Vermont Votes to Impeach Bush/Cheney

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:16 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/11723 ... MR9e4DW7oF

SILVER-ES · Post by **SILVER-ES** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:44 pm

Same thing was talked about here in the Washington state legislature but the Governor shot it down saying that there are more important state issues that need to be handled first.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:59 pm

I love it - the democrats want bush out as bad as the republicans wanted clinton out... Good luck Vermont!!! Now go back to assisting child preditors and not prosecuting criminals to the full extent of the law. Oh yeah, and make sure you continue to make laws from the bench instead of in the legislature.

zerocoolok · Post by **zerocoolok** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:39 pm

kc2002acr wrote: I love it - the democrats want bush out as bad as the republicans wanted clinton out... Good luck Vermont!!! Now go back to assisting child preditors and not prosecuting criminals to the full extent of the law. Oh yeah, and make sure you continue to make laws from the bench instead of in the legislature.

Clinton didn't do anything wrong to the country, the conservatives tried to impeach him for something that was his personal business. Bush on the other hand has broken almost every law and treaty on the handling of prisoners of war (which the people at Guantanamo are) and torture there is to invade a country that we have no business being in. Clinton lied under oath, I know that, but he shouldn't have had to answer to that in the first place so that point is null.

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:52 pm

I'd 2nd it.

glasswars · Post by **glasswars** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:56 pm

Schweet.

rOniN · Post by **rOniN** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:07 pm

Bush is the man!

The thing with Clinton is he lied under oath which could be considered a "high crime or misdemeanor". Still not worth impeaching him but he did commit an act forbidden in the constitution.

Bush hasn't personally broken a law.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:11 pm

this thread will be the true test of how well people here can hold their cool and not turn something into a flaming war.

good luck to everyone.

i am not up to date on recent actions, so i can not comment.

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:42 pm

zerocoolok wrote:
kc2002acr wrote: I love it - the democrats want bush out as bad as the republicans wanted clinton out... Good luck Vermont!!! Now go back to assisting child preditors and not prosecuting criminals to the full extent of the law. Oh yeah, and make sure you continue to make laws from the bench instead of in the legislature.
Clinton didn't do anything wrong to the country, the conservatives tried to impeach him for something that was his personal business. Bush on the other hand has broken almost every law and treaty on the handling of prisoners of war (which the people at Guantanamo are) and torture there is to invade a country that we have no business being in. Clinton lied under oath, I know that, but he shouldn't have had to answer to that in the first place so that point is null.

+1 well said!

Chibits12 · Post by **Chibits12** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:24 pm

I don't want to start a flame fest myself but here are some key points that we should remember:

Bush - faulty intelligence on the Iraq War = lying under oath?
Clinton- his personal problem is no national problem=lying under oath?

I may be simplifying things too much but I think none of them lied under oath

zerocoolok · Post by **zerocoolok** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:41 pm

Cricky1224 wrote:I don't want to start a flame fest myself but here are some key points that we should remember:

Bush - faulty intelligence on the Iraq War = lying under oath?
Clinton- his personal problem is no national problem=lying under oath?

I may be simplifying things too much but I think none of them lied under oath

It has been proven that Bush knew about the faulty intel very early on and still used that as his excuse for going to war. This "war" is only about one thing, and that is OIL. Saddam threatened our supply of oil so we needed an excuse to go in there to eradicate him. On the other hand, Osama Bin Ladin is allowed to go free after having been a perfect shot from a sniper's scope many times (gotta love the freedom of information act). Why? It is because he is related to the Bin Ladin family of Saudi Arabia. We don't want to piss them off because we get a lot of our oil from them. Most of the terrorists from 9/11 were from there. We have a better reason to go invade Saudi Arabia than Iraq. They are a breeding ground for terrorism.

Bella Lugrossi · Post by **Bella Lugrossi** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:46 pm

buck fush.

