UDP/ODP Question

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:30 pm

I have a 2002 sxt and I just installed the Mpx UDP. Love it by the way, I felt the difference instantly, quicker revs, A/C doesn't bog down as much, etc. However, I have heard that UDP's cause the alternator to wear out faster (not sure how because it's spinning slower now right?) Anyway, I have 2 500Watt speakers in the rear and 2 240Watts in the front along with a Panasonic head unit. So my question is will I run into electrical issues down the road? I ordered an ODP from lorenzo, but not sure if I really need it. Any thoughts?

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:46 pm

The only time I think it could be a problem is when you're just idling, if at all. I would throw on that ODP just for peace of mind.

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:26 pm

Yeah, I was leaning towards being on the safe side too. Any idea how much if at all that will detract from the gains i've gotten from the UDP?

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:50 am

Probably not much at all since it's just the alternator. The UDP is also much lighter than the stock unit, so some of the power gains come from that as well. You could always upgrade the alternator instead, not sure how much more it would cost though.

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 am

ok then, I think I'm going to just put on the ODP for now. And I'll look into an upgraded alternator as I progress. Any idea what belt size to use with my UDP/ODP combo?

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:06 pm

Backman4sakn wrote:Any idea what belt size to use with my UDP/ODP combo?

Check out Lorenzo's ODP thread on 'The.Org' ...... I am pretty sure he had the belt sizes listed there.

- Nick

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:20 pm

The SXT has a 120 amp alt. so I think you'll be fine. I'm really lovin' my UDP(Unorthodox Racing) and you're right about it not bogging down the A/C like the stock unit did. It had to be one of the best upgrades I've done to my car so far.

http://www.autozone.com/N,15700086//sho ... ultSet.htm

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:20 pm

Thanks. I found the belt sizes I needed here.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?p ... f6f045a450

excon · Post by **excon** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:29 am

I don't think a UDP will wear out the alternator faster... I could be wrong, but I have never heard of that happening.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:49 pm

excon wrote:I don't think a UDP will wear out the alternator faster... I could be wrong, but I have never heard of that happening.

I have never heard of that, either.

Maybe they were referring to alternator belts and not the alternator itself ??

Belt wear should not be a problem, either, if the pulley is installed properly and the belt is tensioned properly (not too big or too small for the application.)

- Nick

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:22 am

No, it wouldn't make sense if it did. Belts, I can understand, but I checked the fit after I installed it. They're solid.

IowaNeon04 · Post by **IowaNeon04** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:53 am

Electronically speaking, it is harder on your alternator. As the alternator spins slower, the potential electromotive force on it increases... more mechnical resistance to spin as a given amount of current draw remains constant, as compared to what it was at a higher RPM.

Generally speaking, alternators like producing high voltage, not high current. Higher current = more heat, and more heat can equal a premature failure, especially under heavy loads.

If everything was normal, I would say don't worry about it... but if you generally are pulling as much power as you say with your audio system and the UDP as well, I would suggest definitely looking into having your alternator rebuilt to at least 140 amps or more, or buying an aftermarket one. Putting a smaller pulley on the stock alternator may also do the trick...

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:41 am

thanks, im aware that the current draw is higher now. I've got the odp from lorenzo and its going on this weekend. to be honest, I don't fully know how much current I'm drawing and that was somethign else I was going to check this weekend as well (before and after)

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:46 pm

I was worried about it too and was goign to purchase an ODP back in the day.

I've had my UDP on for a while now and had 0 problems...even with my shitty everstart battery.

You should be fine. Make it a priority to upgrade your ground wires to atleast 4ag

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:53 pm

Yeah, that's definitely a good idea. I know the stock grounds are shitty. I think I stumbled on a post here some while back that had a do it yourself grounding upgrade thing.....

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:57 pm

Yeah, go to the flea market and get some fish eye connectors and the gauge wire. You can upgrade all your grounds for $10 or so. Screw those ebay overpriced kits. Usually 4ag is a $1 a foot, get about 6 feet to have some left over for other crap.

Either way, just get the UDP now and if you feel the need for the ODP you can always get it later. But I can tell you that if you upgrade your grounds you'll see a difference right away. Stock grounds are horse shit. Between crimping and replacing the old grounds you can be done in an hour.

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:01 pm

Thanks, I was skeptical of those "grounding kits". By the way, UDP is already installed and I've got the ODP waiting for me to do something with it. Thanks again for everything. I'll be making a trip to the store to pick up some wire and connectors.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:50 pm

I completely forgot about upgrading the ground wires, I'll have to get on that this week. Would 0 gauge wire be taking it too far? I got a 50' spool of monster cable for $25 when circuit city closed their store, so I think I have enough.

