How-To: SRT rear disc brake conversion

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soul_sword34
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Post by soul_sword34 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:39 pm

quicksilvr wrote:
soul_sword34 wrote:Won't the braking bias be off with SRT-4 rear calipers and stock Neon fronts?

Not that I can tell. Mine actually feel exactly the same as when I had drums. No noticeable difference in braking performance or feel. I've gotten on the brakes pretty good a couple times from 90 mph (slowing to make the closest turn off at the drag strip), and nothing locks up or anything.
I mean since your using SRT rear calipers won't the rear brake harder than the front? This would not be good for the twisties.
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Re: SRT rear disc How-To

Post by datadave49 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:55 pm

quicksilvr wrote:
lambostealth wrote:
quicksilvr wrote: SRT knuckes are not the same as stock knuckes...they fit just fine, but the knuckle/hub assembly is "shallower". Meaning, my rear tires had cleared the strut perch by about 1/4". Now, one side rubs, and one side clears by about 1mm. I maybe could slide a dime between the tire and strut perch on the side that doesn't rub. I ordered spacers from Modern Performace today to alleviate the problem. Just be aware that your offset with stock struts will change.
They are Identical, you may have messed some geometry up when everything went back together. How do I know they are identical you ask?

Because when I got my SRT rear disk setup about two years ago, one of the spindles was bent, so on a leap of faith I took apart my factory hub, and put the SRT hub and bearing assymbly onto my stock drum spindle ( think you called it a knuckle), it worked flawlessly, they are the same as far as internals, and mounting designs.
You're right. I thought they differed, because I thought I could actually trust the manager of the Tires Plus store that did my alignment. He told me he adjusted the camber with my cam bolts... and went so far as to have a 2 minute discussion with me about how those cam bolts just don't have enough adjustment in them, when I asked why the camber wasn't set the way I'd asked. Two weeks ago when I got the car put all back together from replacing ball joints and bushings, I realized he hadn't done crap to the camber. I set the camber by guessing, and it looks better and drives better than ever before. The doofus at Tires PLus had 1.8 degress NEGATIVE in the back...making the tires rub the strut perches. I turned the cam bolts over to where they were supposed to go, and now I've got pretty much 0 camber in the rear. And the tires don't rub.
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Check out the above post I have the same size rims as you my tire are 205 X40 X17 and I don't have any rubbing . if you would like to check it out pm me and we can meet up
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Post by quicksilvr » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:52 pm

soul_sword34 wrote:
quicksilvr wrote:
soul_sword34 wrote:Won't the braking bias be off with SRT-4 rear calipers and stock Neon fronts?

Not that I can tell. Mine actually feel exactly the same as when I had drums. No noticeable difference in braking performance or feel. I've gotten on the brakes pretty good a couple times from 90 mph (slowing to make the closest turn off at the drag strip), and nothing locks up or anything.
I mean since your using SRT rear calipers won't the rear brake harder than the front? This would not be good for the twisties.
That's what I was trying to address...the rears don't lock up, or even act like they want to. If I had to guess, I would say that yes, the overall bias is slightly different, but on the grand scheme of things, it's not sufficient to cause a noticeable difference in braking.
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Post by heyitsstock » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:02 pm

ok soo on my 2001 with stock steelies would i have a problem with temp fitment as far as my wheels go, and much room underneith the car would i need, i dont have a body lift, and in total how much did this cost you?
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Post by hansken_yo » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:00 am

I got all the brake components, steering rack, and SRT washer bottle for $650 shipped (from a wrecking yard), then I purchased new pads from Modern, their Hawk Street Performance pads, and then I will schedule an alignment for the car. That is just for the brakes pretty much. I also picked up some SRT rims so that the wheels can get around the brake calipers.