J-Villa · Post by **J-Villa** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:50 pm

Bella Lugrossi wrote:buck fush.

boostinss · Post by **boostinss** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:53 pm

i dont konw a lot about politics or anything but from what i am hearing government seems sooo corrupt..

bige1030 · Post by **bige1030** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:11 pm

Too bad it was just a town meeting. I wonder: if it were a legislative meeting, would the Representatives of Vermont feel morally obligated to bring it up to Congress?

LowNSlow · Post by **LowNSlow** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:10 am

Bush = my boss ;D

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:47 am

I love how people say this war is about oil, when ion fact ever since the end of WWII it has been apart of the foreign policy of every president to make sure we have access to foreign oil from south america, middle east, and africa... why is it that NOW it is a big deal?? I dont get it. Read some history and you will find that Bush is not the first president to go to war or intervene in conflicts around the globe. Truman, by the way, was the one who started that - "Wherever aggression, direct or indirect, threatened peace, the security of the United States was involved." This doctrine of his basically gave the US the power to initiate unilateral action without consulting the UN, which is what we did in Iraq - a threat to our National Security? You better believe it missy! Look at what is being played out in Iran right now... same thing as before, the leader is snubbing its nose at the UN, basically shutting them out, continuing to do whatever they want to do, and making a mockery of the "so called governing body of the world"

The UN is a joke, and the US had plenty of reason to go in a destroy Saddam and his regime, even the ones (reasons) with false intel (which has still NOT been proven he knew was) - also, I must say it is pretty judgemental of someone to say "hey, you're a liar, and it is because I disagree with your beliefs".

Bottom line, this is about National Security, and I for one am willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to avoid having another 9/11 happen on our soil - if that means sacrificing some civil rights, than so be it - I know I am not a terrorist! Also, the aforementioned is not the first time that this has happened (so-called civil rights violations). Ellen Schrecker called it a "necessary evil". In the late 40's and 50's the US government did way more civil rights violations than the Bush admin has ever dreamed of doing. Joseph McCarthy ring any bells? What about Richard Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover? HUAC? The FBI and CIA?

The Bush admin has done nothing but prevent another attack on our soil like we had less than 6 years ago. People are just pissed because of the far right media reporting that spins the facts and is making a case based on agendas and politics.

And one more thing, lets just go ahead Nancy Pelosi, and pull the troops out of Iraq, now, cut the funding, and let it all come crumbling down, that way when the Democrats make their bid for presidency in 2008, you can say "Well, look how screwed up the Republicans are!! The totally flubbed it in Iraq, and we told you from the beginning it was a mistake - even though most Democrats approved of it (:cough: John Kerry, Hillary Clinton :cough:)" It is all political now - the problem we have is that the people in Iraq ARE free, it is a few extremists who believe that everyone (not just Americans and Bush followers, you too Democrats) who is not muslim or arab needs to die. Yeah, lets let them take over after twe cut funding and pull out; and believe me, they will. The problem is, the Democrats have no plan, so the best plan is to point the finger, play the blame game, and cause more problems than good - I bet the soldiers love it when they hear about what the politicians who are supposed to support them sit back and demonize them - I know my brother feels that way.

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:25 am

kc2002acr wrote: - if that means sacrificing some civil rights, than so be it - .

How far are you willing to go? If sombody told you tomarrow that you cant have this discussion or own a wepon or dirve a small car because all of these could be looked upon as supporting terriorsim(sp) wouldn't you be upset. People are not allowed to bring shampoo on a plane yet Bin Laden is still running free (personialy I think he died allready). If you look at the rights that the modern government has stepped all over all ready I cant give up a single one more.