IowaNeon04 · Post by **IowaNeon04** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:58 pm

Donkeypuncher wrote:I completely forgot about upgrading the ground wires, I'll have to get on that this week. Would 0 gauge wire be taking it too far? I got a 50' spool of monster cable for $25 when circuit city closed their store, so I think I have enough.

50 feet of 0-AWG for $25??? Thats a steal!!! Um, yeah it would work, but that is definitely overkill... the extra weight of all the wire would probably end up hurting you, lol. I would say 4-AWG is just fine.

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:21 pm

Does anyone have a how to on upgrading grounds? I thought I saw one a long time ago, but I can't seem to find it.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:55 am

0awg...holy shit

It's really easy man, just cut the right size and crimp the ends. I can take some pics of my setup if needbe

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:27 am

I found some 8awg wire I can use for the smaller grounds, but I think I'll use the 0 for the battery.

There was a how-to made for a DIY grounding kit: http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=9909

It has some good info in there, but turns into argument/debate at the end and got locked.

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 am

How....Hahaha, they get pretty heated in there......

Backman4sakn · Post by **Backman4sakn** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:22 pm

Ok, another question, what size ring connector for the wires? I have found 1/2" and 3/8".

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:31 pm

Current draw on the system should be the same as before you installed the UDP unless you've changed the demands by installing a big ass amp for a stereo or something. As far as alt. output, most alts put max output at just off idle so as long as you keep the rpms up while you're driving, say around 2K you should be fine. Generators on the other hand put out more current the faster they spin but alts work fine at off idle.

IowaNeon04 · Post by **IowaNeon04** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:39 am

TN.Frank wrote:Current draw on the system should be the same as before you installed the UDP unless you've changed the demands by installing a big ass amp for a stereo or something. As far as alt. output, most alts put max output at just off idle so as long as you keep the rpms up while you're driving, say around 2K you should be fine. Generators on the other hand put out more current the faster they spin but alts work fine at off idle.

He did install a big-ass amp, a few of them actually. Regardless, as an Industrial Automation and Electronics Technician, I can tell you that current draw on the alternator will go up proportional to the rate that the alternator is producing amperage, which can only be increased or decreased by the rate that it is spinning. In other words, spinning the alternator slower will produce less supply of potential voltage/current under a specific load, which will in turn increase the electromotive force on the alternator. Under his circumstance, his alternator definitely will not probably realize its full potential across the RPM band, and the amount of current demand on the alternator will be more detrimental.

The alternator is a generator. The only big difference is that the alternator is regulated to stay in the vicinity of 14 VDC, through rectifiers. Other than that, its about the same. The faster you can spin the alternator, the more amperage it can produce, period.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:49 am

Either way an alt puts out it's max output at around 1500 rpm. Spinning it any faster won't get you any more out of it because of the built in regulator. Since most of us run our engines at around 2K rpm when driving you'll be getting all out of the alt that it'll give. Spinning it any faster won't make it make more power. Alts are A/C converted to DC by the reg and diodes, generators are DC so there is a big difference between the two. The ONLY place you'll lose any power with an UDP is at idle. During normal driving you'll get as much power out of your alt as with a normal pulley if the alt is working correctly.

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:42 am

^^^ Well Said. This is exactly true, unless your alternator is in bad shape, you shouldn't notice the difference in charge, while cruising.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:57 pm

Backman4sakn wrote:Ok, another question, what size ring connector for the wires? I have found 1/2" and 3/8".

I'm thinkin the 3/8 should be fine, but I haven't compared the two so I'm not positive. The bolts that hold the grounds are pretty small, so I think 3/8 should work.

IowaNeon04 · Post by **IowaNeon04** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:21 am

TN.Frank wrote:Either way an alt puts out it's max output at around 1500 rpm. Spinning it any faster won't get you any more out of it because of the built in regulator. Since most of us run our engines at around 2K rpm when driving you'll be getting all out of the alt that it'll give. Spinning it any faster won't make it make more power. Alts are A/C converted to DC by the reg and diodes, generators are DC so there is a big difference between the two. The ONLY place you'll lose any power with an UDP is at idle. During normal driving you'll get as much power out of your alt as with a normal pulley if the alt is working correctly.

What you say is very true. But the point I was trying to make is that because of his sound system, if he starves it for current at any RPM, or is just sitting at light, he will definitely notice the diff... maybe we were misunderstanding each other a bit.