | GozziFab | All Business |


User avatar
turbodudey
2GN Member
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by turbodudey » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:45 am

Here's the link to the SRTforums thread that Boost Junkie started for testing the NGC crand decoder code that he wrote: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239763

And this is the actual code: http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/029t_ngc.zip

I run my MS on an '02 so I haven't really looked into the NGC crank trigger issue. From what I've read though, it sounds like the code is working.
~Dudeck

'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4

User avatar
2001dodgeneonrt
2GN Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 9:29 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by 2001dodgeneonrt » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:48 am

I have a friend that has a 98 R/T SRT swap, NGC code and all that I am installing MS on. Setup is complete and will be hopefully getting her running on Sunday. Technically it ran last Sunday, but like crap. I am trying to keep everyone updated on SRT forums.
Function Before Form...

User avatar
03sxt
Former Jr. Admin
Posts: 11389
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 10:53 am
Location: Conneaut, Ohio
Contact:

Post by 03sxt » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:08 am

Stickied.

Helpful info! :thumbup:

quicksilvr
Former Moderator
Posts: 3229
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Contact:

Post by quicksilvr » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:40 pm

Concerning vendor's, if you're wanting to purchase a prebuilt unit, I would highly recommend http://www.rs-autosport.net. Steve is highly active in the MS scene on neons.org, and I've heard nothing but great things about the business, and the work they do.
-Dave
Image
2001 Dodge Neon R/T

Kevin_GP
2GN Member
Posts: 1263
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:46 am
Location: Miami

Post by Kevin_GP » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:53 pm

I was going to buy a prebuilt one from RS motorsports, maybe someone can get a list of bare minimal things to order and what to order, that could be helpfull?

quicksilvr
Former Moderator
Posts: 3229
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Contact:

Post by quicksilvr » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:02 pm

Kevin_GP wrote:I was going to buy a prebuilt one from RS motorsports, maybe someone can get a list of bare minimal things to order and what to order, that could be helpfull?
If you buy one from RS-Autosport, in the options when buying the "ECU" select:

-Neon/420A (MS-1 only) +$35
-Latest stable release of MS n Spark Extra
-3 or 4 bar MAP...up to you
-If you want to run a seperate tack off of MS, then get the tach output (you don't need this if you're simply keeping your stock tach)
-Standard MS-1 controller

Since I haven't bought a premade one yet, I'm not sure if it comes with the extra VB921 because it's already made for a Neon, or not. Might want to contact Steve over on neons.org and just ask him. He pretty good with pm's usually.
-Dave
Image
2001 Dodge Neon R/T

Kevin_GP
2GN Member
Posts: 1263
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:46 am
Location: Miami

Post by Kevin_GP » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:11 pm

Huge :thumbright: . Thank you, Its alittle overwhelming with all the options and what applies to a neon.

quicksilvr
Former Moderator
Posts: 3229
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Contact:

Post by quicksilvr » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:12 pm

Just found out the MS will come with both VB921's if you get it from RS-Autosport, and specify the Neon/420A. Josh has continued revising the FAQ above...so I'll stop trying to answer questions down here. :lol:
-Dave
Image
2001 Dodge Neon R/T

User avatar
kevo
2GN Member
Posts: 1282
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:00 am

Post by kevo » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:37 pm

btw, the ngc firmware has only been tested on srt-4's not a single standard neon has been tested yet.

quicksilvr
Former Moderator
Posts: 3229
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Contact:

Post by quicksilvr » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:57 pm

All the more reason to get an NGC car running it. "boost junkie" can only modify/fix the code if he has something to fix. I think it's pretty close as is...let's get someone using it!
-Dave
Image
2001 Dodge Neon R/T

User avatar
turbodudey
2GN Member
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by turbodudey » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:11 pm

The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.

But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
~Dudeck

'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4

OB
Former Moderator
Posts: 9686
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:38 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA

Post by OB » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:43 am

im seriously thinking about getting it and setting it up on my 2.0, and just retune it later if I end up swapping to the srt motor. I have a feeling after tuning NA with MS and maybe throwing a cam and some other things in, Ill be very happy with the sohc motor. I just dont feel like there's enough info. Im learning a lot about EMS at school right now and im also getting fairly good at electrical. Dont know if im ready for such a big project tho.
-Derek

|Donate to 2gn|Feedback || OB's | GozziFab | All Business |


User avatar
kevo
2GN Member
Posts: 1282
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:00 am

Post by kevo » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:35 pm

turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.

But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.

orangeblastsxt wrote:im seriously thinking about getting it and setting it up on my 2.0, and just retune it later if I end up swapping to the srt motor. I have a feeling after tuning NA with MS and maybe throwing a cam and some other things in, Ill be very happy with the sohc motor. I just dont feel like there's enough info. Im learning a lot about EMS at school right now and im also getting fairly good at electrical. Dont know if im ready for such a big project tho.
Bosch makes a good book on the fundamental anatomy of electronic engine controlling. Its called Automotive ignition systems.

User avatar
turbodudey
2GN Member
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by turbodudey » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:17 pm

kevo wrote:
turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.

But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.
By "maps" you mean the fuel and spark maps?

The fuel and spark maps are tuned using software (megatune), they don't really have anything to do with the firmware.

What the NGC firmware does for you is allows you to decode the NGC crank trigger so that your MS hardware will function. The tuning software is unaffected.
~Dudeck

'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4

User avatar
kevo
2GN Member
Posts: 1282
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:00 am

Post by kevo » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:41 pm

turbodudey wrote:
kevo wrote:
turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.