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:39 am

kc2002acr wrote:I love how people say this war is about oil, when ion fact ever since the end of WWII it has been apart of the foreign policy of every president to make sure we have access to foreign oil from south America, middle east, and Africa... why is it that NOW it is a big deal?? I don't get it. Read some history and you will find that Bush is not the first president to go to war or intervene in conflicts around the globe. Truman, by the way, was the one who started that - "Wherever aggression, direct or indirect, threatened peace, the security of the United States was involved." This doctrine of his basically gave the US the power to initiate unilateral action without consulting the UN, which is what we did in Iraq - a threat to our National Security? You better believe it missy! Look at what is being played out in Iran right now... same thing as before, the leader is snubbing its nose at the UN, basically shutting them out, continuing to do whatever they want to do, and making a mockery of the "so called governing body of the world" The UN is a joke, and the US had plenty of reason to go in a destroy Saddam and his regime, even the ones (reasons) with false intel (which has still NOT been proven he knew was) - also, I must say it is pretty judgemental of someone to say "hey, you're a liar, and it is because I disagree with your beliefs".

Bottom line, this is about National Security, and I for one am willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to avoid having another 9/11 happen on our soil - if that means sacrificing some civil rights, than so be it - I know I am not a terrorist! Also, the aforementioned is not the first time that this has happened (so-called civil rights violations). Ellen Schrecker called it a "necessary evil". In the late 40's and 50's the US government did way more civil rights violations than the Bush admin has ever dreamed of doing. Joseph McCarthy ring any bells? What about Richard Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover? HUAC? The FBI and CIA? The Bush admin has done nothing but prevent another attack on our soil like we had less than 6 years ago. People are just pissed because of the far right media reporting that spins the facts and is making a case based on agendas and politics.

And one more thing, lets just go ahead Nancy Pelosi, and pull the troops out of Iraq, now, cut the funding, and let it all come crumbling down, that way when the Democrats make their bid for presidency in 2008, you can say "Well, look how screwed up the Republicans are!! The totally flubbed it in Iraq, and we told you from the beginning it was a mistake - even though most Democrats approved of it (:cough: John Kerry, Hillary Clinton :cough:)" It is all political now - the problem we have is that the people in Iraq ARE free, it is a few extremists who believe that everyone (not just Americans and Bush followers, you too Democrats) who is not Muslim or Arab needs to die. Yeah, lets let them take over after we cut funding and pull out; and believe me, they will. The problem is, the Democrats have no plan, so the best plan is to point the finger, play the blame game, and cause more problems than good - I bet the soldiers love it when they hear about what the politicians who are supposed to support them sit back and demonize them - I know my brother feels that way.

I AGREE TOTALY.

SX_2.0_Monkey · Post by **SX_2.0_Monkey** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:58 am

I dont like bush. clean shaven for me!

I'm not completely sure of all the facts (neither does bush!) (just sayin! lol but I just heard on the radio that his approval rate is at 35%? sounds like you guys like him!

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:37 am

zerocoolok wrote:
kc2002acr wrote: I love it - the democrats want bush out as bad as the republicans wanted clinton out... Good luck Vermont!!! Now go back to assisting child preditors and not prosecuting criminals to the full extent of the law. Oh yeah, and make sure you continue to make laws from the bench instead of in the legislature.
Clinton didn't do anything wrong to the country, the conservatives tried to impeach him for something that was his personal business. Bush on the other hand has broken almost every law and treaty on the handling of prisoners of war (which the people at Guantanamo are) and torture there is to invade a country that we have no business being in. Clinton lied under oath, I know that, but he shouldn't have had to answer to that in the first place so that point is null.

Zero, how about you drink a mug of STFU, dont say shit about mistreating POW's, F*CK them..they are cutting off heads of Americans.

LowNSlow wrote:Bush = my boss ;D

^ What he said.

I honestly don't know what to say about how all you people feel about our President, wich btw this president was voted in twice already, he must be doing something right.
Honestly people stop with the whole bush a war hungry tyrant set out to capture all the oil, michael moore fanboy's make me sick.

