Looking for some advice about performance mods

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:24 pm

I have a 2004 R/T I have had since new. I haven't really done anything to it yet. So I want to do some upgrade to it to help on performance. This my daily driver so I don't want to get to wild with it. I'm coming up an a timing belt change and was thinking about changing the cam while I was at it but after reading what I could find on the different cams sounds like it wouldn't make a lot of difference unless I drove around over 3500rpm. Most of the time it's 3000 or less, and from what I read gas mileage takes a hit without much gain driving to work an back. Most of the engine upgrades for performance from what I have read on here or more for the non-Magnum engine.
So I have been thinking about a turbo for awhile, I talked to the guys at Haun racing and there kit will work but the intake and exhaust would will need to be changed plus the $4500 price is a big chunk. Everything I read on here about turbos, sounds like the kit from ASP is the way to go but I haven't been able to find out if Eric is still making them or not. I still need to get through emissions so I need an easy way to go back or get through emissions the way it is.
Everything is stock. I don't want to make big power, just enough to have some fun driving to and from work. You know pull off from a light with someone that thinks they are fast and leave them WAY behind the Neon. Thanks for any help and guidance you guys can give. Bill

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:25 pm

profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=904

ask him for yourself. PM him. he's more than willing to put something together for you. the only speed bump you will have is passing emissions

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:30 pm

Hudson_Neon wrote:profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=904

ask him for yourself. PM him. he's more than willing to put something together for you. the only speed bump you will have is passing emissions

Thanks Hudson_Neon I did sent him a PM but I'm not sure if you ever got it or not. It's showing in my outbox

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:18 pm

He may still have seen it. It sends you an email also. But be patient. I'm sure he will give you a reply. Most of the vendors do this stuff on the side, in addition to raising families.

The next step up as far as cam goes, would be the '01 Magnum cam, but how much of a gain you would really notice over the '02 - '04 I'm not sure. I doubt it would have a huge affect on fuel economy.

The part that had the most impact with mine was swapping to the Magnum head. I had the '02+ Magnum cam in the regular, mildly ported head, and it made better power, but it was still comparatively easy on fuel.
Yes, I can still get nearly the same mileage with the R/T casting, but it takes much more effort. It is also mildly ported. But if the power is used, the fuel gauge shows it much more.

Boosting will net you more power, but the fuel penalty will also be greater. If you drive conservatively, and somehow resist the urge to feed the beast, you could prolly improve your fuel consumption slightly over the same N/A cruising speeds. Finding a good balance will keep the fuel cost down a bit, and the smile on your face.

The added plus to boosting is you don't need a huge cam to make power, so when you are out of boost, you retain the better low(er) rpm benefits.

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:46 pm

occasional demons wrote:He may still have seen it. It sends you an email also. But be patient. I'm sure he will give you a reply. Most of the vendors do this stuff on the side, in addition to raising families.

The next step up as far as cam goes, would be the '01 Magnum cam, but how much of a gain you would really notice over the '02 - '04 I'm not sure. I doubt it would have a huge affect on fuel economy.

The part that had the most impact with mine was swapping to the Magnum head. I had the '02+ Magnum cam in the regular, mildly ported head, and it made better power, but it was still comparatively easy on fuel.
Yes, I can still get nearly the same mileage with the R/T casting, but it takes much more effort. It is also mildly ported. But if the power is used, the fuel gauge shows it much more.

Boosting will net you more power, but the fuel penalty will also be greater. If you drive conservatively, and somehow resist the urge to feed the beast, you could prolly improve your fuel consumption slightly over the same N/A cruising speeds. Finding a good balance will keep the fuel cost down a bit, and the smile on your face.

The added plus to boosting is you don't need a huge cam to make power, so when you are out of boost, you retain the better low(er) rpm benefits.

Yes he did get back to me today. I have only sent a couple of PM on here and it's a little different than the other forum I was on. I already have a magnum engine so I don't know if the '01 cam is different than the '04. I was talking about a bigger Crane or a Comp. From what I had read one bigger than the one that's in it now you mostly don't feel it until the higher rpm range over 3500 so that would mean for the most part I wouldn't feel the extra power but I've read that other people were saying they had a 10%-20% reduction in mpg. That wouldn't be killer if you felt the extra power all the time. Right now running to and from work, it's probably 75% city 25% hwy I average 28mpg, pure hwy I can get 34mpg. I think that's not too bad. I would hate to drop into the low twenty's and not feel much difference in power. Thanks Bill

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:00 pm

The Comp 400 would get you decent all around power. It was primarily designed as an upgrade to the Magnum cam. There are a few of members here that run the 400 with an ATX, and are happy with it. With the R/T gearing, you have less to worry about as far as low rpm performance, compared to an ATX.

The 3.94 gears will be a slight disadvantage for the boost route tho.

The '01 cam has more lift than the '02 - '04 cam. The Crane 12, or w/e number they go by now, is very close to the '01 cam.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:04 pm

Hey dude, I'm in Pasadena, you might have seen my cars around. If you ever need a hand with some stuff shoot me a PM.

