2000 Neon 2.0 SOHC Engine Swap

[charlier12]

Hey all. I have been reading through this forum and some others and now I am more confused and in need of some expert assistance.

Quick Info. My wife races a dirt race car which is a 2000 2.0 SOHC. So the engine just needs to be able to run, so any non-essential wires can be removed.

Anyways, after reading some post I thought I needed a Stratus 2.4L motor. So I bought a 99' from the junkyard. Well I am starting to think its not the right motor. The oil filter and neck interfere with the lower side motor mount. If someone can provide me a year and model I will exchange the motor for something else. I read an 01' Cruiser or any 2.4NA motor will work. The 01' Cruiser motor can use all the brackets, I assume. I will try to attach some pictures of what I currently have and thanks in advance for your help. Also sorry if this information is already available and I am just missing it.

Daryl

[occasional demons]

Pics don't work....


The 2.4 MUST be a DOHC. If it is a SOHC from a DSM Galant platform Stratus/Sebring, it will not work. It also needs to be '00 or older for the 1gn DOHC IM to be a direct bolt on.

The VIN must be 8th digit "X"

The PT is the best bet for everything to go smoothly. The brackets, exhaust manifold and oil pan are needed to make the swap into a 2gn mostly headache free.

The oiling system on the Stratus is not easily used in a 2gn.

The 2001 to 2002 head will a have slightly different bolt pattern on the intake and exhaust than the older heads. The exhaust won't be an issue, since you would be using the PT manifold. The intake manifold, if using a 1gn IM, will either need to be drilled to fit, or the head will need drilled and tapped to accommodate the 1gn IM.

Or you could fab a manifold to work, but not sure how that would work with class rules. The SRT intake manifold could be used, but the bottom end torque may suffer due to the large short runner design. It will be the simplest bolt on to the head, and should have no clearance issues, but the throttle body will have to be included. But the IAC will not work with the '00 PCM.

There is no simple way to just use the neon intake and throttle body with a 2.4 swap on 2nd gens, due to the SRT being the only DOHC option for those years.

[charlier12]

Sorry about that. I am new to posting pictures to forums as well... I made another attempt, trying to use Google Pictures

Also I greatly appreciate your time for helping.

The motor I purchased was a 2.4 DOHC. I was informed that the motor was a 99' so this is good if this is true. If the pictures work, you can see my issue during install. The passenger side of the motor has the oil filter below the crank. The filter will not allow me to get the motor into the car as it hits the frame. The SOHC oil filter that was in the car is in the rear of the engine. You mention that the oiling system from a stratus is not easily used in a 2gn. Is this what you are referring to?

I will check the VIN on the motor when I get home. I really cant tell from the pictures I took.

At this point I am better off switching this motor out for a PT Cruiser 2.4L motor, if I understand correctly. Still a 00' or older, correct?
If I understand correctly:
- The Intake manifold will need to be modified or the head will need modified to make the 1gn DOHC Intake Manifold work? Or is this just for 2001 and 2002 heads?
- Or Fab a manifold if class rules allow.
- If I make the above work, then the throttle body, IAC and PCM will all work from the PTC?

This is a huge help and once again I appreciate the assistance. I hope the pictures worked this time.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/u6pL7TgB5DxGfakc9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JCDKaR9NtSsiJHPR7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/o21FijPvJdQs3JVS9

[occasional demons]

Daryl, I edited your post so it is just the picture links.

You can use a picture hosting service like Imgur, or Flikr to direct link pictures. Or just post the url's like I did above.

You can definitely use that engine, the '99 head should give you zero issues using a 1gn intake manifold.

The earlier heads have larger exhaust valves, and better flowing ports, so that is a plus.

The downside obviously is the oil filter location. Now, you could get creative, and cut the filter part off, and drill/tap for some fittings to use a remote mount filter. Or if room allows, use a filter adapter plate to attach lines to for a remote mount.

Also, if I recall correctly (IIRC), I think there is another version of that oil pump that places the filter differently.