But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.
By "maps" you mean the fuel and spark maps?

The fuel and spark maps are tuned using software (megatune), they don't really have anything to do with the firmware.

What the NGC firmware does for you is allows you to decode the NGC crank trigger so that your MS hardware will function. The tuning software is unaffected.
hmm thats interesting. i didnt know that, i figured it was compiled with the actual firmware much like traditional ECU's have. Although i really havent looked at MS at all its nice to know. :)

quicksilvr
Former Moderator
Posts: 3229
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Contact:

Post by quicksilvr » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:44 pm

turbodudey wrote:
kevo wrote:
turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.

But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.
By "maps" you mean the fuel and spark maps?

The fuel and spark maps are tuned using software (megatune), they don't really have anything to do with the firmware.

What the NGC firmware does for you is allows you to decode the NGC crank trigger so that your MS hardware will function. The tuning software is unaffected.

I was going to say the same thing earlier...but then I thought...what if Kevo knows something I don't, or something I missed, and I sound like a complete idiot. :lol: :lol:
-Dave
Image
2001 Dodge Neon R/T

User avatar
INVUJerry
2GN Veteran
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD
Contact:

Post by INVUJerry » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:38 pm

Shit, I might look into a MS for both my neons. Just have to swap the old NGC back for emissions...the 95 just has to run on a treadmill!
Image
So many neons so little time.

esteinmaier
Supporting Vendor
Posts: 3324
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:40 pm

Post by esteinmaier » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:36 pm

kevo wrote:btw, the ngc firmware has only been tested on srt-4's not a single standard neon has been tested yet.
Mine's running.
ASP - First NGC SOHC in the 13s and the 12s. First SOHC neon over 500whp. First NGC Neon on MS.
Winston Churchill wrote:Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.

danman132x
2GN Member
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Crestview, FL

Post by danman132x » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:42 pm

Great info. This stuff is mind boggling though. :scratch: I know if I did it, something is bound to go wrong. I'm pretty good when it comes to following instructions and working with lots of wires, but the amount is crazy. There are so many different versions and options, it's hard to just find a starting point. All I would want it for is to run my stock motor, but to bypass the NGC, raise the rev limit to 7K, and squeeze a few more horses out of the motor.
2003 Dodge Neon R/T

Image

http://myspace.com/danman132x

03silversxt
2GN Member
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:23 pm
Location: Weslaco, TX

Post by 03silversxt » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:10 am

:withstupid:

User avatar
turbodudey
2GN Member
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by turbodudey » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:19 am

danman132x wrote:Great info. This stuff is mind boggling though. :scratch: I know if I did it, something is bound to go wrong. I'm pretty good when it comes to following instructions and working with lots of wires, but the amount is crazy. There are so many different versions and options, it's hard to just find a starting point. All I would want it for is to run my stock motor, but to bypass the NGC, raise the rev limit to 7K, and squeeze a few more horses out of the motor.
There is a lot of info, yes. Best thing to do would just be to start small. Read through the manuals, and if it doesn't makes sense do a little reasearch, then go back and read it again. Once you get familiar with how the system is setup, it's really very straight forward.
~Dudeck

'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4

aksobe
n00b
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:22 pm

thanks

Post by aksobe » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:41 pm

Thanks guys. This post has been so much help I can't thank anyone here enough!

User avatar
SGT BRAD
2GN Member
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:56 pm

Post by SGT BRAD » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:56 am

good lord what have i done. rsautosport is no longer making the neon specific ms anymore so i went ahead and ordered one of the last ones they had in stock. turbodudey be prepared for lots of pms from me once i get this thing wired in. i have no clue what i'm doing!!!
ooh...there's a glimmer of the dream left!!!

yellowpatrol
2GN Member
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:12 pm
Location: Kansas City

Post by yellowpatrol » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:34 am

Oh shit you ordered one too? Which package did you get? You better not have got my 4 BAR one, fool. Just out of curiosity, what was the time of your order?
FEEDBACK
Image
Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

User avatar
SGT BRAD
2GN Member
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:56 pm

Post by SGT BRAD » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:41 am

ummm...i ordered it about an hour ago and yes i did order a 4bar in case i go turbo later.
ooh...there's a glimmer of the dream left!!!

yellowpatrol
2GN Member
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:12 pm
Location: Kansas City

Post by yellowpatrol » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:06 pm

SGT BRAD wrote:ummm...i ordered it about an hour ago and yes i did order a 4bar in case i go turbo later.
haha calm down I was just messing with you. :rockon:
FEEDBACK
Image
Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

OhNoA2.0
2GN Member
Posts: 1329
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:42 am
Location: Newark, DE

Post by OhNoA2.0 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:41 am

Once your harness in ran through the firewall, you can procede to hook up all your inputs/outputs. All of the signals that you will need to tap into are available at the main PCM plugs. For pinouts of the PCM plugs C1 and C2 look here: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8W.pdf 
Does anyone know what page the PCM pinout is on? I can't find it for the life of me. :(
Image
Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000094

User avatar
Danteneon
Former Moderator
Posts: 9591
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: Manassas, VA

Post by Danteneon » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:46 am

I have a sticky in the motor swap section with the PCM pinouts (both NGC and non)

viewtopic.php?t=44196
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...

Image

Post Reply

Return to “Tuning / MegaSquirt”