turbo help! edited for more ?'s

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:14 am

i edited this post because i have more questions. maybe dingor/t or glasswars can post here to help me out.

I want to run between 5 and 10 psi on stock internals.. i have asked around, and for the most part understand what all i will need.

First off, whats a good turbo that will last awhile? but i dont want one that cost an arm and a leg.

I plan on running around 8psi on stock internals, beating the crap out of it until it blows up, and then building a motor.

So basically my questions are:

1)what do i need fuel wise for 8psi? injectors, fuel pump, etc...
2)whats a good turbo that will work from 5psi to around 20psi?
3)where do you run the oil feed line from? ive seen it come from where the oil filter is, but i didnt know if that was the ideal spot.
4) whats the best manifold to get? ive seen erick is selling sohc manifolds, but wasnt sure if their was a cheaper option.

i think thats most of my questions as of right now.. if anybody has anything to add to it be my guest.. Just please leave out your comments about how i should just buy an srt because it isnt going to happen. Money isnt so much the issue with my new job, but im still looking to save money wherever i can.

-Cody

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:26 am

Safe Psi depends on the size of the turbo. 10psi on an srt turbo is alot less airflow then 10psi on a 50 trim.

Pretty sure you will need bigger then 24lb injectors.
Also need wastegate, oil lines, something else I can't think of atm I'm sure.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:34 am

heydockyle wrote:Safe Psi depends on the size of the turbo. 10psi on an srt turbo is alot less airflow then 10psi on a 50 trim.

Pretty sure you will need bigger then 24lb injectors.
Also need wastegate, oil lines, something else I can't think of atm I'm sure.

when i say safe psi, im talking about stock bottom end wise. I dont see where turbo size would make a difference in that..
I know you need an oil feed line, but ive seen people tap into there coolant hardlines when they turbo their car.. my question is, why?

Post by **racer12306** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:51 am

Turbo size plays a huge factor in how much an engine can take.

Think of it more in CFM (cubic feet per minute) than PSI.

Say an SRT turbo at 10psi flows 500CFM. Compare that to a 50 trim that flows 800CFM at 10psi.

Flowing 800CFM rather than 500CFM is a huge difference.

These are just random numbers for comparison to make a point.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Mon May 30, 2011 12:10 pm

racer12306 wrote:Turbo size plays a huge factor in how much an engine can take.

Think of it more in CFM (cubic feet per minute) than PSI.

Say an SRT turbo at 10psi flows 500CFM. Compare that to a 50 trim that flows 800CFM at 10psi.

Flowing 800CFM rather than 500CFM is a huge difference.

These are just random numbers for comparison to make a point.

so would a bigger turbo or a smaller turbo be better for 8psi?

boostalot717 · Post by **boostalot717** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:28 pm

coolant lines are for water cooled turbos.

PSI is nothing more than a number and means NOTHING as far as what your engine will take. You need to be looking more at cylinder pressure.

You are going to need much more than what you have on the list. Mainly someway to tune the timing and air-fuel ratio. This requires a lot of knowledge or a lot of money to pay someone to tune/dyno your car.

To start I would suggest you take a deep look into what it is going to take to turbocharge your NGC 2.0. Then take a look at buying a used SRT-4.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:32 pm

boostalot717 wrote:coolant lines are for water cooled turbos.

PSI is nothing more than a number and means NOTHING as far as what your engine will take. You need to be looking more at cylinder pressure.

You are going to need much more than what you have on the list. Mainly someway to tune the timing and air-fuel ratio. This requires a lot of knowledge or a lot of money to pay someone to tune/dyno your car.

To start I would suggest you take a deep look into what it is going to take to turbocharge your NGC 2.0. Then take a look at buying a used SRT-4.

srt's cost wayyyy too much. And on top of that, i'd rather have my car.
right now, Its between boosting my car or running spray.

UriahRR · Post by **UriahRR** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:39 pm

Spray away man.

Srt's do still cost WAAAAY too much, but going turbo is going to cost the same amount, whether you want it to or not. Just go spray. $700 and you're set, only chance of motor damage if you're on the button and usually only if you're RPMs are too high, whereas trubos can cause damage at any point. Nitrous - more reliable, but much more limited.

Neon4Life · Post by **Neon4Life** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:54 pm

Just do an srt4 swap. Don't try to turbo your car the cheap way. Seems like ur wanting boost but not willing ti spend money to do it the rite way. The cheapest you could go on bossting parts is like $2k I think.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:59 pm

Neon4Life wrote:Just do an srt4 swap. Don't try to turbo your car the cheap way. Seems like ur wanting boost but not willing ti spend money to do it the rite way. The cheapest you could go on bossting parts is like $2k I think.

if i could find the srt turbo adapter i could have the whole thing setup for around 500$

my buddy would give me his old turbo, wastegate, manifold, intercooler, etc..

the reason i didnt srt swap my car was because everybody and their mother has an srt swap in their 2gn. I like to be different.