Or you could pull the oil pan, oil pump, pick up tube, and any other related stuff off of a PT and swap it onto that engine. If you trade it for the complete PT engine, you lose the better flowing head, and will have to drill for the IM. PT's were only made from 2001 to 2010, so you wouldn't find a 2000 model year PT. Only 2001 and 2002 PT engines will work with your PCM. If you went with a 2003 to 2010, you would need a 2004/2005 neon PCM, SKIM module, matching chipped key, and wire harness, or a complete PT PCM, wiring, etc, and sort it all out to fit in the neon.

You may need to use the neon crank pulley if you plan on using the neon alternator, etc.

I don't know how familiar you are with removing crank pulleys. If not so much, we can discuss that too.




There is the issue of repinning the PCM connector to run the 2.4 also. Since the 2.4 and 2.0 are 180º out of phase on the cranks. The cam magnet also needs the locating pins cut off and rotated 90º clockwise I believe.

This is only applicable to 2002 and older neons. 1996 to 2002 are known as SBEC engine management, and 2003 to 2005 are known as NGC. While the engines appear to be identical, the crankshafts are different, as well as the crank sensor locations. The crank and cam signals are also different, so the two are totally incompatible if one year range engine is attached to the other year range of PCM. There is no way to make one work with the other. What has been done in years past is no longer available, and that option never really got past the prototype stage as far as I know. (NGC engine with an SBEC crank reluctor ring bolted in place of the NGC wheel)

The slight advantage to using the 2.0 PCM with the 2.4 is the rev limit is 6750 vd 6000. So you will gain an extra 750 rom.

You will also need to get a 2001 to 2005 fuel pressure regulator or get at least 24 lb/hr injectors. The injectors on the 2.4 should be 21 lb/hr.

2000 FPR's are 49 psi, 2001 to 2005 are 58 psi. Occasionally, both the 24 lb/hr injectors and the 58 psi FPR are needed. On my '99 2.4 swap, I used new 21 lb/hr injectors, and the aftermarket oem replacement regulator make 63 PSI, so it worked out fairly well.

FWIW, the 2.0 injectors are 19 lb/hr.

One other thing I forgot: The 1gn intake manifold will probably need modified so the 90º upward bend is cut off, and a straight or slightly angled up tube is welded on, to either attach the 2gn throttle body, or weld a flange to bolt a bolt on throttle body directly. Otherwise trying to use a 1gn TB might stuff it directly into the hood.

[occasional demons]

The person that had my '00 had a Stratus 2.4 in it, but he cut the crossmember where the lower torque strut attaches for clearance, and ran it without the strut. He welded a yoke in the center and made a set up like the 1gn bobble, the set up seemed a bit risky to me, being this car was also boosted with SRT internals, etc.

The sad thing is, the crossmember is in mint condition otherwise. A very uncommon thing for an early 2gn neon that has been in Ohio all it's life with over 100,000 miles.

The yoke could be fabbed back to use the lower strut again, but I have a spare '03 up style crossmember from my '01 that I bought new after the original rotted out. So It will likely be stored until I may need it someday.

[charlier12]

Thank you so much for the help and information. This is great news about the motor. I plan to just use it since I already have it and do not want to get more involved trying to make a PT motor work. Also I just confirmed with copart that the motor was actually from a 2000 Stratus and the VIN "X". So wrong year but i believe the 98' to 00' were the same motors.

For the oil filter, I will first look for another motor version with the oil filter mounted differently. If no luck, then I will make a remote filter. Shouldn't be an issue with a little ingenuity. I was really concerned that nothing else would work as well.

I was planning on changing the crank pulley but I kinda stopped moving once I seen the oil filter issue. I remember reading on either this forum or others about rotating the cam gear 90 degrees. I am glad you said something though, because I thought it only was done if you wanted more top end power and less torque.

Is the 2.0 PCM differ between a SOHC and DOHC?

I seen the injector information too, but appreciate you clarifying. I originally was following these instructions when I first started. https://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=318202

As for the 1gn, manifold I did not know this. I will try to get pictures of the progress as I did not see a lot on any of the forums.

