MegaSquirt FAQ
- turbodudey
- 2GN Member
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MegaSquirt FAQ
Since we actually have a Tuning / MS forum now I though it would be a good idea to have some basic info about MS.
So here we go:
1. What is MegaSquirt?
MS is a full standalone fuel and spark controller. MS can completely replace your stock PCM, however you will need additional relays and wiring etc. to power all of your accessories. For this reason most people used the stock PCM to power all the accessories and sensors, while MS takes over engine control.
2. Where can I get one?
A list of all current vendors can be found here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mintro.htm#group. You can buy the MS unit prebuilt, or get an unassembled kit and do it yourself. It is not hard to assemble the MS, even if you have not had much experience with electronics. If you are patient, not afraid to learn, and willing to do a little (or a lot ) research, then you have what it takes to build and install a MegaSquirt system.
3. Ok great. Where do I start?
First things first. Read the FAQ on MSefi.com found here: http://www.megamanual.com/
Then read through the MegaManual. This contains all the details of how the MS works, assembly instructions, setup and install guidlines, tuning, wiring... it's all here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtabcon.htm
Since most of us 2gners will be using the MSnS-E "extra" code (the only code that will run fuel and spark on Neons), the MSextra manual will also be very informative: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra ... _Index.htm
4. Specifically, what do I need to run MS on my Neon?
Option A: Unassembled kit (recommend diy-autotune.com)
- MS1 v3.0 pcb
- Two VB921 high current ignition coil drivers (most kits come with one VB921 included, so you may just need to get one additional transistor)
- GM IAT and CLT sensors
- Wiring harness
- Stimulator (for powering and testing your MS before hooking it up to your car)
Option B: Prebuilt unit (recommend diy-autotune.com)
Prebuilt unit will need to be modified to read the Neon crank trigger. You can either do the mods yourself as described in the megamanual (linked above), or if you'd rather not do it yourself, check out neonsquirt.com for more info.
You will still need:
- GM IAT and CLT sensors
- Wiring Harness
- Stimulator (optional)
5. Firmware
The latest version of MSnS-E firmware can be downloaded here: http://megasquirt.sf.net/extra/ by clicking "download latest". This link also cantains all the info about the features of the "Extra" code and info about the Neon Crank Decoder, as well as hardward modifications required to control the coilpack. (the site says for pre NGC neons only, but MS will work on NGC cars and read the NGC crank trigger wheel)
The NGC code can be downloaded here:
http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/029v_ngc3.zip
6. Installation
The MS ECU must be located in the passenger compartment of your Neon. It is not designed to withstand under-hood temperatures or be exposed to the weather, moisture, etc.
So, this means running your wiring harness through the firewall. This can be kind of a pain in the butt. I removed my entire dash assembly to gain easy access to the firewall. (please refer to your FSM for this procedure. don't have a FSM? look here http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8E.pdf)
Once your harness in ran through the firewall, you can procede to hook up all your inputs/outputs. All of the signals that you will need to tap into are available at the main PCM plugs. For pinouts of the PCM plugs C1 and C2 look here: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8W.pdf
Obviously the GM IAT sensor needs to be exposed to the intake air charge, and an easy place to mount the CLT sensor is to tee into the heater hose, or tee off the head where the stock CLT sensor is located.
So here we go:
1. What is MegaSquirt?
MS is a full standalone fuel and spark controller. MS can completely replace your stock PCM, however you will need additional relays and wiring etc. to power all of your accessories. For this reason most people used the stock PCM to power all the accessories and sensors, while MS takes over engine control.
2. Where can I get one?
A list of all current vendors can be found here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mintro.htm#group. You can buy the MS unit prebuilt, or get an unassembled kit and do it yourself. It is not hard to assemble the MS, even if you have not had much experience with electronics. If you are patient, not afraid to learn, and willing to do a little (or a lot ) research, then you have what it takes to build and install a MegaSquirt system.
3. Ok great. Where do I start?
First things first. Read the FAQ on MSefi.com found here: http://www.megamanual.com/
Then read through the MegaManual. This contains all the details of how the MS works, assembly instructions, setup and install guidlines, tuning, wiring... it's all here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtabcon.htm
Since most of us 2gners will be using the MSnS-E "extra" code (the only code that will run fuel and spark on Neons), the MSextra manual will also be very informative: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra ... _Index.htm
4. Specifically, what do I need to run MS on my Neon?
Option A: Unassembled kit (recommend diy-autotune.com)
- MS1 v3.0 pcb
- Two VB921 high current ignition coil drivers (most kits come with one VB921 included, so you may just need to get one additional transistor)
- GM IAT and CLT sensors
- Wiring harness
- Stimulator (for powering and testing your MS before hooking it up to your car)
Option B: Prebuilt unit (recommend diy-autotune.com)
Prebuilt unit will need to be modified to read the Neon crank trigger. You can either do the mods yourself as described in the megamanual (linked above), or if you'd rather not do it yourself, check out neonsquirt.com for more info.
