Multifunction Switch~Bad Ground~Fuse Popping

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illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:53 pm

So I've replaced my multifunction switch + connector, took the relay from the old multifunction switch and put it into the new one. This was done yesterday, lights all worked up until I got home from work today. Fuse blew once again.

I checked all my bulbs, they all seem like they're in good condition. Additionally all the parking light bulbs are LEDs including the interior ceiling light.

Not sure what else I can do at this point. Could it be the relay attached to the multifunction switch?

If I decide to run new wires for power (black/yellow) and ground (black/orange) where is the junction at?

I'm thinking my only option is to cut all the black/yellow + black/orange at all the lights and run new cables all back to the connector.. but @ the connector it's obviously 1 cable for ground and 1 cable for power..

It should be 8 total for power and 8 for ground.

Front left turn
Front right turn
Rear left turn
Rear right turn
Left fender
Right fender
Interior panel
License plate

illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:00 pm

Bump! This is actually starting to effect my work... can't work for more than 8 hours, can't leave work after 3PM, otherwise I'll be receiving a traffic citation and seriously don't need this.

illriginalized
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Multifunction Switch~Bad Ground~Fuse Popping

Post by illriginalized » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:07 pm

So I've replaced my multifunction switch + connector, took the relay from the old multifunction switch and put it into the new one. This was done Sunday morning, lights all worked up until I got home from work yesterday. Fuse blew once again.

I checked all my bulbs, they all seem like they're in good condition. Including inside the sockets (they actually look brand new). Additionally all the parking light bulbs are LEDs including the interior ceiling light.

The ceiling light by the way, with the LED bulb connected, it's still some how receiving just enough power (it always has since I first installed that LED bulb) to light up dim when the car is off. When I open my car doors they light up bright.

Not sure what else I can do at this point. Could it be the relay attached to the multifunction switch?

If I decide to run new wires for power (black/yellow) and ground (black/orange) where is the junction at? In other words where do all 8 wires for power and 8 wires for ground meet?

I'm thinking my only option is to cut all the black/yellow + black/orange at all the lights and run new cables all back to the MFS connector.. but @ the connector it's obviously 1 cable for ground and 1 cable for power..

It should be 8 total for power and 8 for ground.

Front left turn
Front right turn
Rear left turn
Rear right turn
Left fender
Right fender
Cluster/Dash/Gear box
License plate

NickKo
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Re: Multifunction Switch~Bad Ground~Fuse Popping

Post by NickKo » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:29 am

illriginalized wrote:@ the connector it's obviously 1 cable for ground and 1 cable for power..

It should be 8 total for power and 8 for ground.
Question:
Just to clarify - Do you mean that you are *getting* power, at only 1 wire, and getting ground, at only 1 wire - And that you *should* be getting power at 8 leads and getting ground at 8 ?? :-k

Please forgive me if this is a stooopid question.... I have never attempted to re-wire an MFS, and haven't researched this - Yet. :|


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

NickKo
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Post by NickKo » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:42 am

illriginalized wrote:So I've replaced my multifunction switch + connector, took the relay from the old multifunction switch and put it into the new one. This was done yesterday, lights all worked up until I got home from work today. Fuse blew once again.

I checked all my bulbs, they all seem like they're in good condition. Additionally all the parking light bulbs are LEDs including the interior ceiling light.

Not sure what else I can do at this point. Could it be the relay attached to the multifunction switch?

If I decide to run new wires for power (black/yellow) and ground (black/orange) where is the junction at?

I'm thinking my only option is to cut all the black/yellow + black/orange at all the lights and run new cables all back to the connector.. but @ the connector it's obviously 1 cable for ground and 1 cable for power..

It should be 8 total for power and 8 for ground.

Front left turn
Front right turn
Rear left turn
Rear right turn
Left fender
Right fender
Interior panel
License plate
Where did you 'source' the replacement MFS from ?? New, or Used ??
(Such as, from a junkyard, or on the For Sale boards)
If it's used, I suppose the MFS itself could be the culprit.





