How-to Outer tie rod replacement

Post Reply
occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

How-to Outer tie rod replacement

Post by occasional demons » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:17 pm

Loosen the lugnuts if you don't have an impact.

Jack up car and support.
Image

Remove the tire.
Image

Locate tierod. :roll:
Image

I measured from the bellows end on the tierod to the knuckle for reinstall reference. Since the tierod ends were being replaced for reasons other than looseness, the distance could be accurately measured. I guess if you use the exact same style you can count the turns. (If the tierod end comes off with out grief)

Break loose the adjuster lock nut.
Image

Apply heat as needed. Notice smoke :twisted:
Image

Once the locknut is backed off a few turns, use the wrench to knock it back to release the pinch washer.
Image

Loosen and remove nut from the knuckle end.
Image

Using a decent hammer, knock the tierod end from the knuckle.
Image

Image

Unthread the tierod end from the tierod. Depending on rust this may be an extreme PITA, as was the case here.
Image

This is where I got set back a few days.
Image

The Moog tierod ends do not have the split down the threaded length, therefore they don't expand. I couldn't get the tierod end to thread past 1/4 way on. Wire brushing the tierod wasn't cutting it. I had to get an M14 x 1.5 thread die from Amazon to finish.
Image

(Since there are no harware/parts stores/Sears that stock dies over 12 mm in my area. Not even Harbor Frieght! :banghead:)

So after chasing the threads,
Image

Image

I was able to install the new end.
Image

Then reinsert it into the knuckle. And tighten the bolt. Install the cotter pin.
Image

Add a little grease if you desire. They come pregreased, but there isn't a lot in there.
Image

Adjust the length back to where it was if you measured. And tighten the adjustment locknut.

Replace the wheels and lower car. Tighten lugs. Get the toe in set.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

NickKo
2009 Gold Contributor
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:24 am
Location: IL./WI.border

Post by NickKo » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:24 pm

Nice write up. :thumbup:

- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

User avatar
Swordfish2Cowboy
2009 Silver Contributor
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Sandusky, Ohio

Post by Swordfish2Cowboy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:55 am

lol is that your car?
ImageImage
:mopar: :runaway:

latief
2GN Member
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 11:32 am
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Post by latief » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:02 am

Nice write-up man!!!

could you explain this more:

"The Moog tierod ends do not have the split down the threaded length, therefore they don't expand. I couldn't get the tierod end to thread past 1/4 way on. Wire brushing the tierod wasn't cutting it. I had to get an M14 x 1.5 thread die from Amazon to finish. "

also, the location of the jack-stand seems problematic to me !!! is that a legitimate mounting point?

User avatar
Swordfish2Cowboy
2009 Silver Contributor
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Sandusky, Ohio

Post by Swordfish2Cowboy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:40 am

latief wrote:Nice write-up man!!!

could you explain this more:

"The Moog tierod ends do not have the split down the threaded length, therefore they don't expand. I couldn't get the tierod end to thread past 1/4 way on. Wire brushing the tierod wasn't cutting it. I had to get an M14 x 1.5 thread die from Amazon to finish. "

also, the location of the jack-stand seems problematic to me !!! is that a legitimate mounting point?
Image
See how the one on the right has a split down the middle?

Taking a wire brush to the tie rod, he tried to get some gunk off, but that didn't help, so he had to rethread the tie rod. Basically the tool he used put the right sized threads on the tie rod, so the end could go on.

As far as legit mounting points go, the correct placement is underneath where my sideskirts are at, so I use the same one he uses. Works fine for me.
occasional demons wrote:The Moog tierod ends do not have the split down the threaded length, therefore they don't expand. I couldn't get the tierod end to thread past 1/4 way on. Wire brushing the tierod wasn't cutting it. I had to get an M14 x 1.5 thread die from Amazon to finish.

