fastest dd 2.0?

Have a question about how to make horsepower going the all motor route, here's where to ask it.
User avatar
NGCnoproblem
2GN Member
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 am
Location: Buckley, WA

fastest dd 2.0?

Post by NGCnoproblem » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:42 pm

Hey just was wondering wat the fastest n/a 2.0 neon ppl on here have seen. I'm more curious about daily drivable ones. Just interested to see wat ppl have done
Sorry for Party Rockin
Image

User avatar
INVUJerry
2GN Veteran
Posts: 6535
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
Contact:

Post by INVUJerry » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:00 pm

I daily drove my magnum powered 98 with a big crane cam for a while. It went 14.6's all motor. With more compression it'd have been faster.

I drove my NYG with the 12.5:1 with a crane 005 cam on the street for a while. It wasn't that bad but it took a little getting used to. It also liked race gas so it was a little expensive. I never got a solid pass out of it but it would have went 13's if it wasn't fucked up.
Image
So many neons so little time.

User avatar
NGCnoproblem
2GN Member
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 am
Location: Buckley, WA

Post by NGCnoproblem » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:22 am

So is raising the compression one of the big things that make the car perform better n/a?
Sorry for Party Rockin
Image

ThatKevin
2GN Member
Posts: 1176
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:48 pm
Location: Brampton, ON

Post by ThatKevin » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:04 am

NGCnoproblem wrote:So is raising the compression one of the big things that make the car perform better n/a?
YES!
Image
'02 Chrysler Neon RT - SOHC 50trim+Crane 007 ---DEAD---
'05 Dodge Neon SRT4 - DSP & bolt ons ---SOLD---
'08 Dodge Caliber SRT4 - MS1Kv3
Progress Log

racer12306
Junior Admin
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by racer12306 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:22 am

NGCnoproblem wrote:So is raising the compression one of the big things that make the car perform better n/a?
That's Performance 101.

Raising the compression ratio will always increase the power and responsivness of the engine. How much is a matter of the type of fuel you are interested in running, how tight of a tuning window you are comfortable with and if you are adding boost into the mix.

Higher compression and boost go together like peas in a pod, as long as you can keep it from detonating itself to little bits.
-Frank
Member of Spork Racing
Forum issues: racer12306@2gn.org
Forum Behavior
Support your favorite forum, DONATE!

NyNeon0813
2GN Member
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:53 am
Location: ny

Post by NyNeon0813 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:41 am

I always thought lower compression was better for turbo setups?

And how high compression can u go with 93 octane safely and without issues
Image

'01 PEON - '01 R/T head swap.. Bolt ons & ksports

***tUrBo CoMiNg SoOn***

__________
Justin*

racer12306
Junior Admin
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by racer12306 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:49 am

In a normal street situation you are correct, because you have to accomodate the fuel that is available to you.

However, if you can run good stuff (115+ octane or methanol) higher compression is better, to a point of course. The biggest thing is keeping it all in one piece. If the engine components and fuel can handle the actual cylinder pressure the higher compression ratio the better. You also dramically shrink your tuning window so a higher compression boosted engine is not for the n00b.


It seems 10.5:1 or so is the safe higher compression to run on pump gas, but with careful tuning 12:1 should be doable. There are a number of OEM engines that are flirting with 13-14:1 and running on 87.
-Frank
Member of Spork Racing
Forum issues: racer12306@2gn.org
Forum Behavior
Support your favorite forum, DONATE!

User avatar
RobsProjectSOHC
2012 Gold Contributor
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:36 am
Location: NY

Post by RobsProjectSOHC » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:07 am

Anything other than raising compression or is that pretty much the key answer after head work and basic bolt ons go?
Project 003. Just building a Daily Driver with some upgrades.
For Sale Thread | CarDomain | FeedBack
Official "I'm gonna drive my Neon until it dies Club" Member #119

racer12306
Junior Admin
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by racer12306 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:36 am

To really take full advantage of headwork you will want to bump up the compression ratio.
-Frank
Member of Spork Racing
Forum issues: racer12306@2gn.org
Forum Behavior
Support your favorite forum, DONATE!

User avatar
NGCnoproblem
2GN Member
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 am
Location: Buckley, WA

Post by NGCnoproblem » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:43 am

Hmmm interesting to. Higher octane burns at higher temps right? Which is y u need to run higher octane for higher compression turbo setups
Sorry for Party Rockin
Image

racer12306
Junior Admin
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by racer12306 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:29 pm

Higher octane resists detonation (ie spontaneous like combustion), that is why you need it for high cylinder pressure situations, be it high compression n/a engines or high boost engines.
-Frank
Member of Spork Racing
Forum issues: racer12306@2gn.org
Forum Behavior
Support your favorite forum, DONATE!

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19495
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:16 pm

Higher octane burns slower, IDK about hotter. You may have higher overall temps, due to the duration of the burn being a little longer giving things a tad more heat soak.