To agree with what KC said about his brother, As a Soldier.. it kills me to hear that the politicians were even toying with the idea of cutting funding.... and making us sound like we are over there killing anything that moves.. its acutally the opposite.. the rule of engagement over there are really strict and thats what gets people killed sometimes.. Im suppose to deploy in June and i will tell you one thing i know im leaving a country that does not support what im doing but i know what im doing is the right thing.. to help a country gain control of itself so they can enjoy being free.. something that america has known since we were founded.
Freedom isnt free people, as you sit in your comfy couch watching your far right propaganda take a minute think about the soldiers,marines,airmen and sailors trying to stay alive.

Bella Lugrossi · Post by **Bella Lugrossi** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:57 am

lemme say this. i love our military and appreciate all the hard work they all do. but that doesn't mean i have to like your boss. and as for doing something right, it is beyond me that he made it in office again. he's not a great president, hell he isn't even a good one. so to make sure you all understand this. military good, leader lame.

boostinss · Post by **boostinss** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:12 am

neonpla wrote:
zerocoolok wrote:
kc2002acr wrote: I love it - the democrats want bush out as bad as the republicans wanted clinton out... Good luck Vermont!!! Now go back to assisting child preditors and not prosecuting criminals to the full extent of the law. Oh yeah, and make sure you continue to make laws from the bench instead of in the legislature.
Clinton didn't do anything wrong to the country, the conservatives tried to impeach him for something that was his personal business. Bush on the other hand has broken almost every law and treaty on the handling of prisoners of war (which the people at Guantanamo are) and torture there is to invade a country that we have no business being in. Clinton lied under oath, I know that, but he shouldn't have had to answer to that in the first place so that point is null.
Zero, how about you drink a mug of STFU, dont say shit about mistreating POW's, F*CK them..they are cutting off heads of Americans.

LowNSlow wrote:Bush = my boss ;D
^ What he said.

I honestly don't know what to say about how all you people feel about our President, wich btw this president was voted in twice already, he must be doing something right.
Honestly people stop with the whole bush a war hungry tyrant set out to capture all the oil, michael moore fanboy's make me sick.

To agree with what KC said about his brother, As a Soldier.. it kills me to hear that the politicians were even toying with the idea of cutting funding.... and making us sound like we are over there killing anything that moves.. its acutally the opposite.. the rule of engagement over there are really strict and thats what gets people killed sometimes.. Im suppose to deploy in June and i will tell you one thing i know im leaving a country that does not support what im doing but i know what im doing is the right thing.. to help a country gain control of itself so they can enjoy being free.. something that america has known since we were founded.
Freedom isnt free people, as you sit in your comfy couch watching your far right propaganda take a minute think about the soldiers,marines,airmen and sailors trying to stay alive.

i soo agree with you neonpla

they are cutting off our heads and pulling our bodies behind cars..

and to my understanding i think the media is a huge problem in this war...all they tell is the bad things

a Marine came into my school telling us all the media does is tell all the bad things...what the media doesnt tell you is that the US has built hundreds of new schools, buildings, set up a police force and all these other good things for Iraq.

i think the Meda is all bullshit

zerocoolok · Post by **zerocoolok** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:39 am

The politicians want to get the soldiers out of there plain and simple. How many more of our brothers, sisters, moms, dads, uncles, aunts, and cousins have to die before you realize that this war is a hoot. THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT TERRORISM! NONE OF THE HIJACKERS WERE FROM IRAQ! Personally I am glad Saddam is dead and think it should have been done long ago (like when Bush's dad was president), but I still think that we should not have even stepped foot in Iraq. Let them have their civil war (which is going to happen regardless if we're there or not) then clean up the mess. Now why didn't we do that? It is because our supply of oil would have been threatened. These people have been fighting for over a thousand years against each other and YOU think you can make a difference? And YES I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, JUST NOT BUSH. My brother in law is deployed in Afghanistan for a year after have been in Iraq.

neonpla wrote:
Zero, how about you drink a mug of STFU, dont say shit about mistreating POW's, F*CK them..they are cutting off heads of Americans.