Honestly I think the comp 400 cam was built for the 2gn R/T motors. It works well in the RPM range that the mag motors are stuck with, and makes good power. You could always go with a long tube header to pick up some power, and Greg over at Mandrel Bending Solutions on Mountain Rd does awesome exhaust work. I've had him do the exhaust on my 98 neon, my 95, my SRT and my truck.

There's a guy on here, nitehawk, who figured out how to get the SRT-4 ECU to work on the neon, at which point you can use a DSP programmer to modify the computer to run the 2.0 motor. With this you can raise the rev limiter, alter the fuel and spark maps, etc. He's still working on it currently, but it's a future option.

Here's two pics of my cars.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/I ... 0_1767.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5065/5818 ... 4c67_b.jpg

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:54 am

INVUJerry wrote:Hey dude, I'm in Pasadena, you might have seen my cars around. If you ever need a hand with some stuff shoot me a PM.

Honestly I think the comp 400 cam was built for the 2gn R/T motors. It works well in the RPM range that the mag motors are stuck with, and makes good power. You could always go with a long tube header to pick up some power, and Greg over at Mandrel Bending Solutions on Mountain Rd does awesome exhaust work. I've had him do the exhaust on my 98 neon, my 95, my SRT and my truck.

There's a guy on here, nitehawk, who figured out how to get the SRT-4 ECU to work on the neon, at which point you can use a DSP programmer to modify the computer to run the 2.0 motor. With this you can raise the rev limiter, alter the fuel and spark maps, etc. He's still working on it currently, but it's a future option.

Here's two pics of my cars.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/I ... 0_1767.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5065/5818 ... 4c67_b.jpg

We're almost neighbors, I'm right up by Glen Burnie High School. I have seen the green one around but I haven't seen your black one. I might take you up on helping out.
Now from what I read(I don't know if it's correct or not) the guys were saying that they didn't see much power improvement with the Comp400 until they were over 3500rpm so it's what I was going by. I was looking at headers but I'm thinking about adding a turbo, but if not I'll check into it. Thanks for the tip about exhaust guy I'm always looking for someone that's good and can never find one that you can count on to do it right.
I was reading some posts about the SRT-4 ECU with the 2.0l, and was thinking there are some really smart people on this forum and a lot of knowledge with Neons.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:29 am

I used to live in glen Burnie park, right off Crain hwy. I moved to the Magothy Beach area now, I love it back here. My stepdss utter has some friends that live by GBHS so I'm back there a bit. I used to daily drive the green one but I've since put a high compression motor in it so I have to put some race gas in it every tank. Makes it a little expensive.

The problem with most of the mods for these cars is that you won't feel power until after 3500, and you might not feel a big difference in part throttle. My built motor with the huge cam doesn't wake up until 5000 rpms, and it's sort of a pain to drive around.

Do you have any mods on your car yet?

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:46 pm

INVUJerry wrote:I used to live in glen Burnie park, right off Crain hwy. I moved to the Magothy Beach area now, I love it back here. My stepdss utter has some friends that live by GBHS so I'm back there a bit. I used to daily drive the green one but I've since put a high compression motor in it so I have to put some race gas in it every tank. Makes it a little expensive.

The problem with most of the mods for these cars is that you won't feel power until after 3500, and you might not feel a big difference in part throttle. My built motor with the huge cam doesn't wake up until 5000 rpms, and it's sort of a pain to drive around.

Do you have any mods on your car yet?

No the only thing I've done was add a k&n filter and left off the air box lid. It sounds good when you step into but, I don't know if it really made a difference in power. It sounds like a 4 barrel kicking in when the butterfly's open. To me gaining power in the top of the rpm range isn't really worth it. If I was racing it I could see it but it's never been to the track and probably never will be. I would rather add power to the low end but I don't know if that's possible without a big budget.
Yeah It would be a little expansive running race gas all the time. How much compression are you running in your green one?
If you see a '04 black R/T running around Glen Burnie then that's probably me. I think it was about the last R/T left in the Baltimore in '04. I haven't seen to many R/T that year in town mostly the SE or SXT.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:17 pm

Honestly if you're looking for power up to 3500 rpms you might be out of luck. As much as I like Erick and ASP spending $4k on a turbo kit wouldn't be worth the time and effort for you. A turbo won't spool until 3k at WOT. The only thing I could think of doing would be a 2.4 swap to the car, but I'm not sure it'd be too much faster than the car as it sits, just a little different in the delivery of the power.

Leaving the lid off the box like you did is a pretty common thing to do. The only issue is that it's picking up hot air from the engine bay, and not cold air from the fender. You could put the lid back on, and remove the resonator from the fender, and leave the elbow on so it'll get some colder air. Only problem with that is it won't sound as cool lol.

The green car has a 12.5:1 motor in it currently with a huge cam lol. It sounds pretty rediculous at idle with all the overlap it has. The black car is actually an 04 Srt-4 with the 02 bumper and Chrysler grille. It's fun to drive with the 2.4 and the turbo, has a lot of torque down low, but the party is over by 5500. It was good for a 13.9 in the 1/4 before I did the 3" exhaust and the boost controller.

