How-To: 5 speed swap (for 03-05 NGC), ATX to MTX

sidepipe87
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Post by sidepipe87 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:41 am

gilly02le wrote:Just finished my swap today, a few tips i can add to all of this.

If you are going from a 4spd atx, to a 5spd, you Can re-use your stock axles without issue.
Can anyone else confirm this? Im going to 5 speed swap my 05 and everyone seems to think the axle will be way too short. I haven't looked into it at all

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Post by occasional demons » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:19 pm

I don't know how that worked. I could not use the 41te passenger side shaft from my Sundance in my 1gn, but the driver side worked fine. I had to use a 2nd gen passenger side MTX shaft.

The ATX passenger shaft is longer from the seal to the side gear splines than the passenger MTX shaft. It will not seat into an MTX.

I used Sundance/2gn shafts due to using K body knuckles.
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sidepipe87
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Post by sidepipe87 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:25 pm

Found this on the org posted by JeffB#2 in response to this thread "passenger side MTX axle shaft, PLEASE HELP!"
JeffB#2 wrote:
Open up your search:

Gen2 MTX Neon, Gen2 4-speed ATX and all non-turbo PT Cruiser axles will fit and function for your car. Check www.car-part.com, those axles are all over the place in WI. DriveShaftShop.com Stage 3 or higher for Gen1 will also work.

If your car does not have ABS, an ABS axle will still fit and function perfectly.

3-speed ATX axles do NOT interchange but 4-speed ATX axles do.

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Post by occasional demons » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:57 pm

It is entirely possible the neon 41/40te passenger side halfshaft/diff housing is different than the Shadow/Daytona units. All I know is the Shadow one was definitely not going to work, causing me to purchase a 2gn shaft for the right side.

Believe me, I wouldn't have spent the $, in true neon owner fashion, if it would have fit. :lol:
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sidepipe87
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Post by sidepipe87 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:38 pm

lol I don't doubt you!

The funny part is I found an old thread where you quoted the same post as me :lol:
occasional demons wrote:From the other .org...
JeffB#2 wrote:Open up your search:

Gen2 MTX Neon, Gen2 4-speed ATX and all non-turbo PT Cruiser axles will fit and function for your car. Check http://www.car-part.com, those axles are all over the place in WI. DriveShaftShop.com Stage 3 or higher for Gen1 will also work.

If your car does not have ABS, an ABS axle will still fit and function perfectly.

3-speed ATX axles do NOT interchange but 4-speed ATX axles do.
PM me for your 03+ PCM SKIM/VIN flashing needs.

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Post by FAC3L3SS » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:38 pm

Chiming in on the subject at hand!


Ryan and I just did this exact swap this weekend and I'd like to point out a few things (and this isn't knocking OP or anyone contributing, just trying to clarify).

First, for the clutch interlock switch, we had the pedals from my 2001. I'm not sure if there are changes on SRT / 03+ pedals, but this switch had 3 "prongs" and 4 wires. Two were black and ground to the pedal cage, 2 were yellow and went to the switch underneath the clutch pedal. Each has their own prong on the plug, and the middle is a combination of one yellow and one black. We ground the black to the brake switch and the yellow sent to the right pinout on the PCM. After everything was said and done, the car acted like the clutch wasn't being pushed in and it wouldn't turn over. We tried sending ANOTHER ground from the middle prong (which was left empty as the OP says there are only two wires to run) and BOOM she fires up! I don't know if this is a "generation" thing or if we just misinterpreted the instructions, but hopefully this helps in that regard.

As far as the speedo, this part was spot-on. Another straight-forward wire tap to ECU. Just remember to actually plug in the sensor that's capped on the back of the block :lol:

For the reverse lights, studly got that right as well. You could probably follow the pinout to the computer, but we ran it right into the cabin like he suggests. Also, I had the original plug since I pulled it straight from the trans (the ATX one is different). Again, worked perfectly.

