How-To: Forever Fix RICER FLASH!
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yeah i forgot to mention that.........lights off turn signal worked fine, but once the lights were on the turn signal would be erratic at best...
stupid flasher relays
stupid flasher relays
Matt Cresto
Fueled By Matt
Fueling Your Passion
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Fueling Your Passion
Fuel systems turbo kits and components, tuning, performance parts. Contact us for all of your performance needs.
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EP27 LED flasher modification turn signal
Greets,
First - Calling this the "ricer flash" however clever and funny, prevented me from easily finding this page and images. Here are some tags for future search: LED relay EP27 relay flasher blinker turn signal mod modification
This is good info and it deserves to be found!
Second - I tried modifying the stock flasher circuit and discovered the issue with the headlamps ON before finding this thread. I then did some other experiments that ultimately destroyed my OEM flasher relay, but I learned something along the way...
After breaking apart my OEM relay I measured the voltage on all the pins as the blinkers come on and the hazards, with and without headlights. As a lot of people suggest you can use an EP27 relay (found at autozone) I picked one of these up and tried it. Of course I got the loud buzzing with my hazards on, and blew the fuse.
In testing I noticed that the center relay pin (marked H on the fig) drops to ground when you turn on the hazard switch. I hooked it up with temp clips and found that if pin H of the EP27 relay is not connected - the hazards will work with the ignition switch to ON. So - if you happen to break your stock flasher and you need one in a pinch. Break off the center pin (marked H) on your EP27 and you will have some ability to use hazards (and at least you won't accidentally blow the fuse!)
The EP27 still acts funky with all 4 blinkers as LED's - so it's not the final solution. I was able to get my rear tail lights over to LED and leave the front amber turn bulbs in - to keep the flasher / blinker working - but still have some LED's without those stupid resistor packs, and without a fast "ricer" flash.
Your Mileage May Vary.
- Kris
First - Calling this the "ricer flash" however clever and funny, prevented me from easily finding this page and images. Here are some tags for future search: LED relay EP27 relay flasher blinker turn signal mod modification
This is good info and it deserves to be found!
Second - I tried modifying the stock flasher circuit and discovered the issue with the headlamps ON before finding this thread. I then did some other experiments that ultimately destroyed my OEM flasher relay, but I learned something along the way...
After breaking apart my OEM relay I measured the voltage on all the pins as the blinkers come on and the hazards, with and without headlights. As a lot of people suggest you can use an EP27 relay (found at autozone) I picked one of these up and tried it. Of course I got the loud buzzing with my hazards on, and blew the fuse.
In testing I noticed that the center relay pin (marked H on the fig) drops to ground when you turn on the hazard switch. I hooked it up with temp clips and found that if pin H of the EP27 relay is not connected - the hazards will work with the ignition switch to ON. So - if you happen to break your stock flasher and you need one in a pinch. Break off the center pin (marked H) on your EP27 and you will have some ability to use hazards (and at least you won't accidentally blow the fuse!)
The EP27 still acts funky with all 4 blinkers as LED's - so it's not the final solution. I was able to get my rear tail lights over to LED and leave the front amber turn bulbs in - to keep the flasher / blinker working - but still have some LED's without those stupid resistor packs, and without a fast "ricer" flash.
Your Mileage May Vary.
- Kris
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Bah, it has been coined "Ricer Flash" for a good while. But yeah, with the search, if you don't have the right key word(s) it doesn't always work so well.
So it won't run the hazards with the key off? Sucks if you have to leave the car by the side of the road.
I am kind of wondering if John's issue is some weird ground problem with all the LED's. If the headlights being on somehow removes the ground path from the blinker circuit, it will not work. Just throwing it out there, as it is a slim possibility.
So it won't run the hazards with the key off? Sucks if you have to leave the car by the side of the road.
I am kind of wondering if John's issue is some weird ground problem with all the LED's. If the headlights being on somehow removes the ground path from the blinker circuit, it will not work. Just throwing it out there, as it is a slim possibility.
Bill
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap
2021 Forester
2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCMOlha Koba, a psychologist in Kyiv, said that “anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate.” But it is important to channel it into something useful, she said, such as making incendiary bombs out of empty bottles.
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap
2021 Forester
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Well in theory yes when you replace EVERY bulb with an LED you could be eliminating a constant ground.
LED's are not the same as a ground if they are off(not enough voltage to flow current) where a bulb is just a coil of wire and will make the circuit complete(in this case grounded) instead of open.
If that were the case though I'd suspect they wouldn't work lights on or off. Mainly because they turn on and just don't blink if I understand the issue correctly.
I think it's a problem with the relay based on the info I've read in this thread. Possibly you could create and artificial load to make the relay work but most people don't want the heat from the resistive circuit.
It could also be possible to modify the relay to switch through resistor changes or changing the way it is wired internally. Really would love a schematic of that relay or even to open one up and follow all the traces. Maybe I can find time this weekend to look it all over.