Just another thought. For the engine mounts, should I be finding 2.0 DOHC 1gn mounts or using PT mounts? I was going to try and make the SOHC mounts work, but need some work like drilling new holes to line up with the block (especially the front mount).

I was considering cutting out the cross member motor mount bracket, but didn't want to hurt the integrity of the chassis, especially since my wife will be racing it.

Thanks again.

[occasional demons]

You will need PT motor mounts to use it in the 2000 to 2005 neons.

The adapters that are pictured will only work for 1gn neons.

[charlier12]

Got it. Thanks again for the help with this. I probably be back once I run into more problems.

[charlier12]

Hello Demons,

I have been searching for my parts list. This weekend, I did not get much done. Rotated the cam magnet 90 deg. clockwise, and attempted to pull the pulley off. Broke my harbor freight pulley puller. This week, my friend plans to grab one from his work to try and pull it off.

Anyways, I wanted to make sure I fully understood what I was buying before moving forward.
1. I purchased the the PT front engine Torque strut bracket part# 4668687AC. I believe I read another post on here that all the brackets and mounts are needed too. Is this true?
2. I purchased and installed MPx 2.4L Engine P/S Bracket & Engine Mount Adapter Package (Can see on previous pics). Are these still to be used? When purchased I thought i had a 1gn car.
3. Do I also need the oil pan from a PT ? What makes it fit better, if so?
4. If a PT oil pan is reguired, do I also need the pickup tube, oil pump, etc. Or is this only needed if I do not decide to do a remote filter (which I do).
5. Is the 1gn DOHC IM perform better than the stratus or is it mainly due to clearance issues? I can modify the hood if needed, as the rules do not say otherwise. I also seen that there is a lower and upper for the 1gn. I have been searching for a diagram but assume I need them both.
6. The exhaust manifold needs to be from a PT? I was trying to find her a racing header of some sort for a stratus but maybe this will not work.
7. Do I need to block off the EGR?

I was hoping to figure most of this out this weekend, however with having trouble getting the pulley off and my friend wanting to leave his shop, we didnt test anything. Next weekend we will try again.

Thanks

[occasional demons]

Anyways, I wanted to make sure I fully understood what I was buying before moving forward.
1. I purchased the the PT front engine Torque strut bracket part# 4668687AC. I believe I read another post on here that all the brackets and mounts are needed too. Is this true?

If you are using the PT as a donor, yes. The engine mount bracket that goes on the timing end can be either from an SRT4 or a PT, but if you are running PS, you will have to match that to whichever bracket you use.
This is the PT bracket, the SRT is similar, but the PS pump is clocked differently.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-MOPAR-RIGH ... SwNRdX-90W

If your 2.4 came with the AC mounted to it, you may not have needed to purchase that bracket. But don't hold me to that, as those may not have had a lower torque strut mounted to them like the PT/2gn neons. so possibly that is a good purchase.

2. I purchased and installed MPx 2.4L Engine P/S Bracket & Engine Mount Adapter Package (Can see on previous pics). Are these still to be used? When purchased I thought i had a 1gn car.
I am not sure if you can make use of the PS mount bracket or not. The engine mount adapter, will not work. You should be able to sell those parts eventually to someone doing a 2.4 swap in a 1gn.


3. Do I also need the oil pan from a PT ? What makes it fit better, if so?
4. If a PT oil pan is reguired, do I also need the pickup tube, oil pump, etc. Or is this only needed if I do not decide to do a remote filter (which I do).

The complete PT oiling setup is needed if you go that route. There is nothing gained as far as fit with the oil pan, just the oil pump and filter location is more suited to the neon, because those parts are also the same as the SRT4. If you make a remote oil filter set up, you can use the Stratus stuff.


5. Is the 1gn DOHC IM perform better than the stratus or is it mainly due to clearance issues? I can modify the hood if needed, as the rules do not say otherwise. I also seen that there is a lower and upper for the 1gn. I have been searching for a diagram but assume I need them both.