The car fired up, gears were there, reverse lights, speedo works, no codes (aside from my wonderful cat code). We had the write-up open on the ipad for the 2 hours of wiring we did and aside from battling some vagueness it was pretty simple, just tedious.

Also, if anyone can help it, I highly advise having a donor car lol. Between having harnesses and plugs from my old car, I had the RKE, SKIM module, ignition, PCM, key and fob all from an '05 donor 5-spd (thanks Jerry!) so once we had the new pinouts in we could fire it right up and drive.


All-in-all, this write-up saved us and made a very (in our book) straight forward swap even easier. I bought an '03 ATX with bad trans, blowing smoke, and a destroyed radiator for $600 5 weeks ago. Today I drove it to the gas station with a 3rd pedal and no clunks :D


IMMEDIATE EDIT//

I can't comment on the passenger axle fitting from the ATX. I obviously kept mine from the manual car from which I pulled everything. Also, I destroyed that axle removing it from the ATX lol
el. oh. el.

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thy_2003sxt4
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Post by thy_2003sxt4 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:40 pm

My input on this topic is as long as the stock automatic axles are fine, you can reuse them with out problems. If you replaced any suspension parts while swapping the transmission, don't forget to get an alignment done afterword's. I also used a motorcycle jack to help with removal/installation of both atx and mtx tranny's. Other than that and keeping some tubes of grease with you, this is a great write up that helped out quiet a bit during my swap this summer!

FAC3L3SS
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Post by FAC3L3SS » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:02 pm

Part of that is true. The reason for changing is not because they're bad, but because one side won't fit for sure. The other was questionable, which someone has commented they DID use.
el. oh. el.

sidepipe87
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Post by sidepipe87 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:34 pm

The problem is only with 02 and lower axles from a 3 speed. 4 speed ATX axles work fine. Both sides
PM me for your 03+ PCM SKIM/VIN flashing needs.

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thy_2003sxt4
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Post by thy_2003sxt4 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:21 pm

I meant to say that it worked with the 4speed axles lol.

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Re: How-To: 5 speed swap (for 03-05 NGC), ATX to MTX

Post by wolfdemon268 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:25 pm

Has anyone done this on a 00 or 01? I have an 01 and would like to do this and would like to know if there will be different problems than the 03-05 ill run into. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

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Re: How-To: 5 speed swap (for 03-05 NGC), ATX to MTX

Post by occasional demons » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:09 pm

Your '01 is a 31th 3 speed ATX. You will need a passenger side axle. But you should measure the width of the hub splines, as in from where the nut/washer seat to the other side where it seats against the knuckle. '00 and '01's were 33mm wide, and '02? up were 39mm wide.

This is important, for getting the correct MTX halfshaft (axle). Note, that '01 R/T's used the wider bearing/hub. (There were no R/T's in '00) ACR's also used the wider hub. But there probably are not many '01/'02 ACR's around.

If you swap to the wider hub MTX knuckles, you will also need to swap the inner tie rods to MTX units. ATX and MTX knuckles, tie rods and steering racks are all specific to each transaxle. The only reason I can think they did this was to limit movement to keep the driver tire from rubbing on the ATX case. This only applies to 2000 to 2005 model years. So keep this in mind if you need to change just one knuckle. Be sure you match what's on the other side.

You can use the ATX PCM in '00 and '01, but you will have a torque converter solenoid fault unless you wire in a resistor, or remove the solenoid and plug it into the connector. You will have to do the clutch interlock and reverse wiring too.

Overall it is a nicer swap if you can source a donor MTX car for all the wiring, PCM and other bits, but with pre 2002, you can use the PCM, with a few mods to the wiring. You will have to rewire the PNS through the clutch switch, if you don't want it to be able to start without pushing the clutch in. I wouldn't recommend just bypassing the clutch part, as it would be too easy to run yourself or someone else over.
Bill
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