Which is more cost effective?

Jimbro727 · Post by **Jimbro727** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:26 pm

I've done a bunch of research over the past few days on doing the SRT-4 swap into my 2003 SXT ATX.. and I keep coming back to this question:

Which is more cost effective? Well, cost effective really isn't a good term.. because there are other factors besides cost, so I'll just say, which do you guys think is better?

To do the swap or to trade in my neon for an 04 SRT-4? I was looking at my car, and I was thinking that after I do the swap, I'm going to want the front fascia.. it just looks sweet.. and I'm going to want/need a different suspension.. and before I know it, it's going to just be an SRT-4 clone..

My car is in good-excellent condition according to KBB, and also according to KBB, the trade-in value is somewhere between 6600 and 7200..

From what I've read, people are doing this swap for about 4000, probably a little less, but let's just say 4000. Then I'd also like stage 2 w/o toys right off the bat, then stage 3 w/toys later when I have the money.

I'm seeing SRT-4s for about 20k, is that accurate? I mean if that's true, then it would cost me 13k to trade up, which I don't think is really worth it. On the other hand, I've seen them go for 11 and 12 in private sales, making it a 4 or 5k difference.

I'm sort of jaded here, and I'm sure all of you swappers have been at this point, so I'm just looking for some direction. What do you guys think? Opinions?

Thanks!

--Jim

neon_ert3 · Post by **neon_ert3** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:04 pm

id say boost ur car for only 2500 w/ the kit comin out if you want to keep it atx or do a swap. insurance is gonna own you with a srt at your age.

but thats just what id do. personally im waitin for the supercharger to come out.

Jimbro727 · Post by **Jimbro727** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:23 pm

neon_ert3 wrote:id say boost ur car for only 2500 w/ the kit comin out if you want to keep it atx or do a swap. insurance is gonna own you with a srt at your age.

but thats just what id do. personally im waitin for the supercharger to come out.

Hey! Thanks for the response!

I'm currently insured with Geico, and I asked them how much it would go up, and they said $60 per 6 months! I was shocked! I was originally avoiding the SRT-4 because of that very reason, but for only $120 more per year, it's not bad at all.

What's the deal with the supercharger? I haven't been paying attention to the aftermarket..

I kind of wanted the manual, I'm not very happy with the ATX.. but there are times that I wonder if I'd be annoyed with the manual. I don't know.. that's another thing I've been thinking about.

What kind of hp would the 2500 kit you were talking about make in my neon?

Post by **Diablo0** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:36 am

You can sometimes find cheap SRT-4s out there for 13-14K, sometimes less if they have more miles. Personally I like my swap, I learned a lot about my car and had a lot of fun in the process. I don't pay the insurance amount of an SRT-4 as the VIN still displays as an R/T giving me R/T rates. If you can find a cheap donor car go for it as I think you're better of. If you can't however or can only find them at stupid prices then I'd just go with the SRT-4 and not bother with the swap. The thing is, it really comes down how much you pay for your donor car and what condition its in if you go that route (which I highly suggest). You've gotta check the engine, see what you'd need to replace like a radiator, fans, computer, wiring... things of that nature. You might be able to find a donor car for $3K but the cost of parts to fix the necessary parts that are damaged so you can sucessfully do your swap might jump that price up a few hundred or thousand if you buy the parts new. If you dont' buy the parts new it could just take you a long time just to track down the used parts that you need either on forums or calling salvage yards. I think right now the best thing to do is to start looking for a donor car, figure how much that'll cost you, if you can even find out now... if the donor car is really hard to find you may just be better off getting a used SRT or if you'd like to just turbo your motor, do like neon_ert3 said and get one of the kits that are out there.

Jimbro727 · Post by **Jimbro727** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:03 am

Diablo0 wrote:You can sometimes find cheap SRT-4s out there for 13-14K, sometimes less if they have more miles. Personally I like my swap, I learned a lot about my car and had a lot of fun in the process. I don't pay the insurance amount of an SRT-4 as the VIN still displays as an R/T giving me R/T rates. If you can find a cheap donor car go for it as I think you're better of. If you can't however or can only find them at stupid prices then I'd just go with the SRT-4 and not bother with the swap. The thing is, it really comes down how much you pay for your donor car and what condition its in if you go that route (which I highly suggest). You've gotta check the engine, see what you'd need to replace like a radiator, fans, computer, wiring... things of that nature. You might be able to find a donor car for $3K but the cost of parts to fix the necessary parts that are damaged so you can successfully do your swap might jump that price up a few hundred or thousand if you buy the parts new. If you dont' buy the parts new it could just take you a long time just to track down the used parts that you need either on forums or calling salvage yards. I think right now the best thing to do is to start looking for a donor car, figure how much that'll cost you, if you can even find out now... if the donor car is really hard to find you may just be better off getting a used SRT or if you'd like to just turbo your motor, do like neon_ert3 said and get one of the kits that are out there.