UriahRR · Post by **UriahRR** » Mon May 30, 2011 5:08 pm

XxWhiteNeonxX wrote:everybody and their mother has an srt swap in their 2gn. I like to be different.

... I think there's a reason for that. I believe it's called cash to power ratio, and the SRT swap has a lot more power to give.

boostalot717 · Post by **boostalot717** » Mon May 30, 2011 5:12 pm

srt's cost wayyyy too much. And on top of that, i'd rather have my car.
right now, Its between boosting my car or running spray.[/quote]

If a SRT-4 cost way to much than putting a turbo on your car is going to cost way to much.

Not sure what your goals are but being different will generally put you on the wrong side of price vs. HP/TQ.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Mon May 30, 2011 5:16 pm

boostalot717 wrote:srt's cost wayyyy too much. And on top of that, i'd rather have my car.
right now, Its between boosting my car or running spray.

If a SRT-4 cost way to much than putting a turbo on your car is going to cost way to much.

Not sure what your goals are but being different will generally put you on the wrong side of price vs. HP/TQ.[/quote]

all i want is a simple turbo setup to run on 5lbs. nothing huge. and trust me, i know srt pricing very well. my dads a dealer and i can get them cheaper than most people.

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Mon May 30, 2011 10:48 pm

Like I said before, the size of the turbo decides the airflow. More airflow, the more power.

There is no safe psi to run on your bottom end. You hear people say oh 8 lbs is fine on a stock bottom end. Yea well, not if you are using a 78 trim turbo.

Psi stands for pounds per square inch. Well 10lbs on an srt turbo (Not real numbers, only example) is 10 pounds of air, across 2 inches. Well on a 50 trim turbo, 10 psi is 10 pounds of air across 4 inches. This generates more air being pushed in with a bigger turbo utilizing 4 inches then one using 2 inches. Get it?

You first need to figure out what size turbo you want to run, then go from there. You want quick power. Srt size turbo is where you want to be.

stairmaster3001 · Post by **stairmaster3001** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:04 pm

XxWhiteNeonxX wrote:
boostalot717 wrote:coolant lines are for water cooled turbos.

PSI is nothing more than a number and means NOTHING as far as what your engine will take. You need to be looking more at cylinder pressure.

You are going to need much more than what you have on the list. Mainly someway to tune the timing and air-fuel ratio. This requires a lot of knowledge or a lot of money to pay someone to tune/dyno your car.

To start I would suggest you take a deep look into what it is going to take to turbocharge your NGC 2.0. Then take a look at buying a used SRT-4.
srt's cost wayyyy too much. And on top of that, i'd rather have my car.
right now, Its between boosting my car or running spray.

trust me i thought about turbo-ing my 05 sxt but the cost is too much and then you throw your cars reliability out the window. I gave up on "trying" to make my ngc 2.0L fast and bought a srt4 and now i have plenty of power. no worrys

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:37 pm

stairmaster3001 wrote:
XxWhiteNeonxX wrote:
boostalot717 wrote:coolant lines are for water cooled turbos.

PSI is nothing more than a number and means NOTHING as far as what your engine will take. You need to be looking more at cylinder pressure.

You are going to need much more than what you have on the list. Mainly someway to tune the timing and air-fuel ratio. This requires a lot of knowledge or a lot of money to pay someone to tune/dyno your car.

To start I would suggest you take a deep look into what it is going to take to turbocharge your NGC 2.0. Then take a look at buying a used SRT-4.
srt's cost wayyyy too much. And on top of that, i'd rather have my car.
right now, Its between boosting my car or running spray.
trust me i thought about turbo-ing my 05 sxt but the cost is too much and then you throw your cars reliability out the window. I gave up on "trying" to make my ngc 2.0L fast and bought a srt4 and now i have plenty of power. no worrys

its not so much about reliability or the money for me. first, i love my car. it could go through 10 motors in a week and i would still love it

2nd, reliability isnt really an issue because this isnt going to be my dd. If i can find somebody to inspect it then it will be my weekend warrior.. If not, ill just tow it back and forth to the track/shows..

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:40 pm

Totally fictionnal numbers vv

Take 3 turbos. A TD04 (SRT turbo), a 50trim and a Zeta3.2

Use them at 5 psi.

SRT Turbo @ 5 PSI = 200WHP
Safe for the stock bottom end but maybe the clutch won't last long

50trim @ 5psi = 250WHP
May still be safe but you're taking chances here. Need a clutch for sure.