You will still need:
- GM IAT and CLT sensors
- Wiring Harness
- Stimulator (optional)
5. Firmware
The latest version of MSnS-E firmware can be downloaded here: http://megasquirt.sf.net/extra/ by clicking "download latest". This link also cantains all the info about the features of the "Extra" code and info about the Neon Crank Decoder, as well as hardward modifications required to control the coilpack. (the site says for pre NGC neons only, but MS will work on NGC cars and read the NGC crank trigger wheel)
The NGC code can be downloaded here:
http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/029v_ngc3.zip
6. Installation
The MS ECU must be located in the passenger compartment of your Neon. It is not designed to withstand under-hood temperatures or be exposed to the weather, moisture, etc.
So, this means running your wiring harness through the firewall. This can be kind of a pain in the butt. I removed my entire dash assembly to gain easy access to the firewall. (please refer to your FSM for this procedure. don't have a FSM? look here http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8E.pdf)
Once your harness in ran through the firewall, you can procede to hook up all your inputs/outputs. All of the signals that you will need to tap into are available at the main PCM plugs. For pinouts of the PCM plugs C1 and C2 look here: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8W.pdf
Obviously the GM IAT sensor needs to be exposed to the intake air charge, and an easy place to mount the CLT sensor is to tee into the heater hose, or tee off the head where the stock CLT sensor is located.
Last edited by turbodudey on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:07 am, edited 6 times in total.
~Josh
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
Cool beans, im glad this is finally getting out there. I havent made up my mind but i plan on running MS sometime in the future. I want to get it asap but there simply isnt enough info out there for the NGC users. I cant get any straight answers on whether there is a map written out for my car. Damn ignition trigger!
-Derek
|Donate to 2gn|Feedback || OB's | GozziFab | All Business |
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- turbodudey
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Here's the link to the SRTforums thread that Boost Junkie started for testing the NGC crand decoder code that he wrote: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239763
And this is the actual code: http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/029t_ngc.zip
I run my MS on an '02 so I haven't really looked into the NGC crank trigger issue. From what I've read though, it sounds like the code is working.
And this is the actual code: http://megasquirt.texasneons.org/029t_ngc.zip
I run my MS on an '02 so I haven't really looked into the NGC crank trigger issue. From what I've read though, it sounds like the code is working.
~Josh
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
- 2001dodgeneonrt
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Concerning vendor's, if you're wanting to purchase a prebuilt unit, I would highly recommend http://www.rs-autosport.net. Steve is highly active in the MS scene on neons.org, and I've heard nothing but great things about the business, and the work they do.
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If you buy one from RS-Autosport, in the options when buying the "ECU" select:Kevin_GP wrote:I was going to buy a prebuilt one from RS motorsports, maybe someone can get a list of bare minimal things to order and what to order, that could be helpfull?
-Neon/420A (MS-1 only) +$35
-Latest stable release of MS n Spark Extra
-3 or 4 bar MAP...up to you
-If you want to run a seperate tack off of MS, then get the tach output (you don't need this if you're simply keeping your stock tach)
-Standard MS-1 controller
Since I haven't bought a premade one yet, I'm not sure if it comes with the extra VB921 because it's already made for a Neon, or not. Might want to contact Steve over on neons.org and just ask him. He pretty good with pm's usually.
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- turbodudey
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im seriously thinking about getting it and setting it up on my 2.0, and just retune it later if I end up swapping to the srt motor. I have a feeling after tuning NA with MS and maybe throwing a cam and some other things in, Ill be very happy with the sohc motor. I just dont feel like there's enough info. Im learning a lot about EMS at school right now and im also getting fairly good at electrical. Dont know if im ready for such a big project tho.
-Derek
|Donate to 2gn|Feedback || OB's | GozziFab | All Business |
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the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.