As far as the electrical ground goes - Have you checked the grounds that attach to the upper radiator core support, near the headlamps ??
After I dismantled mine and wire brushed the wire lugs & screws, and cleaned the attaching surface down to bare metal, I noticed that my interior / dash lights, were noticeably brighter - Even in daytime !!

If you dismantle these ^ grounds to clean them - Do NOT operate any accessories (such as the horn, etc.) while they are disconnected - Or you may be very sorry. :( (saying this from actual experience)
For an added margin of safety, it wouldn't hurt to disconnect the negative battery cable, when dismantling these grounds - or doing any electrical repairs, for that matter.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:02 pm

Image
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illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:06 pm

NickKo wrote:
illriginalized wrote:@ the connector it's obviously 1 cable for ground and 1 cable for power..

It should be 8 total for power and 8 for ground.
Question:
Just to clarify - Do you mean that you are *getting* power, at only 1 wire, and getting ground, at only 1 wire - And that you *should* be getting power at 8 leads and getting ground at 8 ?? :-k

Please forgive me if this is a stooopid question.... I have never attempted to re-wire an MFS, and haven't researched this - Yet. :|


- Nick
Each bulb should have power wire and a ground wire (at the very least).


There's two front (left/right)
Two rear (left/right)
License plate
Front fender (left/right)
Cluster/Dash (HVAC controls)/automatic gear/shifter box



occasional demons wrote:Image

So according to this.. does that mean each individual bulb that is controlled by the MFS, actually has it's own pin?

CAV 2: Front Left Turn
CAV 4: Rear Left Turn
CAV 5: Front Right Turn
CAV 6: Rear Right Turn
CAV 8: Cluster/HVAC/Gear Box (????)


If so.. then how about:

License plate and Fender bulbs (they're all part of the parking lights)?

If this is the case, this will make running wire for ground a lot easier, didn't want to run pairs of wires for each parking bulb.

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Post by occasional demons » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:37 pm

Yes the rear license lamp and front markers are part of the parking lamp circuit. All should be BK/YL power.

This is something i drew up a while back, to install relays so the MFS only controlled the load of a relay coil vs the lamps.

Image
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occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:49 pm

OK I have consolidated this into one thread.

Which fuse is blowing? That may also help...
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illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:12 pm

occasional demons wrote:OK I have consolidated this into one thread.

Which fuse is blowing? That may also help...
CAV 20 is what melted.
Fuse #15 (15A) is the one that keeps blowing. After replacing connector + MFS.

When the fuse blows, parking lights don't turn on nor does the cluster (the gauges), the HVAC controls (A/C and heater lights in the dash), as well as the gear box lights (P, R, N, D, 3, 1).

Brake lights work when I press the brakes and left/right flashers in front and rear work.

OreoDJR
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Post by OreoDJR » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:21 am

Slightly related topic, I'm thinking about doing the same "relay" job for my R/T.

My MFS has a loose foglight switch, so I was going to add a new switch completely and cut the connections to the MFS in the fusebox.
Along with this, I was also thinking of switching headlights to relays so all that current isn't running through the MFS.

Any suggestions on what kind of relays to use?
Or any wire selection tips?
Looking at some of the diagrams in my Hayes manual, the wiring in the neon is pretty simple and direct.

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Post by occasional demons » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:32 am

Any automotive relay will work. the most common are sold at any chain parts store.

Note: I never actually got around to doing this, so you are on your own beyond the rough draft of a diagram above.


illriginalized: So it is basically something in the BK/YL circuit that is shorting. Or the circuit for the interior dimmed lighting. I would begin by checking all the bulb sockets, and connectors that you can find. Then move on to looking for a wire that has worn through to ground.

You can pull the number 15 fuse, and rig a test light to plug into the socket, using parts of a blown fuse if you have a soldering iron to solder a wire to each blade. Just slide the indivual blades int the socket, use shrink tube to insulate them.