Yes, you need both halves. Mainly clearance between the radiator and engine. If the hood can be cut, you could use the PT IM as it goes over the engine.


6. The exhaust manifold needs to be from a PT? I was trying to find her a racing header of some sort for a stratus but maybe this will not work.
A header will work, but it will need to be a DOHC neon header.

7. Do I need to block off the EGR?
Yes

I was hoping to figure most of this out this weekend, however with having trouble getting the pulley off and my friend wanting to leave his shop, we didnt test anything. Next weekend we will try again.

Rent or buy the rental style from AutoZone. Chrysler Harmonic Balancer puller. They work like a dream.

[charlier12]

So I got to start off by saying WOW! This was a long, tiring project but we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. There are just a couple more things to get figured out but I will say that luckily I had a 97 2.0 DOHC motor available. We ended up using the IM, throttle body, and complete wiring harness from the 97 DOHC neon in order to get the motor to run. I had to custom make an upper and lower motor mount bracket and had to make a remote oil filter. We also ended up taking out the balancer from the motor to remove some weight from the car. The transmission is still the automatic transmission from the 2000 SOHC Neon.

In order to get it to start we ended up changing the plug wire locations and Fuel Injectors. Wire 1 ended up on 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, and 4 to 1. We did this for both the plug wires and the fuel injectors. I also rotated the CAM magnet 90 degrees clockwise. The motor is running, but when we go to move it, it really does not have much power. (We still need to add an exhaust). I am curious if the above wiring is correct and if there is a way to check to see if the CAM magnet is correct? I know when I moved it back, it did not want to start. But I am curious if it is not quite right, or if it should be counter clockwise instead.

[occasional demons]

If the cam magnet is off too much, it will not start at all, so if it started once, it is probably close enough.

I don't recall which way the injectors move, but it is in the archived 2.4 swap thread on neons.org. I repinned the PCM connector in my '99, vs swapping injectors and plug wires.

What fuel pressure regulator and injectors are you using? If it is too lean, it will be down on power, and possibly overheat. I ended up buying new '97-'99 DOHC injectors, and went with a 2001-2005 FPR. But the FPR is at the top end of spec, making 63 psi.

The '97-'99 DOHC injectors are supposed to be 21 lb/hr vs the SOHC which are 19 lb/hr. The overall recommendation is 24 lb/hr with the '95 to 2000 FPR, and sometimes the '01 up is needed for whatever reason.

[charlier12]

I will look back through the forum for the correct injector and plug move. Its running but will test tonight if it wants to actually go. When we moved it around the shop the front tires seemed like their where skipping. We left the AM transmission from the 2000 SOHC engine in the car. Will the DOHC PCM communicate correctly to the transmission or do we need to do something there?

We bought the mustang 24lb/hr injectors. We do not have a fuel regulator on the car.

[occasional demons]

Will the DOHC PCM communicate correctly to the transmission or do we need to do something there?

Is the DOHC PCM an ATX pcm or an MTX pcm?

The only thing that won't happen with the MTX pcm is the torque converter lock up will not function.

We do not have a fuel regulator on the car.

The stock FPR is still on the fuel tank, correct?

The '95 to 2000 FPR is 49 psi. The 2001-2005 is 58 psi. the spec is +/- 5 psi.

Every original equipment FPR I have seen is dead on either 49 or 58 depending on the year.

So if it is lean, the oem FPR can be swapped to bump fuel delivery if needed.

[charlier12]

Is the DOHC PCM an ATX pcm or an MTX pcm? Yes it is a ATX.

The stock FPR is still on the fuel tank, correct? Yes it is

So the wife jumped in it last night and it seems to be idling okay and revs up when she hits the throttle. Once she puts it into gear (Drive, 1st, or 2nd) it goes about 3MPH with the pedal all the way down. I missed something somewhere here.

[charlier12]

Also, I apologize as I just seen your PM. I think I got the PT PS Bracket to work but I will know for sure this weekend.

[occasional demons]

I had a brain fart...