(Since there are no harware/parts stores/Sears that stock dies over 12 mm in my area. Not even Harbor Frieght! :banghead:)
lol if you wanted to borrow one, I'm sure I've got a couple lying around.
ImageImage
:mopar: :runaway:

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:23 pm

I have a rubber coating on the jack stands, so the LCA bolt bites into it pretty well. Normally if I have do do some HD wrenching, I remove the extension, and set the bolt head into the pocket, so there is no way it is sliding off.
Even with the slit on the oem tie rod end, it was a bitch getting it to unthread. But it would still turn. The Moog one, you could tell if it went all the way on, the tie rod would likely twist off in the end in the future. It was just that tight. The passenger side was beatiful, no rust whatsoever. But I wasnted to show a how to that didn't go perfect. At least it may help with one solution for someone.

I thought of seeing if anyone had a die, but for $10 shipped, it just didn't seem worth the hassle of driving/shipping/returning.

It only took about 3 minutes to chase the threads. Just seemed like it would be a waste of effort for that little bit. Maybe if I didn't have a spare car it would be different.

The only PITA was I had to finish it with snow flying vs the sunny 60º day I started on. Friggin Ohio.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

Boyscoutgonebad
2GN Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: Findlay Ohio

Post by Boyscoutgonebad » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:21 pm

great write up, I'll following it in a week or so when the parts come in.
Image

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:02 pm

I figured someone would have flamed me for leaving the heatshields off. :lol:



They are going to be cleaned/painted/installed.

Just incase you were wondering. :roll:
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

User avatar
Swordfish2Cowboy
2009 Silver Contributor
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Sandusky, Ohio

Post by Swordfish2Cowboy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:47 pm

occasional demons wrote:I figured someone would have flamed me for leaving the heatshields off. :lol:



They are going to be cleaned/painted/installed.

Just incase you were wondering. :roll:
lol nah we just want to flame you cause of the Kaminari Viper front. :lol:
ImageImage
:mopar: :runaway:

darthroush
2GN Member
Posts: 1637
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:14 am
Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia

Post by darthroush » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:22 am

As if I didn't need ANOTHER damn thing to fix on the car, I finally took a peek around to see why my car won't hold an alignment. I thought paying $85 for an alignment might have gotten me some sort of answer to why other than, "I'm not sure." So while doing the brakes today (another project in itself, always f'n is. Kragen apparently sold me rear disc brake pads for the fronts of my car that has drum rears.), I found my outer tie rod end and ball joints are shot to all hell and back (waste of $85 for an alignment). Now just to figure out why the back won't hold the toe setting...

1. Thank you for this write-up about the tie rod ends. Doesn't seem to bad. Good tip about the die for the threads, which leads me to:
2. The Moog ones are the way to go I'm taking it?

User avatar
nerox
2011 Silver Contributor
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:51 am
Location: United Kingdom

Post by nerox » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:49 pm

What kind of grease is recommended for them MOOG rod ends?
Official "I'm gonna drive my Neon until it dies" Club Member UK#1

Image

Midnight_Rider
2014 Platinum Contributor
Posts: 8322
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:49 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: How-to Outer tie rod replacement

Post by Midnight_Rider » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:52 am

occasional demons wrote:Remove the tire.
Okay, stupid question- can the outer tie rods be replaced without removing the tires? I was half asleep when I took my car in last month and neither the service writer nor the tech at the Dodge dealership asked me for the key to my locking lug nuts. :shock:
Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon 'til It Dies" Club #10

titansxt
2GN Member
Posts: 2848
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 11:24 am
Location: IL

Post by titansxt » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:23 am

And you had your rod ends done?!
Image
2003 SXT
2005 SRT-4
2gn.org member #26 :tard:
Lemon Neon member #1.
Any or all of the above statement(s) may be entirely fictional and a fabrication. :lol:
ram50rocket wrote: I must had been mistaken in thinking that NEONS.ORG was just for neons.