But that slower burn time gives you more degrees of crank rotation to play with.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
Seriously people, this is 2019 not 1920.
2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
NGCnoproblem
2GN Member
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 am
Location: Buckley, WA

Post by NGCnoproblem » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 pm

So much to learn! Lol
Sorry for Party Rockin
Image

ZeroChad
2009 Gold Contributor
Posts: 3165
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Austin, Tx
Contact:

Post by ZeroChad » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:29 pm

Read through my old log. Pretty sure I had the fastest NA DD.
Old Neon Log | Feedback

2000 - Corvette Coupe
2002 - Neon SE Fully Built (scrapped)

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19495
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:51 pm

Fastest (top speed), or quickest (elapsed time in a set distance), that is the question. Which one is it? :lol:

Yes, I am an ass. :D
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
Seriously people, this is 2019 not 1920.
2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

Hudson_Neon
2GN Member
Posts: 3371
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by Hudson_Neon » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:16 am

guy, Ted, on MNneons...
UptownSport wrote:old quickest was 13.888, Now:
Bone yard trans (OBX sitting on bro's bench for no particular reason)
Boneyard head (angle milled Head sitting in my drawer for no particular reason)
E-85
less weigh 1960lbs w/o
MS
With muffler

Image

My bro got 14.278 with cheaters, heavier than me and .3 slower 50'- One broke axle

Weird, so something locked up in trans- pulled right and wouldn't turn.
I literately couldn't turn onto pit road.
When backing, it popped, or if I tried to turn even the slightest.
It freed up and made it back to Mpls

User avatar
NGCnoproblem
2GN Member
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:32 am
Location: Buckley, WA

Post by NGCnoproblem » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:02 am

Oh that's impressive :). Does he have a project log?
Sorry for Party Rockin
Image

racer12306
Junior Admin
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by racer12306 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:56 am

He's from the org. It's also a 1GN.
-Frank
Member of Spork Racing
Forum issues: racer12306@2gn.org
Forum Behavior
Support your favorite forum, DONATE!

Hudson_Neon
2GN Member
Posts: 3371
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by Hudson_Neon » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:50 am

you'd have to search the big org. most of his mods are wight reduction things. him and his brother are obsessed with it. his brother is making a geo metro alternator work on his car simply because it weighs 5 lbs less

racer12306
Junior Admin
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:53 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by racer12306 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:13 am

It is certainly an interesting project and something I would like to do.

You can't argue with the price they have into it.
-Frank
Member of Spork Racing
Forum issues: racer12306@2gn.org
Forum Behavior
Support your favorite forum, DONATE!

ragek23
2GN Member
Posts: 2476
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:22 am
Location: Torrington, CT

Post by ragek23 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:30 am

wow, sounds like they should just invest in carbon fiber lol.

2002 Neon SXT Sold
2006 EVO MR Weekend Warrior
2003 SRT 4 DD
-Kevin

Image

Hudson_Neon
2GN Member
Posts: 3371
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by Hudson_Neon » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:48 am

Nah, I mean look... His car is already under 2,000 lbs. He has all sorts of delete things, no fan, no sound material, even left a bunch of hardware off that's "not needed"

User avatar
UriahRR
2GN Member
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 6:21 pm
Location: East PA

Post by UriahRR » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:25 pm

So how do we go about getting this higher compression cheaply? Is there a way, or just the basic shaving the gasket, high comp pistons, etc?
Image

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19495
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:33 pm

Well, "cheaply" would be milling the head, but then you need to get an inexpensive adjustable cam gear(s) to bring the cam timing back in line. Or some decent used pistons, but then there are the related costs of doing that properly.


Really no cheap method, unless you take your chances with backyard rebuilds.

Or you could just super glue a bunch of pennies to each piston. :P
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
Seriously people, this is 2019 not 1920.
2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
JeffM
2GN Member
Posts: 3588
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Vermont

Post by JeffM » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:36 pm

'Cheap' should not be your mind-set when going into a high-comp build. Or rather any build for that matter.


Fast, Cheap, Reliable. Pick two.
Image

User avatar
INVUJerry
2GN Veteran
Posts: 6535
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
Contact:

Post by INVUJerry » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:40 pm

occasional demons wrote:Well, "cheaply" would be milling the head, but then you need to get an inexpensive adjustable cam gear(s) to bring the cam timing back in line. Or some decent used pistons, but then there are the related costs of doing that properly.


Really no cheap method, unless you take your chances with backyard rebuilds.

Or you could just super glue a bunch of pennies to each piston. :P
That's what I did on my 98, wish I had milled the head .040" instead of .030". Or swapping in a DOHC block raises the compression a good bit.

Still want to do a DOHC block with a mag head milled .030" with a big crame cam.
Image
So many neons so little time.

User avatar
UriahRR
2GN Member
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 6:21 pm
Location: East PA

Post by UriahRR » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:49 pm

"Cheaply" is in my mind when I have an old Neon. I'm done spending gobs of money on this car, just looking for a few easy ways of keeping myself occupied.

That DOHC block looked interesting, but at that point I'd just swap the whole engine... with a V6. Aw hell, this old rat is still peppy enough for my daily 90mph commute anyway. :gears:
Image

User avatar
INVUJerry
2GN Veteran
Posts: 6535
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
Contact:

Post by INVUJerry » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:51 pm

V6's will end up taking forever to swap and be slower than a high compression 2.0 or 2.4 dohc swap.
Image
So many neons so little time.

User avatar
JeffM
2GN Member
Posts: 3588
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Vermont

Post by JeffM » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:03 pm

What V6 would you swap that would end up being 'cheap'??? :rofl:
Image

User avatar
UriahRR
2GN Member
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 6:21 pm
Location: East PA

Post by UriahRR » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:13 pm

:roll: wtf cares, something worthwhile. I would never go through the effort of swapping an engine just to have basically the same thing I started with. At the V6 point, it wouldn't be cheap anymore, but it wouldn't be Neon powered either. It would be something more...


ANYWAY, can we please not take this anymore off topic? Back to making N/A 2.0 power...
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Naturally Aspirated”