If you're using a 1gn PCM (DOHC) with the 2000 Wiring, that could be your issue. There are a few differences that may give you trouble. You may need to install the 2000 SOHC PCM to get it to run correctly, if you are not using the SOHC pcm.

[occasional demons]

I don't know how much of the factory wiring etc you are using since this is not a street driven car.

[charlier12]

So the original car was a 2000 SOHC. When we got the car I stripped all the wires out under the dash except what allowed the car to run. I left everything in the engine bay installed. Then we just installed the 2.4L Stratus motor. We tried using the wiring harness but could not get the motor to start (Didnt know about switching plug wires and injectors). So we removed the entire wiring harness out of the car (Everything).

Then I grabbed a 97 Neon DOHC car and gutted it clean and removed the entire wiring harness from it. While I had the harness out, I removed all useless wires (Lights, AC, gauges, etc). I then installed it and no go. This is when we figured out the switiching of plug wires and injectors. Once we did that it fired up and thats where we are at right now.

So in short we are using everything from the 97 DOHC Neon. So in theory the car should think its a 97 neon. Just the transmission not wanting to work properly. All the connectors were exactly the same.

[charlier12]

I am going to try this sequence below in the morning. I found this on the neons.org forum posted by 1GN Cory. Its a 95 wiring harness swap for a 2.4L

"This is using the newest sequence by "90turbovan" following 4-2, 2-1, 1-3, 3-4."

What I am currently doing is 4-1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4.

[charlier12]

So we got it running right today. The firing order was defiantly off and even the above didnt work. The firing order for the 97 Neon PCM to the 2000 Stratus 2.4L is 1-2, 2-1, 3-4, 4-3.
It runs like a bad out of hell now. lol. I still have some other items to tidy up, then Ill put up some pictures.

[occasional demons]

Awesome you got it figured out!

[charlier12]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cQzs8x ... sp=sharing

Below is the firing order.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1REuVgD ... sp=sharing

Custom Upper Engine Mount. We unbolted it from the side then added the PT Crusior upper motor mount bracket. Bolted it up then set the motor down to the frame. Positioned were we wanted it then welded it in. Added some gussets for support. We also used the PT PS bracket. I had to slot the holes a little to get the pulley to line up with the crank pulley.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n0VYdd ... sp=sharing

Lower motor mount was made with two heims ends and threaded bar. It was the only way to hold the engine with the oil pump. You can see where I cut the pump off and added to 90's with hoses. I could of made this nicer but it gets the job done for our use.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QG9ycm ... sp=sharing

Remote oil filter fit inside the fenderwell. I drilled to large holes and put a heavy duty hose clamp around it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXO3pD ... sp=sharing

Remaining to do is New Radiator support bracket and I need to get a filter onto the throttle body. Im looking for a 90 degree rubber hose to fit then mount the air filter near the driver side headlight area to catch the air coming in.

[occasional demons]

The links won't work unless you sign into Google Drive.

IDK if creating an account will take you to the linked picture.

[charlier12]

Let me try again...

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... 34Mp91tNuK

Below is the firing order.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... lX_D4kyPbL

Custom Upper Engine Mount. We unbolted it from the side then added the PT Crusior upper motor mount bracket. Bolted it up then set the motor down to the frame. Positioned were we wanted it then welded it in. Added some gussets for support. We also used the PT PS bracket. I had to slot the holes a little to get the pulley to line up with the crank pulley.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... SfwE6toG2A

Lower motor mount was made with two heims ends and threaded bar. It was the only way to hold the engine with the oil pump. You can see where I cut the pump off and added to 90's with hoses. I could of made this nicer but it gets the job done for our use.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM ... 3bFNunqk0p

Remote oil filter fit inside the fenderwell. I drilled to large holes and put a heavy duty hose clamp around it.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipO ... ZtTyzKZwHh

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... 6SuRlVrHIT

[charlier12]

So we got a new problem... When we are racing the exhaust manifold is blazing red when she comes off the track. Car seems to have power but it is definitely over heating. When I checked the plugs #1 was wet and #2,3, and 4 were all white. So it must be lean. We increased the injectors from the mustand ones to Dodge Ram 32lb (I believe) injectors. Same problem.