Midnight_Rider
2014 Platinum Contributor
Posts: 8322
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:49 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Post by Midnight_Rider » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:18 am

^^If they weren't replaced, I was charged parts and labor for them.
Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon 'til It Dies" Club #10

User avatar
nerox
2011 Silver Contributor
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:51 am
Location: United Kingdom

Post by nerox » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:14 am

You should be able to change them with the wheel on easy. Sure if your at home and only have a jack you'll find it much quicker to get it off for access, but at a garage on a ramp when you can get underneath, removing the wheel would have no benefit
Official "I'm gonna drive my Neon until it dies" Club Member UK#1

Image

titansxt
2GN Member
Posts: 2848
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 11:24 am
Location: IL

Post by titansxt » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:39 am

nerox wrote:You should be able to change them with the wheel on easy. Sure if your at home and only have a jack you'll find it much quicker to get it off for access, but at a garage on a ramp when you can get underneath, removing the wheel would have no benefit
But that is just silly.

Gramps, just turn your wheel all the way one way and take a look to see if they are new. UNLESS you have the McGard locking lug nuts from the dealer and they just used one of their own keys.
Image
2003 SXT
2005 SRT-4
2gn.org member #26 :tard:
Lemon Neon member #1.
Any or all of the above statement(s) may be entirely fictional and a fabrication. :lol:
ram50rocket wrote: I must had been mistaken in thinking that NEONS.ORG was just for neons.

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:25 am

titansxt wrote:
But that is just silly.
If they are working flat rate, anything that saves a little time and gets them to the next job... No it isn't silly, it is money.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

titansxt
2GN Member
Posts: 2848
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 11:24 am
Location: IL

Post by titansxt » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:06 am

occasional demons wrote:
titansxt wrote:
But that is just silly.
If they are working flat rate, anything that saves a little time and gets them to the next job... No it isn't silly, it is money.
Sure, it can save time. I get that. But anyone with an impact gun and two able hands can remove, then reinstall, a wheel in under 30 seconds. At work we use limited torque guns and no torque sticks. I guess we can add an extra 30 seconds for the final torque with a torque wrench.
Image
2003 SXT
2005 SRT-4
2gn.org member #26 :tard:
Lemon Neon member #1.
Any or all of the above statement(s) may be entirely fictional and a fabrication. :lol:
ram50rocket wrote: I must had been mistaken in thinking that NEONS.ORG was just for neons.

Midnight_Rider
2014 Platinum Contributor
Posts: 8322
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:49 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Post by Midnight_Rider » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:23 pm

titansxt wrote:Gramps, just turn your wheel all the way one way and take a look to see if they are new. UNLESS you have the McGard locking lug nuts from the dealer and they just used one of their own keys.
I noticed new ones when I washed the car last week but got in a panic when I read the step in the how-to about removing the tires. Yeah, I've got McGards on so the dealer probably had several keys to choose from (I should have thought of that before :tardbang: ).[/hijack]
Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon 'til It Dies" Club #10

neonpla
2GN Member
Posts: 2571
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:27 am
Location: Killeen, TX

Post by neonpla » Thu May 03, 2012 9:45 pm

Thank you for this how to, it was very helpful and helped me finish the job in about 30 minutes.
2008 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
2005 Dodge Neon SRT4

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:26 pm

Thanks a lot for this write up! While doing the middle motor mount, actually right after removing the wheel I was inspecting a few things regarding my suspension (since I'm trying to buy all parts / bushings that need to be replaced when I install my struts/springs) and noticed my tie rod end looked like they needed replacing.

Glad I found this write up. Though.. looks like I may need a new tool.. to add more grease to the ends.

Now to find a thread about what are all the suspension components to consider replacing when doing the struts/springs (in order to rejuvenate the car).


By the way do you remember the part# for the moog tie rod end?

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:41 pm

Any farm supply, or Harbor Freight would have a grease gun.

Even a mini one would work, if the outer tie rods are all you would need it for. A regular sized tube would last for a few years. The grease may dry out a little by then.


http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 142100_0_0_

If doing more, a larger one with a flexible hose would be better.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:44 pm

occasional demons wrote:Any farm supply, or Harbor Freight would have a grease gun.

Even a mini one would work, if the outer tie rods are all you would need it for. A regular sized tube would last for a few years. The grease may dry out a little by then.


http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 142100_0_0_

If doing more, a larger one with a flexible hose would be better.
Thanks!

