Ebay chip,resistor mod,AIT mod,TPS mod.THEY DONT WORK......

This is the place to ask questions about your engine components like cams, valves, pistons… just anything that is generally "engine" specific. This also includes questions about exhaust systems such as exhaust manifolds, piping size, mufflers, ect...
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BlackRoseRacing
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Post by BlackRoseRacing » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:35 am

Not a Problem....
I plan on doing other tests like this in the future since I have the laptop and a gtech meter now...Some future tests.....
Spark Plugs (Stock VS Bocsh Plat VS Iridiums)
Plug wires (stock VS 8mm VS 9mm VS 10mm)
RamAIR VS Cold air
SRT-4 VS Glasspack VS Flowmaster Crossflow

You get my point, if anyone knows of any other type of a free mod that they want tested let me know....
As of 4/18/05 I'm testing the TPS mod, wich involves making your TPS adjustable for more power....we will see...lol
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ram50rocket
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Post by ram50rocket » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:27 am

you rock brr :headbang:
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89 Ram50 engine swap???
05 SRT-4 deburred
02 ACR, R.I.P. thx 4 nothin Insurance Co.
00 ES traded in 4 ACR
titansxt wrote:I hear the whats it called, Dodge Neon, is a good car.
you could probably go get your "umadbro" polished up to make it look like a new comeback again

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Post by RopeRat1 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:23 am

brr
Just a couple of points.

Controller engineers use a learned minimum TPS algorithm. The lowest TPS voltage the controller sees during a key-on cycle becomes the new minimum TPS setting. The minimum is relearned at each key-on. It can learn downward to a new min. TPS as the engine runs but it can't learn upward.

Changing from 14.5% to 19.5% at closed throttle is going to keep the controller from going into the closed throttle adaptive memory cells (cells 13/14) because the controller does not see the learned minimum voltage it saw at key-on. Setting it to read 14% on the control panel before key-on will make that setting the new min. TPS voltage. The controller uses that min. voltage baseline for WOT calculation which maxes out at 100%.

Side Note. Both cells are used on atx cars. Cell 13 is used closed throttle idle in P/N and cell 14 is used in D/R. Cell 13 only is used on mtx cars. Also, some packages used cells 15/16 for closed throttle decel. Not every car will get cells 15/16.

Also, remember what controller engineers are trying to do with the O2 sensors and adaptive memory. The goal to meet emissions requirements, fuel mileage standards, and customer drivability demands at the same time.

The pulsewidth calculation is as follows:

{RPM/Max RPM x MAP/BARO} x ECT x TPS x IAT x Batt Volts xO2 = base pulsewidth x [ST x LT] = PULSEWIDTH

The bracketed factors are for Speed Density. This is the calculated air flow into the engine instead of measuring it with a Mass Airflow Sensor. This is what is needed to make the engine run.

ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) is used for cold starts, warmup, and now OBD II requirements. It is the 2nd most important sensor reading.

TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is used for % throttle opening and rate of throttle angle change.

IAT (Intake Air Temp Sensor) adds fuel in extremely cold weather to help prevent sags, stumbles, hesitations, etc. This is why CAIs can kill fuel mileage during the winter.

Battery Volts increases pulsewidth when the battery voltage goes low. Low voltage causes injector opening to be slower and not open quite as far so the pulsewidth needs to be longer.

O2 (Upstream Oxygen Sensor) is to keep the engine as close to stiochiometric (the theoretically perfect air/fuel ratio) as possible. The downstream sensor is for OBD II Catalyst Efficiency Monitor only. It has no bearing on engine operation.

ST (Short Term Adaptive Memory) is used in closed loop operation (when the controller is using O2 sensor readings) only. An fast sensor switch rate is needed to keep the air/fuel mixture as close to stoich as possible. When the sensor shows lean, short term goes <pos> to add fuel. When the sensor shows rich, short term goes <neg> to remove fuel.

LT (Long Term Adaptive Memory) is used under all engine operating conditions. It's function is to keep short term memory +/- 3-5% fuel correction so it can switch <pos>/<neg> and keep the O2 sensor switch rate high.

SBEC III controllers use a 25% max correction which means ST and LT can each add/remove 25% to the pulsewidth calculation. A <pos> number means the controller is adding fuel to the calculation. A <neg> number means the controller removes fuel from the calculation.


There is one (1) short term adaptive memory cell and 14-16 long term memory cells. Each cell is for a specific rpm/engine load range.

Look at the Adaptive Memory screen on a DRB III or other scan tool.

There is two rows of cells; even numbers in the lower row (idle rpm to approx. 2000 rpm) and odd numbers in the upper row (appro. 2000 rpm-up). Cells 13/14 and 15/16 I described earlier.

The cells are also divided vertically and each vertical column is a specific engine load according to MAP voltage. Cells 1/2 are balls-to-the-wall WOT and cells 11/12 are minimum engine load just off-idle.


Go back and do your tests again. Put each resistance back in and read the IAT temperature in degrees and the sensor voltage and tell us what they are. Colder temps (higher resistance/voltage) are going to give more <pos> readings in the memory cells. Do these at idle so you're changing that one cell only instead of being all over the screen. Leave the resistance in long enough and the long term will nearly max out while short term moves back to +/- 3-5%.