From what I understand, you need 17s to clear the caliper, and then the magic tire size for standard neons is 205/40/17 (there are others, but this is the most common size)


I just wanted to add some info for the Ebrake removal. I could not find a place to put a punch through, so I just unmounted the whole arm and brought it closer to the two cables and it gave me the slack I needed to remove them. Only took a couple of mins to undo the two bolts (13mm), and was really easy.
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Post by Hudson_Neon » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:33 am

it would seem highly unlikely that the brake bias would be off due to the fact that the caliper doesn't control the pressure, the master cylinder does, which would still be the same

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Post by Floyd » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:36 am

Im doing my SRT rear swap in about an hour. CANT WAIT!
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Post by datadave49 » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:00 am

Heu Hey
Look out you are going to stop a lot faster then you did when you were stock (wow the first time I hat to slam on my brakes I couldnot belive how fast and straight it stop)and that with all stock srt stuff)and just so all you know and don't want to remove you sterring rack (a realy pain )I just uesd the stock rack with the srt arms and it work fine the only thing that I had go wrong is I lost a caplier ar about 30 mph wow did it lock up When we get it home we found one bolt broke and one missing ??? Had to get a new caplier and lower control arm (got bent)so I say to use lock tight on the bolts (I thing the blue is the one I used its the one in the middle ) its not hard to come apart whan you need to take them out .
Just a up date we are in the first part of a srt drive train swap so keep an eye out of progress click on the link to my web page go to page 3 and 4
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Post by lolelectricbluesxt » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:31 am

Great write up. I too have done the rear srt disk brake swap, and it is a pretty straight forward set of affairs. Looks better then those drums, as well.
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Post by Aikidoka » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:29 am

Hudson_Neon wrote:it would seem highly unlikely that the brake bias would be off due to the fact that the caliper doesn't control the pressure, the master cylinder does, which would still be the same
But if the caliper piston reservoir holds more fluid than the wheel cylinder you will not be getting as much breaking power. If the reservoir is smaller you will be getting more. Either way would make the braking different and then there is any difference in how the disc pads catch compared to shoes.

Anybody know if the Neons use a proportioning valve after the MC to control brake pressure? The Broncos I have do so if you were to swap to rear discs you would swap out the stock valve with an adjustable one and set it to your liking. From the way those who have done the swap are talking it sounds like the difference is not noticeable to the driver. Not sure what that does to those 60-0 stopping distances though.
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Post by datadave49 » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:15 pm

Hey Hey
When we did our swap we did not change the porportioningvale and boy did the brakes work great as I said I need a sign that said 60 to 0 in ba ba seconds LOL
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Post by Wenuden » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:00 pm

heyitsstock wrote:ok soo on my 2001 with stock steelies would i have a problem with temp fitment as far as my wheels go, and much room underneith the car would i need, i dont have a body lift, and in total how much did this cost you?
I'm pretty sure you can't fit 15's over the srt discs/calipers. idk about 16's

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Post by Aikidoka » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:59 pm

datadave49 wrote:Hey Hey
When we did our swap we did not change the porportioningvale and boy did the brakes work great as I said I need a sign that said 60 to 0 in ba ba seconds LOL
Dave
I'll have to look up the part numbers. It would be interesting to see how much of the braking system is the same.
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Re: How-To: SRT rear disc brake conversion

Post by Darkness » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:54 pm

quicksilvr wrote:12. Before disconnecting the brake line, brace the brake pedal with something that will hold it at least 1.5 inches compressed. This isolates the the master cylinder from the rest of the system so all your brake fluid doesn't dribble out all over the place when you open the lines. A little will come out, but your master cylinder reservoir won't drain out.

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Even though I'm swapping in a complete SRT suspension with the brakes already installed, this tip will save me a lot of time filling and bleeding the brakes. Quicksilvr, when you brace the pedal like that, do you loosen the brake booster cover or leave it sealed?


Nice pics, great writeup, BTW.

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Post by quicksilvr » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:07 pm

Leave it sealed and you should be good to go.


EDIT: Now I started thinking about it, and I can't remember. I'd have to check my FSM, cause that's what told me to compress the pedal and use that procedure. Problem is I don't have my FSM handy. I'll get back to you on this..
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Post by 01NeonSnooZer » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:47 pm

First thing, great write up. As soon as I get some of my bills caught up, I'm gonna do this swap. LR wheel cylinder is sticky anyways.