And you wonder why they are sooo pissed off at us. Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite? You don't want them to do that to you but you are ok with doing it to them. We should be setting an example. We should also be following the Geneva Conventions. But we don't. Why? It's because of people like you. The fact is that 95% of the POW's we have from this war are INNOCENT! So why punish them for something that they didn't do? Why not let them have rights to trial? We don't want the media knowing that we royally screwed up. Well news flash - TOO LATE! And I realize that the media is really screwed up here, but if we really wanted to see it all then we would see more of the stuff you don't want us to see. The media always covers our soldiers dying from car bombs and such but we don't see the other side of that. I wonder why

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:54 am

kc2002acr wrote:I love how people say this war is about oil, when ion fact ever since the end of WWII it has been apart of the foreign policy of every president to make sure we have access to foreign oil from south america, middle east, and africa... why is it that NOW it is a big deal?? I dont get it. Read some history and you will find that Bush is not the first president to go to war or intervene in conflicts around the globe. Truman, by the way, was the one who started that - "Wherever aggression, direct or indirect, threatened peace, the security of the United States was involved." This doctrine of his basically gave the US the power to initiate unilateral action without consulting the UN, which is what we did in Iraq - a threat to our National Security? You better believe it missy! Look at what is being played out in Iran right now... same thing as before, the leader is snubbing its nose at the UN, basically shutting them out, continuing to do whatever they want to do, and making a mockery of the "so called governing body of the world" The UN is a joke, and the US had plenty of reason to go in a destroy Saddam and his regime, even the ones (reasons) with false intel (which has still NOT been proven he knew was) - also, I must say it is pretty judgemental of someone to say "hey, you're a liar, and it is because I disagree with your beliefs".

Bottom line, this is about National Security, and I for one am willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to avoid having another 9/11 happen on our soil - if that means sacrificing some civil rights, than so be it - I know I am not a terrorist! Also, the aforementioned is not the first time that this has happened (so-called civil rights violations). Ellen Schrecker called it a "necessary evil". In the late 40's and 50's the US government did way more civil rights violations than the Bush admin has ever dreamed of doing. Joseph McCarthy ring any bells? What about Richard Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover? HUAC? The FBI and CIA? The Bush admin has done nothing but prevent another attack on our soil like we had less than 6 years ago. People are just pissed because of the far right media reporting that spins the facts and is making a case based on agendas and politics.

And one more thing, lets just go ahead Nancy Pelosi, and pull the troops out of Iraq, now, cut the funding, and let it all come crumbling down, that way when the Democrats make their bid for presidency in 2008, you can say "Well, look how screwed up the Republicans are!! The totally flubbed it in Iraq, and we told you from the beginning it was a mistake - even though most Democrats approved of it (:cough: John Kerry, Hillary Clinton :cough:)" It is all political now - the problem we have is that the people in Iraq ARE free, it is a few extremists who believe that everyone (not just Americans and Bush followers, you too Democrats) who is not muslim or arab needs to die. Yeah, lets let them take over after twe cut funding and pull out; and believe me, they will. The problem is, the Democrats have no plan, so the best plan is to point the finger, play the blame game, and cause more problems than good - I bet the soldiers love it when they hear about what the politicians who are supposed to support them sit back and demonize them - I know my brother feels that way.