Edit: Hell I might just go with this:

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/pr ... ageDeal021
Front Lower Ball Joint - K7147 Qty 2
Front Outer Tie Rod Ends - ES3173RL Qty 2
Front Inner Tie Rod End - [Varies] - Qty 2
(standard steering, since firm steering sounds something that would belong on the SRT-4)

And just one more question.

What you replaced, that part is called the outer tie rod end and what it attaches to is the inner tie rod (end?), correct? I just need to replace the same exact part you replaced.


Crap and another question.. are the inner tie rods different in lengths (driver vs passenger)?

^ Disregard according to moog:
Fits Left or Right Side. Center of Socket to End 274mm

Themaggots
2GN Member
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Post by Themaggots » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:21 pm

IIRC, there's a difference in inner tie rod lenght ( or was it the PS rack lenght?) between the Regular Neon, R/T - ACR - SRT models. And I think some earlier version of the Neons could be ordered with a "Sport" options that had a different PS rack than the other models (Possible the R/T / ACR rack.

And unless your inner rod are shot, I don't see the point of replacing them. Major PITA too.
Jimmy

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:12 pm

illriginalized wrote:[

And just one more question.

What you replaced, that part is called the outer tie rod end and what it attaches to is the inner tie rod (end?), correct? I just need to replace the same exact part you replaced.

Correct


Crap and another question.. are the inner tie rods different in lengths (driver vs passenger)?

Same length

The inner tie rod length depends on whether you have the SRT, or R/T rack, an ATX, or an MTX. I believe the SRT and R/T racks use the same inner tie rods, but I may be wrong. Both are firm feel, 18:1 ratio.

SE/SXT are 16:1 for either ATX or MTX. The 1gn are opposite: ACR and R/T are 16:1



For the MTX/ATX difference, last post... #19
viewtopic.php?t=58301
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:34 pm

occasional demons wrote:
illriginalized wrote:[

And just one more question.

What you replaced, that part is called the outer tie rod end and what it attaches to is the inner tie rod (end?), correct? I just need to replace the same exact part you replaced.

Correct


Crap and another question.. are the inner tie rods different in lengths (driver vs passenger)?

Same length

The inner tie rod length depends on whether you have the SRT, or R/T rack, an ATX, or an MTX. I believe the SRT and R/T racks use the same inner tie rods, but I may be wrong. Both are firm feel, 18:1 ratio.

SE/SXT are 16:1 for either ATX or MTX. The 1gn are opposite: ACR and R/T are 16:1



For the MTX/ATX difference, last post... #19
viewtopic.php?t=58301

Interesting.. I'm going to have to contact Moog.. I have an ATX, for all I know what Moog has is a MTX style inner tie rod. Even on their site.. it makes no mention or no selection between MTX and ATX.
Themaggots wrote:IIRC, there's a difference in inner tie rod lenght ( or was it the PS rack lenght?) between the Regular Neon, R/T - ACR - SRT models. And I think some earlier version of the Neons could be ordered with a "Sport" options that had a different PS rack than the other models (Possible the R/T / ACR rack.

And unless your inner rod are shot, I don't see the point of replacing them. Major PITA too.
Hm.. how do you tell if they're shot? I thought the only real time to replace em is if they're bent, not that mine are bent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MkaagWF8ws
^Answered (damn we can't embed youtube videos via youtube tags?)

Looks like I'm going to have to test this next weekend.

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19915
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:44 pm

Most that I have seen are the ATX as they are far more common. You pretty much have to specify MTX, and pay the premium.

The inners wear out inside the socket that attaches to the steering gear rack. See the pic in the link...
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:46 pm

occasional demons wrote:Most that I have seen are the ATX as they are far more common. You pretty much have to specify MTX, and pay the premium.

The inners wear out inside the socket that attaches to the steering gear rack. See the pic in the link...
Gotcha! Yeah I wanted to see, beyond visual, what the symptoms are of a bad inner rod. Looks like if it can't hold up its own weight, it's time to replace.

Post Reply

Return to “HT Chassis”