Thanks for the info! I would like to learn about the car.. although the fast and easy route is so appealing.. I haven't had many opportunities to really work on a newer car, so it would probably be to my benefit as you said. I saw a donor floating around for about $3k i believe.. and it runs and drives (onto the trailer!), but the front end is smashed up, had everything, although it looked like the radiator was smashed.. so I might have to get another one..

The insurance is the other thing.. I'm not too sure if Geico knew what they were talking about, because it seems to me that the rates should go up alot..

Also on the topic of insurance: How is it handled if someone smashes into your car? Would their insurance pay to repair the swapped engine/whatevers broken?

Thanks!

ACHEAPSHOT · Post by **ACHEAPSHOT** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:02 am

If you end up either buying an SRT-4 or doing the motor swap, don't bother getting toys w/either the stage II or III kit. Many guys I know w/SRT's say it isn't worth the money. In fact, if you want to make biiig power, go w/an AGP 50 trim kit. My car club leader has an 05 SRT w/50 trim, and is very close to making 400 whp.

lvlistchif · Post by **lvlistchif** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:52 pm

insurnace wont pay for anything aftermarket...

Post by **Diablo0** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:25 pm

lvlistchif wrote:insurnace wont pay for anything aftermarket...

Not necessarly, some will without question while others won't unless you added the part to your policy and pay more for them to cover that aftermarket part.

$3K isn't that bad for a donor car but be sure to take a good luck at it before purchasing to get an idea what you'd need to replace. Radiator isn't that bad, only around $300 but when you start getting into AC lines and condensor if you wanted to put the AC on your car, power steering pump, just everything that was damaged, the cost of parts can go up quite fast.

Jimbro727 · Post by **Jimbro727** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:34 pm

Hey thanks for all the info! Ironically, some idiot rear ended me yesterday.. soo I'm going to see if there's a way I can turn that and some cash into an SRT-4 haha..

Good info about the AGP kit, that's the kind of power I'd like to make. How streetable is an SRT with that kit, though? This is a daily driven car, but I'd like it to make as much power as possible. I've heard that a stage 3 SRT can sometimes be hard to drive daily.. but I've never had any hands on experience, just hearsay.. so what do you guys think?

c2k · Post by **c2k** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:35 am

ACHEAPSHOT wrote:If you end up either buying an SRT-4 or doing the motor swap, don't bother getting toys w/either the stage II or III kit. Many guys I know w/SRT's say it isn't worth the money. In fact, if you want to make biiig power, go w/an AGP 50 trim kit. My car club leader has an 05 SRT w/50 trim, and is very close to making 400 whp.

you drive a 2005 SXT

I shouldnt have to say anymore.

Stage 2 w/o toys and w/ toys are a HUGE difference.... I m getting the STage 2 w/ toys cuz I drove my buddy's SRT S2 w/ toys and W/o toys at the track.

stage 2 w/ toys w/ slicks + HOM + DAB3 = 12.7/109ish mph
stage 2 w/o toys w/ slicks = 13.3 ish...

so.. there's a HUGE difference.. I m going w/ the mopar route mainly bc of simplicity and plug in play route.

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:43 am

^ Stage 2 w/ Toys is what I'm getting.. Heat soak is a major issue here in SW FLA. And those Intercooler Sprayers will come in handy.

And MY insurance went down when I bought my car so

ACHEAPSHOT · Post by **ACHEAPSHOT** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:35 pm

Canuck_2k wrote:
ACHEAPSHOT wrote:If you end up either buying an SRT-4 or doing the motor swap, don't bother getting toys w/either the stage II or III kit. Many guys I know w/SRT's say it isn't worth the money. In fact, if you want to make biiig power, go w/an AGP 50 trim kit. My car club leader has an 05 SRT w/50 trim, and is very close to making 400 whp.
you drive a 2005 SXT

I shouldnt have to say anymore.

Stage 2 w/o toys and w/ toys are a HUGE difference.... I m getting the STage 2 w/ toys cuz I drove my buddy's SRT S2 w/ toys and W/o toys at the track.

stage 2 w/ toys w/ slicks + HOM + DAB3 = 12.7/109ish mph
stage 2 w/o toys w/ slicks = 13.3 ish...

so.. there's a HUGE difference.. I m going w/ the mopar route mainly bc of simplicity and plug in play route.

Oh, I forgot, only SRT owners are capable of knowlege about turbo systems and upgrades.

msmoorenburg · Post by **msmoorenburg** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:17 pm

Canuck_2k wrote:
ACHEAPSHOT wrote:If you end up either buying an SRT-4 or doing the motor swap, don't bother getting toys w/either the stage II or III kit. Many guys I know w/SRT's say it isn't worth the money. In fact, if you want to make biiig power, go w/an AGP 50 trim kit. My car club leader has an 05 SRT w/50 trim, and is very close to making 400 whp.
you drive a 2005 SXT

I shouldnt have to say anymore.