Amen.
Kc2002ACR knows whats really up.

zerocoolok · Post by **zerocoolok** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:17 pm

kc2002acr wrote:I love how people say this war is about oil, when ion fact ever since the end of WWII it has been apart of the foreign policy of every president to make sure we have access to foreign oil from south america, middle east, and africa... why is it that NOW it is a big deal?? I dont get it. Read some history and you will find that Bush is not the first president to go to war or intervene in conflicts around the globe. Truman, by the way, was the one who started that - "Wherever aggression, direct or indirect, threatened peace, the security of the United States was involved." This doctrine of his basically gave the US the power to initiate unilateral action without consulting the UN, which is what we did in Iraq - a threat to our National Security? You better believe it missy! Look at what is being played out in Iran right now... same thing as before, the leader is snubbing its nose at the UN, basically shutting them out, continuing to do whatever they want to do, and making a mockery of the "so called governing body of the world" The UN is a joke, and the US had plenty of reason to go in a destroy Saddam and his regime, even the ones (reasons) with false intel (which has still NOT been proven he knew was) - also, I must say it is pretty judgemental of someone to say "hey, you're a liar, and it is because I disagree with your beliefs".

Bottom line, this is about National Security, and I for one am willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to avoid having another 9/11 happen on our soil - if that means sacrificing some civil rights, than so be it - I know I am not a terrorist! Also, the aforementioned is not the first time that this has happened (so-called civil rights violations). Ellen Schrecker called it a "necessary evil". In the late 40's and 50's the US government did way more civil rights violations than the Bush admin has ever dreamed of doing. Joseph McCarthy ring any bells? What about Richard Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover? HUAC? The FBI and CIA? The Bush admin has done nothing but prevent another attack on our soil like we had less than 6 years ago. People are just pissed because of the far right media reporting that spins the facts and is making a case based on agendas and politics.

And one more thing, lets just go ahead Nancy Pelosi, and pull the troops out of Iraq, now, cut the funding, and let it all come crumbling down, that way when the Democrats make their bid for presidency in 2008, you can say "Well, look how screwed up the Republicans are!! The totally flubbed it in Iraq, and we told you from the beginning it was a mistake - even though most Democrats approved of it (:cough: John Kerry, Hillary Clinton :cough:)" It is all political now - the problem we have is that the people in Iraq ARE free, it is a few extremists who believe that everyone (not just Americans and Bush followers, you too Democrats) who is not muslim or arab needs to die. Yeah, lets let them take over after twe cut funding and pull out; and believe me, they will. The problem is, the Democrats have no plan, so the best plan is to point the finger, play the blame game, and cause more problems than good - I bet the soldiers love it when they hear about what the politicians who are supposed to support them sit back and demonize them - I know my brother feels that way.

So to sum up all of that you're basically saying that just because historically we did it means it's ok to do it now? How was going into Iraq preventing another war on our soil? Iraq is half a world and half a century behind us. Saudi Arabia is a breeding ground for terrorism and yet we aren't going in there. How is wanting the soldiers out of Iraq demonizing them? The only soldiers i have heard demonized by the politicians were the ones that tortured the prisoners at Guantanamo. I AM GLAD THEY GOT PUNISHED. The Iraqi people see us doing that and you wonder why they are cutting our heads off?

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:42 pm

zerocoolok wrote:The politicians want to get the soldiers out of there plain and simple. How many more of our brothers, sisters, moms, dads, uncles, aunts, and cousins have to die before you realize that this war is a hoot.

The politicians want them out, but not just pull funding like some extremists wanna do (Kerry, Pelosi, Clinton, that fat slob from Massachusettes) - THAT is the wrong thing - the Bush admin is working with the Iraqi's to help them become independent, the problem is the media is playing this up as some HUGE LOSS for america, and ploiticians are running on the coattails - its about politics in washington, and its about rating ins the media, but in iraq its about freedom and lives.

zerocoolok wrote: THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT TERRORISM! NONE OF THE HIJACKERS WERE FROM IRAQ! Personally I am glad Saddam is dead and think it should have been done long ago (like when Bush's dad was president), but I still think that we should not have even stepped foot in Iraq.