Zeta3.2 @ 5psi = 300WHP
BOOM

Totally fictionnal numbers ^^

It all depends on the turbo size, not the amount of PSI you're pushing through the engine.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:12 pm

glasswars · Post by **glasswars** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:18 pm

Dont have time to say much atm, but I will tell you that you are much better off running a bigger turbo then a smaller one... why? Less torque. Torque is what is gonna pop the motor quicker than horsepower..... and a bigger turbo will spool slower, bringing on the power more gradually towards the top end where it is safer to be boosting anyway. Your better off with a bigger one anyway... hardly any wheel spin with a good set of tires.

My turbo is huge, and I have been boosting 6 psi for 2 years, 10k miles no problem.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:34 pm

glasswars wrote:Dont have time to say much atm, but I will tell you that you are much better off running a bigger turbo then a smaller one... why? Less torque. Torque is what is gonna pop the motor quicker than horsepower..... and a bigger turbo will spool slower, bringing on the power more gradually towards the top end where it is safer to be boosting anyway. Your better off with a bigger one anyway... hardly any wheel spin with a good set of tires.

My turbo is huge, and I have been boosting 6 psi for 2 years, 10k miles no problem.

what exact turbo are you running?

edit:

anyway you could send me a list of what company stuff you have? I'd like to get a similar setup since youve had good luck with it for 2 years.

Id really appreciate it.

-Cody

on a side note, this kind of confuses me because everybody else said a bigger turbo is easier to pop a motor vs a smaller one.

i trust what your saying, its just im kind of confused

anyway, thanks anthony!

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:45 am

Glasswars is running an ASP kit.

His turbo is the s256NET. We actually experimented with his kit a little bit, and gave him the .55 A/R stainless steel exhaust housing. It was a bit of a pain and more complicated than it needed to be for fabrication, so we switched back to the .70 A/R housing for most stuff. But the .55 spools a little quicker.

As far as turbo size vs. engine damage, I have to disagree with most of the theories here.

It's not torque, hp, or psi that causes issues on a stock motor. It's peak cylinder pressure. Larger cams, proper tuning, and lower psi are the ways to make that happen.

Let's look at a big turbo vs. a small turbo at 10psi. First, the small turbo will spool much faster. We know this. The flame front in the cylinder will travel at the same speed whether the crank is turning at 2000 RPM or 6000 RPM. Think of it like catching a baseball. If you bring your hand back while you catch it, it's nice and comfy. If you just palm it, the impact can make your hand hurt. Well, pistons don't heal.

The other thing to take into account is the efficiency of a large turbo will keep the pressure in the exhaust manifold down. For the tiny difference in scavenging with a long tube header, a turbine reaching it's limits has the complete opposite effect. It straight up robs power. That's one of the main factors in a larger turbo making much more power if you compared the 2 at the same RPM and psi.

So you get a torquey car with a small turbo and can still run 10psi safely. But let's face it. We don't drag race off idle. The gearing advantage is so significant that it would be stupid. So why make your peak power in the RPM range you don't even use when trying to wring the power out of the motor?

That's why we use bigger turbos even if we aren't taking full advantage of the power potential of them. It makes the car faster, it makes the car easier to drive, and it's easier on the motor. It even promotes better gas mileage. The only downside is a few hundred dollars. In the scheme of things, that's not much.

boostalot717 · Post by **boostalot717** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:06 pm

esteinmaier wrote:Glasswars is running an ASP kit.

It's not torque, hp, or psi that causes issues on a stock motor. It's peak cylinder pressure. Larger cams, proper tuning, and lower psi are the ways to make that happen.

^^^^ The real truth not ricer talk here.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:10 pm

can anybody post links to turbos that would be good with what im looking to do?
Im not exactly sure where the best places and best prices are on turbos. As i said before, im new to boost

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:30 pm

I have the best prices on mid to high level turbos. Cheap turbos I typically don't recommend, which is why I don't carry them. aspturbo.com is where I have them. I carry a lot more that I don't advertise though.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:40 am

esteinmaier wrote:I have the best prices on mid to high level turbos. Cheap turbos I typically don't recommend, which is why I don't carry them. aspturbo.com is where I have them. I carry a lot more that I don't advertise though.

im probably going to go with the turbo you suggested. Only problem is, i need to pass emmissions

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:02 pm

talk to Nitehawk about that. he has an elaborate scheme to pass emissions in PA

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:48 pm

Hudson_Neon wrote:talk to Nitehawk about that. he has an elaborate scheme to pass emissions in PA

i talk to matt on a daily basis. ill have to ask him later today

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:17 pm

anybody know if the godspeed intercooler for the srt4 will fit under the sxt bumper?

By the looks of gunmetalneon's fmic it will, but i wanted to confirm it before i bought it.

-Cody

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:28 pm

Yes, it does, although you may need to trim out some of the hidden plastic to make it fit.

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:34 pm

esteinmaier wrote:Yes, it does, although you may need to trim out some of the hidden plastic to make it fit.

hidden plastic? like part of the grill or what?

also, do you sell a full turbo kit so i dont have to piece one together, or am i better off piecing it?