Stage 2 w/o toys and w/ toys are a HUGE difference.... I m getting the STage 2 w/ toys cuz I drove my buddy's SRT S2 w/ toys and W/o toys at the track.

stage 2 w/ toys w/ slicks + HOM + DAB3 = 12.7/109ish mph
stage 2 w/o toys w/ slicks = 13.3 ish...

so.. there's a HUGE difference.. I m going w/ the mopar route mainly bc of simplicity and plug in play route.

Another SRT Owner

(you buy the car and hate on your roots)

Jimbro727,

I would go the direction that your buget / time permits. Personally i've owned all 3 generations of the neon platform. My preference is the 1gen. It's lighter and cheeper than the 2gen or Srt, and for under 4k total my 1gen a boosted 4dr that is a complete sleeper that run's mid 13's on a STOCK 2.0 AUTO on 9 psi

Jimbro727 · Post by **Jimbro727** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:36 pm

Alright good info again guys..

As it turns out, I have to get this damage fixed, because there's alot of internal damage from the idiot's jeep underneath the bumper cover.. so I'll just see how things go.. and if I think I'll have time to do the swap.

I mean blue book says I can get 6-7k on a trade-in for my 05 SXT with its options.. do you guys think that's realistic?

Then again the swap can be done over time as I get the money needed.. so there's tons of pros and cons.

Would I also need to swap in an SRT-4 suspension? Wheels?

Thanks!

J-Villa · Post by **J-Villa** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:24 pm

yea my insurance would go down on a srt4, pt gt or anything of that nature...and also if you wanna do the swap and pay for normal neon insurance...well if you wreck and total it...and they pop the hood and see a turbo motor that you didn't tell them about...theres a chance they wno't cover anything at all

Adam K. · Post by **Adam K.** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:34 pm

You will not need SRT-4 Wheels if you don't use SRT-4 Front Brakes. This most simple thing would be to keep your stock brakes. If you have ABS already might be easier at least in the beginning. This way you can keep from swapping or modifying your steering rack. In either case you will need to drop the sub frame to put in the engine. What I did was jack the front up as high as I could and then dropped the car to the ground. Then I used an engine hoist to pull it up.

The suspension on the SRT-4 is a little stiffer but you can get away with yours and upgrade later. I personally have 2002 ACR Struts and SRT-4 Springs. I’m sure my car can out handle a stock SRT-4. If I did it again I would use Tokiko Blues with First Gen R/T springs. But that is just me.

I spent way over $4000 on my swap but I didn’t get a donor car. I bought an engine from eBay and ended up having to buy a bunch of other things as parts were broken or missing. Also you will need to get fluids plus many other things as you go.

It’s really up to you. Considering your car is a 2005 and can get $6000-$8000 and you would pay about $4000 to do the swap that is about $10,000-$12,000 you could use to buy a SRT-4. I personally enjoyed doing the swap but if I had to do it again I would have sold my R/T and just bought a SRT-4

Jimbro727 · Post by **Jimbro727** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:34 pm

OK some more great points.. yes I would like to do the swap, but there are alot of factors that weigh in.. as you just said, adam, for the price of the swap I could probably pick up a used SRT. And the insurance thing bothers me.. I should check with Geico about what they do if I have a nonstock engine, and how that's handled. If it gets totaled, which isn't very hard on a 7k car, I don't want to lose everything!

Also, I'm sure an 04 SRT-4 would retain its value alot better than my 03 SXT with the swap. And it has the potential to be a future collectible, I mean it had a short production run, and alot of other factors sort of line up with the 60s/70s muscle car era..

My next problem is how to coordinate selling/buying if I went down that route? Would I lose alot of money trading my current neon in for an SRT at a dealer somewhere? If i did a private sale, I'd be without a car and run the risk of not finding a good SRT, or if I bought the SRT first, I'd run the risk of not being able to sell the neon or not being able to sell it for what I was expecting.. what do you guys think?

c2k · Post by **c2k** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:49 pm

uh what?

get this straight

I didnt BUY a srt4. I have a 2001 RT and I did the swap.

I currently have the S1 w/ S2 WGA on my car. I know what I see and I know what is good. You see, it is based on what is good for the drivers. HP isnt everything and as a matter of fact, there's a guy on srtforums running low 12s in the 1/4 - STOCK TURBO, no spray, stage 0.

so please kindly get your facts straight about me and do your homework first before you start doing the smack talk.

Yes S2 w/ toys does make very low HP on the dyno, but on the 1/4 track it is proven to be a 12 second car w/o any doubts, I know cuz I drove one.