It is too about terrorism.. its also about oil, and about freedom, and about getting rid of authoritarian govt's that got set up in the past because of bad policy and politics around the world, not just the US. Its alsop about big business and national security, as well as our future and yours. Bush's dad didn't do it because he didn't have any support because the frickin UN puss'd out, thats right, they suck, screw the UN. And how can you say in the same breathe you're glad saddam is gone, Bush Sr. should have done it, but we never should have stepped foot in Iraq? You're logic is messed up - Bush Sr. would have had the exact same problems as we are having now, but possibly worse because the Army of Saddam was not run down like it was when we went in. Those soldiers were battle trained and hardened. The people we fight in the street now are those who were around in Gulf War I.

zerocoolok wrote: Let them have their civil war (which is going to happen regardless if we're there or not) then clean up the mess. Now why didn't we do that? It is because our supply of oil would have been threatened.

So, lets not go in now, lets wait for a civil war to happen because we pull out, and then lets go in, like you disagreed with in the first place????? And hell yeah its about protecting the supply of oil - lets some madman, again, get ahold of it, sell it to iran and n. korea or even better trade it to them for nukes and have them bomb the crap out of NY, LA, Houston, Miami, Seatle, San Fran, KC, Chicago, Atlanta, somewhere... or even anywhere in the middle east like Israel... you know they are all people too.

zerocoolok wrote: These people have been fighting for over a thousand years against each other and YOU think you can make a difference?

Yeah, I do, the problem is that they fight about religion... and only because of a few extremists who feed people lives - they feed lies to people who are poor, upset, and out of work... usually displaced by their government or some big business because the regime in their country (NOT the US like media plays it up as) - the regime decides who stays and goes, who works and who doesn't... get some stability, freedom, and open the doors to trade and oil deals, and then get some money flowing in they can have the same opportunities as other free countries - then maybe the problems with the religion will fix themselves once the extremists having nothing to scream about.

zerocoolok wrote: And YES I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, JUST NOT BUSH. My brother in law is deployed in Afghanistan for a year after have been in Iraq.

Good man! You and your brother-in-law

zerocoolok wrote:
neonpla wrote: Zero, how about you drink a mug of STFU, dont say shit about mistreating POW's, F*CK them..they are cutting off heads of Americans.
And you wonder why they are sooo pissed off at us. Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite? You don't want them to do that to you but you are ok with doing it to them. We should be setting an example.

I do not recall us cutting off heads and dragging bodies through the dirt

How are we NOT setting the example? Oh, the few bad apples who got caught doing ludicrous stuff and were dealt with accordingly? Whose lives were ruined because they ruined others lives? Hmmm... sounds like the example of a free society that is also just and abides by laws... now once more, how is that hipocracy?

zerocoolok wrote: We should also be following the Geneva Conventions. But we don't. Why? It's because of people like you. The fact is that 95% of the POW's we have from this war are INNOCENT!

Innocent, huh? Really? Sure - ok - they were captured trying to kill our troops and civilians, or apart of Saddam's regime and refused to give up and were captured - so they are innocent? Wow, you just gave them their trial, judge and jury thanks. 95% is a great number you pulled out of your arse... I like that. Good one.

zerocoolok wrote: So why punish them for something that they didn't do? Why not let them have rights to trial?

The dont get rights to a trial in our country under civilian juries and judges which is what the politicians and some right wing (ACLU) groups want - sorry!!! You are not a civilian in my country, you are a prisoner of war! Military decides what happens to you - and honestly, they are helping give us more and more info every day to help understand and fight these other fools still free... not going to give up that really quick, huh? While the troops are still there, I say we use them and hold all the cards till the war is over.

zerocoolok wrote: We don't want the media knowing that we royally screwed up. Well news flash - TOO LATE! And I realize that the media is really screwed up here, but if we really wanted to see it all then we would see more of the stuff you don't want us to see. The media always covers our soldiers dying from car bombs and such but we don't see the other side of that. I wonder why