The reason your tests didn't work is the adaptive memories are bringing the air/fuel ratio back to stoich and changing rpm/engine loads are bouncing the long term adaptive memory from cell to cell.


Hope I didn't get too long-winded.
Jonathan (RopeRat1)

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BlackRoseRacing
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Post by BlackRoseRacing » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:08 pm

GOD DAMN....someone knows there SH&T!!!!
FYI you know the saying,
Im a jack of all trades and a MASTER OF NONE!!!

Im just the typical backyard mechanic thats learning as they go...It sounds like your either a computer programer or a TECH that is VERY good at diagnostics. The tests im doing are what any other person on this forum can do. My goal is to say hey, this so called bolt on HP works or does not. Im not as precise as you sound, but I try to do the best I can and learn as I go...just like everyone else.
I dont want someone to goto ebay and BUY a $20 25HP mod to find out it does not work. I dont want someone taking there airbox lid off thinking thats giving them more HP....thats all im doing...I'll take the time and do the drive time and monitoring to see if a resistor or TPS mod actually makes more HP or does CAI VS stock actually create more HP.
IT sounds like you know your stuff, you would not want to give me some titbits on what to look for when I do these tests...would you? What should I look for, what to monitor etc.etc....No I do not have a $3000 DRBIII to work with.....but I always try to use what ive got...I have gotton 410hp out of 2.2 daytona(dyno tested) out of backyard bolt ons....but like I said above, I do trial and errors and post it when I can....
Are you willing to help with tests at all? no time? I do this stuff on the weekends as a way of relaxing from the work week, I love to try to extract every lil HP as cheap as possible and have someway to prove it. Let me know if you are interested in helping someway, if not.. thanks for your post......
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BlackRoseRacing
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Post by BlackRoseRacing » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:03 pm

lol...im replying to myself, this is cool...
Anyways
I re-read several times on what he had posted and he brings up a good point...I was not monitoring the correct sensors for the test, BUT even though I WAS monitoring the wrong sensors, the Gtech meter still showed that there was no gains in the AIT sensor mod.
I tried a test this morning on how accurate this Gtech meter actually was and I was IMPRESSED!!! Today I tested 0-60 and 1/4 mile with this meter and it does not ask for vehicle weight! Now I was quite sceptical on how acurate the readings were UNTIL I saw the so called 1/4 mile trap speed. It was exactly the SAME speed I let off the throttle when the meter said my quarter mile was up......I could not believe it, it stated 16.1 1/4 at 81.6 miles per hour....thats exactly the speed I was at when I let off the throttle!!!
Hell 0-60 posted at 8.3sec..C-ya
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Post by alabama.tuner0315 » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:39 am

Hey have anyone tried a sm-5.1 advance boost chip? I bought it because its a easy bolt on. I don't much about a neon because i just took it over today my other car is a 99 accent. :arrow:
:evil5: Jonathan:uptosomething:

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Post by BlackRoseRacing » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:20 pm

looks like another resistor mod...... :?
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FinalSomnia
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Post by FinalSomnia » Tue May 01, 2007 3:59 am

Yeah, I used to cruise a Mistubishi Lancer forum (that's what I wanted to drive before) and someone had this awesome sig -

"Oh noes how will you beat him?! He's got a variable resistor!"

Everyone should know you get what you pay for, really. Just my two cents.
I have no idea what you are talking about. So here is me thinking about that picture of a rabbit with a pancake on its head.
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Post by keeders08 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:43 am

DjTransifi wrote:Now correct me if I'm wrong, those numbers look close to a stock 04-05 SE, SXT..? Is that right?? Should you be putting down more power than that?? That just doesn't sound right. What was your highest run and how many times did you do it?
I think car companies measure HP and TQ at the crank... honestly. Becuz u could take a brand new Neon SXT and run it on a dyno and its not gonna pump no 132HP lol... its just not going to. I mean thats my opinion on the subject. Just doesn't seem like it would do that. I want to dyno my car now, damn.. =(
Keeders
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Formerly Of Warner Robins/Bonaire, Ga
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Post by blueneo03 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:56 pm

alright so i know that this is an old ass post.. but i wanted to ask what the software and wiring you have on the computer is, and what it allows you to do? and how it tests hp.. cuz i would love to get my hands on some of that to test my neon..
Thanks
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2003 neon se crashed
1998 neon highline Sold
2005 neon sxtSold


"Sorry you are so scared of a possible mechanical problem that you will drive an ugly transportation appliance. I'll keep living a colorful life." -some guy about a camry

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BlackRoseRacing
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Post by BlackRoseRacing » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:58 am

Back then....
ELM OBD2 adapter(first version)
FREE ELM software
GTECH performance meter

Currently I use the latest ELM adapter with PalmerPerformance software and my Acer Aspire One netbook.For measuring HP, there's nothing better than a dyno,but I'm currently using my cell phone with software from:
http://www.extreme-apps.com/
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