Just noticed your signature, do you ever take the old cars to the car show at marley station? I'd love to check them out sometime.

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:11 pm

INVUJerry wrote:Honestly if you're looking for power up to 3500 rpms you might be out of luck. As much as I like Erick and ASP spending $4k on a turbo kit wouldn't be worth the time and effort for you. A turbo won't spool until 3k at WOT. The only thing I could think of doing would be a 2.4 swap to the car, but I'm not sure it'd be too much faster than the car as it sits, just a little different in the delivery of the power.

Leaving the lid off the box like you did is a pretty common thing to do. The only issue is that it's picking up hot air from the engine bay, and not cold air from the fender. You could put the lid back on, and remove the resonator from the fender, and leave the elbow on so it'll get some colder air. Only problem with that is it won't sound as cool lol.

The green car has a 12.5:1 motor in it currently with a huge cam lol. It sounds pretty rediculous at idle with all the overlap it has. The black car is actually an 04 Srt-4 with the 02 bumper and Chrysler grille. It's fun to drive with the 2.4 and the turbo, has a lot of torque down low, but the party is over by 5500. It was good for a 13.9 in the 1/4 before I did the 3" exhaust and the boost controller.

Just noticed your signature, do you ever take the old cars to the car show at marley station? I'd love to check them out sometime.

I'm not sure if I'll wind up doing anything to it, I was just thinking I drive the Neon every day and wind up putting all the money into my '40 pickup that I never drive! So I just thought I would get some ideas of what I might be able to do to have some daily fun. I was thinking about posting on here to see if there might be some guys around town with a turbo on there car and see if they would want to meet up so I could check out their car to get some kind of idea what the install would be like and how the car performed. I know some people that own junk yards around here and could get them to keep an eye out for a good deal on a wrecked SRT-4 but that sounds like a lot more work and money than the turbo would be, or maybe I just keep an eye on the guy that doing the SRT-4 ECU and try that when it's finished.
You know I would never thought your black car is an SRT-4 good disguise! Man 13.9 is quite quick, now that would be a fun drive to work, and even funner on the way home on the back roads through Davidsonville.
We use to go to Marley, we sat with the Maryland Mopars guys over in the corner by the movie sign. We haven't gone to any shows for a couple of years just other stuff going on. I don't think I have put 100 miles on the old truck the last 2 years and not to many more than that on the Plymouth.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:03 pm

It is fun to drive to work, and the fact that I can be in 5th gear on the highway at 65 and not have to go wide open and downshift to get the car moving is nice. I can pretty much shift whenever I want to and it'll be fine with it lol. With the exhaust it woke up a good bit, but the boost controller made it better. Just the move from 12-13 to 16 pounds was great. 1st gear from a roll just spins, if I catch 2nd it'll spin most of 2nd gear. And the brakes are great on the car, when I lay into them it feels like I'm dropping an anchor out the back of the car. The only thing is I'm getting tired of the payment, and the car insurance. I currently have it listed for sale but I haven't found anybody interested.

If you ever get the chance though I'd love to check out your older cars, I love old mopars. I used to have a 74 Dart, but it was a rust bucket, I didn't own it for long but it was very fun to drive.

goldramgb · Post by **goldramgb** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:39 am

INVUJerry wrote:It is fun to drive to work, and the fact that I can be in 5th gear on the highway at 65 and not have to go wide open and downshift to get the car moving is nice. I can pretty much shift whenever I want to and it'll be fine with it lol. With the exhaust it woke up a good bit, but the boost controller made it better. Just the move from 12-13 to 16 pounds was great. 1st gear from a roll just spins, if I catch 2nd it'll spin most of 2nd gear. And the brakes are great on the car, when I lay into them it feels like I'm dropping an anchor out the back of the car. The only thing is I'm getting tired of the payment, and the car insurance. I currently have it listed for sale but I haven't found anybody interested.

If you ever get the chance though I'd love to check out your older cars, I love old mopars. I used to have a 74 Dart, but it was a rust bucket, I didn't own it for long but it was very fun to drive.

That does sound like fun, but yeah not so much when it's time to make the car payment or insurance. I know the insurance on my Neon is kind of crazy I would hate to ask about a SRT-4. I ask our old insurance agent about the price for a new Charger he said I could get the most expensive Charger SRT8 and it would cost less than the Neon, That's just crazy!
Sure if you want to meet up some time that would be great. Just shoot me a PM and I can dig out one of them. The Plymouth is at the house and the old truck is in storage, I got tired of it setting out in the rain and snow so I found it a place to be inside. We are trying to sell the Plymouth but like you we haven't found anybody that wanted it for a descent price, I guess mostly because it's a 4 door. Probably 90% original and in great shape for almost a 50 year old car. Still has the Slant 6 in it and it runs great. I told my wife that if we didn't sell it by spring I would pull the engine and put a Hemi in it because it must not matter that is original to anybody. I don't know if I will that's going to be atleast $8000-$10000 for it to be right and dependable. We used it for a daily driver for the first couple of years we had it, but like the old truck is just sits in the driveway now and almost never gets driven.