Is there a way to check an make sure that the injectors are working when they are suppose to or do they all work at the same time? While the car was running I would disconnect one at a time and each time the motor would go down to 3 cylinders. Is there a program or software that we can plug in and see that we are applying enough full to the motor? Or maybe the computer and/or 02 sesnor is limitting the fuel to the engine while she is racing?

We are completely lost as of now. Next step is to locate a larger radiator and better electric fan to help keep it cool.

[occasional demons]

Unless you are seriously low on fuel pressure, 32 lb injectors should be flooding that engine. With 21lb injectors, and 63 psi, mine runs pig rich and loads up at idle. Even when I pull the fuel pump relay, it never clears up, and stalls before that happens. my injectors were brand new, and this has been the case since day one using them.

A parts store sold me V8 injectors by mistake for my Mom's 2.2 turbo Le Baron back in the day. It ran poorly, and even under boost, it was nearly flooding the engine. they didn't like it, but they refunded my money. That taught me to look at the manufacture PN# on the injector, and make sure it is what it should be.

Have you verified fuel pressure?

It is still the oem cast iron manifold?

Is there a pipe after the manifold?

A shorted to ground injector to PCM wire would have the injector on constantly. If that is the case, the other three might be over corrected to lean by the PCM. I would think it would still run poorly in that situation.

What octane are you running? If it is considerably higher than pump gas, the fuel may still be burning as it exits the exhaust valves. 2.4's don't have a lot of compression to make good use of higher octane fuel.

[occasional demons]

And the picture links still won't work without "permission" even after logging into google.

[charlier12]

I think I found the problem with the pictures. Lets try again. They are not in order though.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SXpgvbHCrShJVeh9A
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Pj8gtQxTAqEjg6RP8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Kz2uDrBjPHfMtVuh9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GFDJt3XjuxhU2xqW8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hP28eG9WC36z27NG7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vBn7QA3nynK77cQG9

I believe we are flooding the engine and burning the excess fuel in the motor. We put the 24lb injectors back in and she blows smoke at the start of the race but after she gets going there is no smoke, however the cast iron EM is glowing red.

Never verified fuel pressure. Our Water temp was 180. Yes cast iron manifold. Yes we have a straight pipe that goes down and out (right in front of RR Tire). We run pump gas.

I havnt got a chance yet, but I am looking to see if there is a computer program that we can hook up to see exactly what is going on. I am thinking of putting the stock injectors back in, but affraid it may make it to lean.

[occasional demons]

Is there a way to check an make sure that the injectors are working when they are suppose to or do they all work at the same time? While the car was running I would disconnect one at a time and each time the motor would go down to 3 cylinders. Is there a program or software that we can plug in and see that we are applying enough full to the motor? Or maybe the computer and/or 02 sesnor is limitting the fuel to the engine while she is racing?

We are completely lost as of now. Next step is to locate a larger radiator and better electric fan to help keep it cool.

Injectors are sequential, or they each fire when the intake valve opens, provided the re wire is correct. If it was batch fire, the injector connectors would not need either swapped, or wires re pinned.

I would not assume the coolant is overheating because the manifold is glowing. I honestly don't know if that is normal. I would assume maybe a relatively faint glow, but a bright full on glow, probably not.

My dad's tractor would light up the exhaust manifold plowing the fields, but that's probably a substantial bigger load, despite the gearing advantage.

If the manifold was glowing just from a no load situation, I would say it is either lean, or there is a blockage in the exhaust. But with a straight pipe, unless it was an old double wall pipe, and the inside collapsed, I don't see blockage being an issue. With the pipe there, there should be no ambient air messing with the o2 sensor.


As far as a decent tool to monitor the engine, you'll need the OBD port, and a smart phone or tablet. It does not need to have active service, just to be able to connect via blue tooth or an adapter:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... e&hl=en_US