But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
Bosch makes a good book on the fundamental anatomy of electronic engine controlling. Its called Automotive ignition systems.orangeblastsxt wrote:im seriously thinking about getting it and setting it up on my 2.0, and just retune it later if I end up swapping to the srt motor. I have a feeling after tuning NA with MS and maybe throwing a cam and some other things in, Ill be very happy with the sohc motor. I just dont feel like there's enough info. Im learning a lot about EMS at school right now and im also getting fairly good at electrical. Dont know if im ready for such a big project tho.
- turbodudey
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By "maps" you mean the fuel and spark maps?kevo wrote:the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.
But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
The fuel and spark maps are tuned using software (megatune), they don't really have anything to do with the firmware.
What the NGC firmware does for you is allows you to decode the NGC crank trigger so that your MS hardware will function. The tuning software is unaffected.
~Josh
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
hmm thats interesting. i didnt know that, i figured it was compiled with the actual firmware much like traditional ECU's have. Although i really havent looked at MS at all its nice to know.turbodudey wrote:By "maps" you mean the fuel and spark maps?kevo wrote:the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.
But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
The fuel and spark maps are tuned using software (megatune), they don't really have anything to do with the firmware.
What the NGC firmware does for you is allows you to decode the NGC crank trigger so that your MS hardware will function. The tuning software is unaffected.
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turbodudey wrote:By "maps" you mean the fuel and spark maps?kevo wrote:the firmware is coded to read the NGC trigger, however the maps are not meant for a 2.0 NA motor.turbodudey wrote:The SRT-4 and regular NGC neons have the same crank trigger though, so I would not expect any issues with the Neon that hasn't been encountered by the SRT-4.
But, as Dave said, only testing will tell the whole tale.
The fuel and spark maps are tuned using software (megatune), they don't really have anything to do with the firmware.
What the NGC firmware does for you is allows you to decode the NGC crank trigger so that your MS hardware will function. The tuning software is unaffected.
I was going to say the same thing earlier...but then I thought...what if Kevo knows something I don't, or something I missed, and I sound like a complete idiot.
Shit, I might look into a MS for both my neons. Just have to swap the old NGC back for emissions...the 95 just has to run on a treadmill!
So many neons so little time.
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Mine's running.kevo wrote:btw, the ngc firmware has only been tested on srt-4's not a single standard neon has been tested yet.
ASP - First NGC SOHC in the 13s and the 12s. First SOHC neon over 500whp. First NGC Neon on MS.
Winston Churchill wrote:Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.
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Great info. This stuff is mind boggling though. I know if I did it, something is bound to go wrong. I'm pretty good when it comes to following instructions and working with lots of wires, but the amount is crazy. There are so many different versions and options, it's hard to just find a starting point. All I would want it for is to run my stock motor, but to bypass the NGC, raise the rev limit to 7K, and squeeze a few more horses out of the motor.
- turbodudey
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There is a lot of info, yes. Best thing to do would just be to start small. Read through the manuals, and if it doesn't makes sense do a little reasearch, then go back and read it again. Once you get familiar with how the system is setup, it's really very straight forward.danman132x wrote:Great info. This stuff is mind boggling though. I know if I did it, something is bound to go wrong. I'm pretty good when it comes to following instructions and working with lots of wires, but the amount is crazy. There are so many different versions and options, it's hard to just find a starting point. All I would want it for is to run my stock motor, but to bypass the NGC, raise the rev limit to 7K, and squeeze a few more horses out of the motor.
~Josh
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
'07 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4x4
'96 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4x4
good lord what have i done. rsautosport is no longer making the neon specific ms anymore so i went ahead and ordered one of the last ones they had in stock. turbodudey be prepared for lots of pms from me once i get this thing wired in. i have no clue what i'm doing!!!
ooh...there's a glimmer of the dream left!!!
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Oh shit you ordered one too? Which package did you get? You better not have got my 4 BAR one, fool. Just out of curiosity, what was the time of your order?
FEEDBACK
Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.
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haha calm down I was just messing with you.SGT BRAD wrote:ummm...i ordered it about an hour ago and yes i did order a 4bar in case i go turbo later.
FEEDBACK
Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.
Does anyone know what page the PCM pinout is on? I can't find it for the life of me.Once your harness in ran through the firewall, you can procede to hook up all your inputs/outputs. All of the signals that you will need to tap into are available at the main PCM plugs. For pinouts of the PCM plugs C1 and C2 look here: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neon ... EPL_8W.pdf
Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000094
I have a sticky in the motor swap section with the PCM pinouts (both NGC and non)
viewtopic.php?t=44196
viewtopic.php?t=44196
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...