Attach the light to the two wires sticking out, and pull every bulb out of the circuit. If the light is still illuminated, there is a solid short to ground somewhere. Keep wiggling wires/unplugging connectors until the test light goes out.
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illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:37 pm

occasional demons wrote:Any automotive relay will work. the most common are sold at any chain parts store.

Note: I never actually got around to doing this, so you are on your own beyond the rough draft of a diagram above.


illriginalized: So it is basically something in the BK/YL circuit that is shorting. Or the circuit for the interior dimmed lighting. I would begin by checking all the bulb sockets, and connectors that you can find. Then move on to looking for a wire that has worn through to ground.

You can pull the number 15 fuse, and rig a test light to plug into the socket, using parts of a blown fuse if you have a soldering iron to solder a wire to each blade. Just slide the indivual blades int the socket, use shrink tube to insulate them.

Attach the light to the two wires sticking out, and pull every bulb out of the circuit. If the light is still illuminated, there is a solid short to ground somewhere. Keep wiggling wires/unplugging connectors until the test light goes out.
When I use the test light, do I need to turn on the park lights (after I've pulled the bulbs) or just keep the park lights off?

I personally have a feeling it's the interior ceiling bulb.. it's an LED and even when the car is completely off with the doors shut, the LED bulb is still slightly lit (dim), when I open the car door.. it lights up bright.

Even though it's an LED bulb.. shouldn't the bulb shut completely off? Or does for some reason the Neon naturally have slight power giving to the ceiling? (I'd hope not).

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Post by occasional demons » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:50 pm

I would leave the parking lamps switched off, to eliminate a short from the fuse to the MFS switch. If the light does not illuminate, then that much is good. Then switch the MFS to the parking light position.

The LED dome light glowing is normal. The dome light is a ground path. The current on it is not enough to make a incandescent filament burn, but it will light an LED.

Without the bulb or LED in the circuit, you should get a "dome" message on the cluster when the door is open.
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illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:17 pm

occasional demons wrote:I would leave the parking lamps switched off, to eliminate a short from the fuse to the MFS switch. If the light does not illuminate, then that much is good. Then switch the MFS to the parking light position.

The LED dome light glowing is normal. The dome light is a ground path. The current on it is not enough to make a incandescent filament burn, but it will light an LED.

Without the bulb or LED in the circuit, you should get a "dome" message on the cluster when the door is open.
Okay I'll try tomorrow. Probably will just take the day off of work, unfortunately.

illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:33 pm

illriginalized wrote:
occasional demons wrote:I would leave the parking lamps switched off, to eliminate a short from the fuse to the MFS switch. If the light does not illuminate, then that much is good. Then switch the MFS to the parking light position.

The LED dome light glowing is normal. The dome light is a ground path. The current on it is not enough to make a incandescent filament burn, but it will light an LED.

Without the bulb or LED in the circuit, you should get a "dome" message on the cluster when the door is open.
Okay I'll try tomorrow. Probably will just take the day off of work, unfortunately.
Well plans just got shot down. Autozone nor Oreilly's carries a test light with 2 alligator clips.

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Post by occasional demons » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Get a cheap side marker/license plate replacement socket, and push a 194 bulb into it. You could put small clips on the leads.
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illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:53 am

occasional demons wrote:Get a cheap side marker/license plate replacement socket, and push a 194 bulb into it. You could put small clips on the leads.
Crap... that's slick. Alright.

illriginalized
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Post by illriginalized » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:02 pm

Took it to the mechanic.. the black/yellow cable was grounding some where right below the steering wheel column / under the dash.

NickKo
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Post by NickKo » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:10 pm

illriginalized wrote:Took it to the mechanic.. the black/yellow cable was grounding some where right below the steering wheel column / under the dash.
Thanks for circling back and posting this update !! :thumbup: Glad to hear that the mystery is solved !!


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

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