Did you know that more Iraqi's are trying to kill other Iraqi's and not our soldiers most of the time? Also, did you know that violence has subsided by some 80% since its high last year? Ahhh, I see, no... why? Media bias, that is why. Thats all I have to say about that stuff, because honestly, the media is corrupt, all of it - they all have bosses who have agendas and bottom line is "I wanna make money" so they are going to report on what they believe in and what they want to and leave other things out.

zerocoolok wrote:So to sum up all of that you're basically saying that just because historically we did it means it's ok to do it now? How was going into Iraq preventing another war on our soil? Iraq is half a world and half a century behind us. Saudi Arabia is a breeding ground for terrorism and yet we aren't going in there. How is wanting the soldiers out of Iraq demonizing them? The only soldiers i have heard demonized by the politicians were the ones that tortured the prisoners at Guantanamo. I AM GLAD THEY GOT PUNISHED. The Iraqi people see us doing that and you wonder why they are cutting our heads off?

I can see that with your response you have no idea about things in history or geography or even reading comprehension - this is the second time you have taken something I wrote and twisted it to fit your own personal feelings or agenda - typical liberal practice. Do me a favor and stop quoting me and then adding in your own little twist and spin.

FIRST I never said the because we did it in the past it makes it right now.
SECOND I never brought up the prisoners in my post - hello left field!
THIRD They cut our heads off because they are frickin crazy!! That is what they are taught to do, not because we do anything to them... they are fed propaganda just like what happened in Germany in WWII, and they follow it and believe it, and live by it - worse part is that religion is involved so dying for it is even more justified to them.
FOURTH Going into Iraq when we did prevented what is happening in Iran now and N. Korea. None of those fools need nukes, so they need to be dealt with. Besides, saying nothing about terrorism in Iraq is saying there aren't any Arabs in the middle east. Iraq has tons of camps that trained terrorists and were supported by Saddam.
FIFTH Saudi Arabia does something to quell the violence in their country, there is no need for us to go in there - there government, however we see it may be oppressive to women, religous intolerence, at leats takes car of their people - they use the money from oil to help grow infrastructure and educate their citizens, they dont put it into military advancement and terrorism - breeding ground no, terrorists coing out yes, but that is not the gov'ts fault, it is once more THE EXTREME MUSLIMS WHO PREACH DEATH TO AMERICA.

I'm through.

Chibits12 · Post by **Chibits12** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:39 pm

I agree that media is sometimes can be blamed. All we ever hear from them are people getting killed in bombings but you don't hear any newsflash about any actual progress going on in the country. For example, the northern part of Iraq mostly occupied by the Kurds is a semi-autonomous region that has always been peaceful, even during Saddam Hussein's rule. Do we ever hear about bombings up in the Kurd's region? No. Do we hear a lot about the progress over there? No. You can basically walk around over there without the fear of getting jacked up by bombs from terrorists.

My only gripe with the war against terrorism is we didn't put enough of our resources and effort in where the war against should really be: Afghanistan. There's so many overzealous terrorists that cross the boundary between Pakistan and Afghanistan. The terrain is too difficult to navigate and too big of an area to be carefully checked. Plus the fact some Pakistanis are helping these terrorists aren't helping the situation. I bet Bin Laden is even in Pakistan right now.

Saudi Arabia is an ally due to one word: oil. Let's not forget more than half of those terrorists in 9/11 were Saudis, none were Iraqis.
Saudi Arabia should be accountable and I don't understand why we don't try do dig up answers over there.

Remember, Saudi Arabia is a country where the only religion allowed is Islam and nothing else. Just the fact they follow the strict followings of Wahhabism is also a breeding ground for extremism. Just the fact that this country has a lot of money and they're intolerable towards other religion makes me question their real motives.

Also, Bin Laden's from Saudi Arabia.

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:13 pm

KC, you just laid it out man, Good job.

Mr Josh Zombie · Post by **Mr Josh Zombie** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:14 pm

bah! to much to read.... but I'm with Bella 100%

I appreciate the military. Alot of my school mates/family are over in Iraq right now. But I still hate out president.