Scond thing. Caster IS NOT a tire wear angle. Camber is and Toe is THE MOST IMPORTANT tire wear angle. Someone said their tire is wearing the outside egde. This is positive camber. Have an alignment done.

Third thing. Volume only effects pressure when there's not enough fluids to sustain the pressure. If the pistons in the calipers on the SRT are bigger, they'll holf more fluid but as long as you fille the reservoir up, you won't notice a difference because you've filled up that extra volume in the piston. All the fluid is there for is to transmit the movement of the master cylinder as pressure. We use fluid because you can't compress a liquid so it is the best edium for transmittin pressure. The big Semi's use air because there's an endless supply of it as long as the compressor is still working which is a good thing when you're hauling 80,000lbs and sharing a road with thousands of other cars.
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Post by 01NeonSnooZer » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:58 am

before I look like a jackass (oops, too late), I forgot Pascal's law. Pressure x area = force. I have to correct myself. If the piston is larger with the same pressure from the master cylinder, the clamping force from the caliper will be greater so that accounts for the noticeable diference but I do agree that it doesn't affect the brake bias. The proportioning valve is still allowing the same amount of pressure to get to the rear calipers but the bigger pistons mean more force. Same bias though. You'd have to get it going pretty fast through some twisties to see if it's enough of a difference to worry about.


So you WILL notice a difference in braking due to the extra force at the rear calipers and a disk's efficiency vs. a drum's. Sorry bout any confusion.
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Post by Hudson_Neon » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:05 pm

hey, so i just did a swap and i'm wondering if i should screw around with the e-brake shoes or leave them. cause with the drums i only had to pull the handle 1/2 way up and now i gotta pull it ALL the way up for the shoes to grab enough?

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Post by BlackRoseRacing » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:15 pm

Access covers on the back of the backing plates allow you to adjust the E-shoes...

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Post by Hudson_Neon » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:36 pm

ok, yeah... i have the know-how. i'm a mechanic for a living (well going through school). but i just didn't know if i SHOULD adjust them. but by your answer it sounds like i should. thanks

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Post by 2001DodgeNeonSe » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:42 pm

On my car the with the srt rear setup and stock 01 disc fronts. I was able to fit stock 14" steelie rims over my setup. My tire size was p185/65/r14's. Chirped in third HEHEHEHE
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Post by srtjesse » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:40 pm

dam i had ben looking for this for a long time nice write up so the rear brake is just a direct replacement right no custom work needed?
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Post by Adionik » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:03 pm

It is a direct bolt on...nothing needs to be modified at all. Might need a rubber mallet to get the backplate off
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Post by LionheartedSXT » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:44 pm

Just got finished with mine today, came out great and look so sexy!!! I love it so much better than the drums!!
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Post by NiteHawk » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:32 am

i'de like to make a note here...

the knuckle itself is not required. you only need the dust shield and the disc brake adapter (the part that bolts TO the knuckle)...

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the same knuckle/spindle from my car is still on there, just the new adapter and dust shield are installed on it...

it does bolt up just fine, so you wont need to do an alignment on your car if you're only swapping the rear brakes...
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Post by chasneonsxt » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:42 am

Nice write up. Will help out lots.

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Post by GreeNeons03 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:26 am

NiteHawk wrote:i'de like to make a note here...

the knuckle itself is not required. you only need the dust shield and the disc brake adapter (the part that bolts TO the knuckle)...

Image

the same knuckle/spindle from my car is still on there, just the new adapter and dust shield are installed on it...

it does bolt up just fine, so you wont need to do an alignment on your car if you're only swapping the rear brakes...
What adapter do you speak of?
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Post by chasneonsxt » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:15 pm

can we use the existing rear brake lines from the sxt? or do we need the srt 4 brake lines for the calipers?
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Post by excon » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:10 pm

you need the rear srt, r/t, or brake lines from a model with rear discs. The brake lines for the drums don't work. Same for the cables.
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Post by nate-00neon » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:15 pm

i take it you guys must have had lower miles...mine had 130K miles and the long bolts wont come out!!!!

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