LED's are not the same as a ground if they are off(not enough voltage to flow current) where a bulb is just a coil of wire and will make the circuit complete(in this case grounded) instead of open.
If that were the case though I'd suspect they wouldn't work lights on or off. Mainly because they turn on and just don't blink if I understand the issue correctly.
I think it's a problem with the relay based on the info I've read in this thread. Possibly you could create and artificial load to make the relay work but most people don't want the heat from the resistive circuit.
It could also be possible to modify the relay to switch through resistor changes or changing the way it is wired internally. Really would love a schematic of that relay or even to open one up and follow all the traces. Maybe I can find time this weekend to look it all over.
Good luck! A final solution to this would be awesome.lilschmied wrote:It could also be possible to modify the relay to switch through resistor changes or changing the way it is wired internally. Really would love a schematic of that relay or even to open one up and follow all the traces. Maybe I can find time this weekend to look it all over.
Here's a pic from my "testing".
http://rallynotes.com/gallery/2011-rall ... 23.JPG.php
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- 2GN Member
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 7:19 pm
- Location: Cranberry, Pa
Stock - with 1 or or more LED's you will get the fast blinker.lilschmied wrote:One more question does the ricer-flash still occur with a stock relay and an all LED setup?
Stock - with all LED's you get no blinker.
Stock relay modified - with 2 LED's you get normal operation.
Stock relay modified - with ALL LED's you get lights on problem.
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Update
I plugged in a non modded OEM flasher. The turn signals flash at normal speed without the flasher modded. Cool. The hazzards flash at a very fast rate. Poop. The front turn signals work all the time. Cool. The rears will only work with the lights off. Poop. The dash indicators work no matter what. Cool.
I plugged in a non modded OEM flasher. The turn signals flash at normal speed without the flasher modded. Cool. The hazzards flash at a very fast rate. Poop. The front turn signals work all the time. Cool. The rears will only work with the lights off. Poop. The dash indicators work no matter what. Cool.
lilschmied wrote:One more question does the ricer-flash still occur with a stock relay and an all LED setup?
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...
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You might have to figure out a way to use the solid state flasher unit they sell for street rods. Not sure exactly how tho. They are for the old school two/three prong type, just a solid state on/off/on timer.
Something like these...
http://www.streetrodhq.com/search.lasso ... ic+Flasher
Something like these...
http://www.streetrodhq.com/search.lasso ... ic+Flasher
Bill
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap
2021 Forester
2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCMOlha Koba, a psychologist in Kyiv, said that “anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate.” But it is important to channel it into something useful, she said, such as making incendiary bombs out of empty bottles.
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap
2021 Forester
Now that I have an all LED set-up, the turn signals (when they work) flash at the normal rate without the mod. The hazards look like cop strobes. OK, not that bad, but close.lilschmied wrote:One more question does the ricer-flash still occur with a stock relay and an all LED setup?
A new wrinkle...my left dash indicator (it's LED as well) stopped working today (it's done this before) and while it doesn't work, my front turn signals won't work with the lights on Lights off it still works even though the dash indicator doesn't.
I have been giving that some serious thought.occasional demons wrote:You might have to figure out a way to use the solid state flasher unit they sell for street rods. Not sure exactly how tho. They are for the old school two/three prong type, just a solid state on/off/on timer.
Something like these...
http://www.streetrodhq.com/search.lasso ... ic+Flasher
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...
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Without having a setup in front of me it's hard to say anything more on the subject. I suspect the issue is the lack of resistance in the circuit. You could try a much larger capacitor in the circuit but I suspect it's more an issue with lack of discharging.
The other possibility I suspect is the leds not being very well thought out and that a better engineered replacement rather than a cheap fast and dirty one would eliminate the issue. Brand names from those that had no issue vs those that did could be helpful.
The other possibility I suspect is the leds not being very well thought out and that a better engineered replacement rather than a cheap fast and dirty one would eliminate the issue. Brand names from those that had no issue vs those that did could be helpful.
I can assure you, I don't have any cheap LEDs in my system. Everything came from Autoillumination. The bulbs in my front turn signals and brake lamps were $26 each. Even my single LEDs in my marker lamps were $8.00 each.
I don't want to think about how much I've spent in LED lighting.
I don't want to think about how much I've spent in LED lighting.
If I could just figure out how to meld the Outback and the Neon into one car...
- 00Neon RCR
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I have seen somewhere.. I will have to find the link again. That has the blinker modules for when you put in aftermarket leds.
Edit... Found the link. These might work better.
http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm
Edit... Found the link. These might work better.
http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm
For sure, i know i wasn't trying to bring the thread back from the dead, but it's something that it seems like no one really had a for sure fix on.Danteneon wrote:I still have this issue. I bought some load resisters from superbrightleds to install on the marker wiring. We'll see what that does.
Thanks for the link. Don't you think these would work similar the ones auto zone sell that would make you blow the fuse underneath the hood?C1DoG wrote:I have seen somewhere.. I will have to find the link again. That has the blinker modules for when you put in aftermarket leds.
Edit... Found the link. These might work better.
http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm