No More Rear Defroster?

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:26 pm

Well, my rear defroster quit working... I'm not sure when, but I noticed this a couple weeks ago when I tried to use it, it won't come on. Almost like a bad fuse or no power. I went through and checked an assload of fuses and can't find one that's blown. I took off the front trim bezel to see if I hooked the harness back up after I had the bezel off a few months ago and it's hooked up. But when I press the switch, nothing happens. Has this happened to anyone else? I really need to get this working because we got like 3" of snow today and not having it in the winter is really going to suck the big one.

Thanks!

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:33 pm

didnt Someones Rear Defroster catch on fire

bad04srt · Post by **bad04srt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:41 pm

are you sure its not working? if the light didnt come on maybe its just a bad light.....otherwise did you check the fuses under the hood? and if that doesnt work might be a short in the wire

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:47 pm

moxhairr/t wrote:didnt Someones Rear Defroster catch on fire

blacksapphireneon's defroster shattered her rear window... I know of that incident. I don't really care, though... I'm willing to take that chance if I can back up my car safely.

bad01neon wrote:are you sure its not working? if the light didnt come on maybe its just a bad light.....otherwise did you check the fuses under the hood? and if that doesnt work might be a short in the wire

Yeah, I'm sure it's not working. I tried it and it never came on. I checked all fuses, so it can't be a short... (A short would have blown a fuse.) Maybe a loose wire?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:02 pm

DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - GRID LINES
The horizontal grid lines and vertical bus bar lines printed and fired on the inside surface of rear window glass comprise an electrical parallel circuit. The electrically conductive lines are composed of a silver-ceramic material which when fired on glass becomes bonded to the glass and is highly resistant to abrasion. It is possible however, that a break may occur in an individual grid line resulting in no current flow through the line. To detect breaks in grid lines the following procedure is required:

Turn ignition ON and turn control switch to ON. The LED should come on.
Using a DC voltmeter with 0-15 volt range, contact terminal (B) with the negative lead of the voltmeter. With the positive lead of the voltmeter, contact terminal (A) (Grid Line Test). The voltmeter should read 10-14 volts. A lower voltage reading indicates a poor connection in the feed or the ground circuit.
With the negative lead of the voltmeter, contact a good body ground point. The voltage reading should not change.
Connect the negative lead of the voltmeter to terminal (B) and touch each grid line at Mid-Point with the positive lead. A reading of:
Approximately 6 volts indicates the line is OK.
0 volts indicates a break in line between Mid-Point (C) and terminal (A).
10-14 volts indicates a break between Mid-Point (C) and terminal (B).
Move the lead toward the break and voltage will change as soon as the break is crossed. Refer to (Grid Line Test).

DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SWITCH
The rear window defogger switch may be tested in the vehicle or out of the vehicle, on the bench.

IN-VEHICLE TESTING
Remove the switch from the instrument panel but leave the switch connected, (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - REMOVAL) and (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - INSTALLATION).
Turn the ignition switch ON.
Using a voltmeter, check for battery voltage at Pin 1 and 2 (Rear Window Defogger Switch Harness Connector). REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SWITCH and HARNESS CONNECTOR PIN CALL-OUTS PIN FUNCTION
1 FUSED B+
2 FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN)
3 GROUND
4 PANEL LAMPS DRIVER
5 PANEL LAMPS DRIVER

If OK, go to Step 4.
If NOT OK, check fuse 7 in the fuse block and the 40 Amp cartridge fuse in the Power Distribution Center (PDC). If fuses are OK, check wiring circuit. Refer to the appropriate wiring information. The wiring information includes wiring diagrams, proper wire and connector repair procedures, further details on wire harness routing and retention, as well as pin-out and location views for the various wire harness connectors, splices and grounds.
Check Pin 5, with switch in the ON position there should be battery voltage and no voltage in the OFF position.
If OK, go to Step 5.
If NOT OK, no voltage in the ON position or voltage in the OFF position. Replace the switch.
Press switch to ON position. The indicator lamp should come on and remain on for approximately 10 minutes. If the indicator lamp fails to light or no voltage is present for approximately 10 minutes. Replace Rear Window Defogger Switch. (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - REMOVAL) and (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - INSTALLATION).
BENCH TESTING
First remove switch. (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - REMOVAL) and (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - INSTALLATION).
With switch removed from vehicle, use a jumper wire and connect a 12 volt supply to Pin 1 and 2. Using a third jumper wire, ground Pin 3. Refer to (Rear Window Defogger Switch Connector) and the Rear Window Defogger Switch and Harness Connector Pin Call-Outs table.
Follow the same procedures used for IN-VEHICLE TESTING, except for step Step 2.

DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SYSTEM
Electrically heated rear window defogger operation can be checked in the vehicle in the following manner:

Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
Connect an ammeter in series with the battery. Push the rear window defogger switch to the ON position. A distinct increase in amperage draw should be noted.
The rear window defogger operation can be checked by feeling the glass. A distinct difference in temperature between the grid lines and adjacent clear glass can be detected in three to four minutes of operation.
Using a DC voltmeter, connect the negative lead to Point B, and the positive lead to Point A (Rear Glass Grid Line Test - Typical). The voltmeter should read 10-14 volts.
Step 2, Step 3 or Step 4 above will confirm system operation. Indicator light illumination means that there is power available at the switch output, and does not necessarily verify system operation.
If turning the switch ON produced no distinct current draw on the ammeter the problem should be isolated in the following manner:
Confirm the ignition switch is ON.
Ensure that the heated rear glass feed wire is connected to the terminal or pigtail and that the ground wire is in fact grounded.
Ensure that the cartridge fuse and control circuit fuse are OK and all electrical connections are secure.
When the above steps have been completed and the system is still inoperative, one or more of the following is defective:
Rear Window Defogger Switch.
All rear window grid lines would have to be broken or one of the feed wires are not connected for the system to be inoperative.
If turning the switch ON produces severe voltmeter deflection, the circuit should be closely checked for a shorting condition.
If the system operation has been verified but indicator lamp does not light, replace the switch.
Refer to the appropriate wiring information. The wiring information includes wiring diagrams, proper wire and connector repair procedures, further details on wire harness routing and retention, as well as pin-out and location views for the various wire harness connectors, splices and grounds.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:03 pm

I hardly ever use my rear defroster, even when there's frost to defrost

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:46 pm

What is this 'Frost' we speak of?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:09 am

^^^
Can tell you dont live up north

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:39 am

I havent used my Rear Defroster.. not on the R/T and Not on the SRT. It's November 3rd and it was 89 degrees yesterday.

Loud-e-nuf · Post by **Loud-e-nuf** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:02 am

The tab actually came off the window on mine which caused it to stop working just had to resolder it.
________
Iolite reviews
________
High Value Engine

dblsg · Post by **dblsg** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:02 pm

i didn't read all of brr's post, but i would try a jumper wire to the switch

eastwoodsn352 · Post by **eastwoodsn352** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:10 pm

sounds like it time for........

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:33 pm

Thanks Chris! I'll have to skip to that second test, because the LED on the switch does not come on. Is there anything common about the rear defrosters that you know about going bad on the '03+'s, with the dealership experience you have?

AMilbut · Post by **AMilbut** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:20 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - GRID LINES
The horizontal grid lines and vertical bus bar lines printed and fired on the inside surface of rear window glass comprise an electrical parallel circuit. The electrically conductive lines are composed of a silver-ceramic material which when fired on glass becomes bonded to the glass and is highly resistant to abrasion. It is possible however, that a break may occur in an individual grid line resulting in no current flow through the line. To detect breaks in grid lines the following procedure is required:

Turn ignition ON and turn control switch to ON. The LED should come on.
Using a DC voltmeter with 0-15 volt range, contact terminal (B) with the negative lead of the voltmeter. With the positive lead of the voltmeter, contact terminal (A) (Grid Line Test). The voltmeter should read 10-14 volts. A lower voltage reading indicates a poor connection in the feed or the ground circuit.
With the negative lead of the voltmeter, contact a good body ground point. The voltage reading should not change.
Connect the negative lead of the voltmeter to terminal (B) and touch each grid line at Mid-Point with the positive lead. A reading of:
Approximately 6 volts indicates the line is OK.
0 volts indicates a break in line between Mid-Point (C) and terminal (A).
10-14 volts indicates a break between Mid-Point (C) and terminal (B).
Move the lead toward the break and voltage will change as soon as the break is crossed. Refer to (Grid Line Test).

DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SWITCH
The rear window defogger switch may be tested in the vehicle or out of the vehicle, on the bench.

IN-VEHICLE TESTING
Remove the switch from the instrument panel but leave the switch connected, (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - REMOVAL) and (Refer to 23 - BODY/INSTRUMENT PANEL/ACCESSORY SWITCH BEZEL - INSTALLATION).
Turn the ignition switch ON.
Using a voltmeter, check for battery voltage at Pin 1 and 2 (Rear Window Defogger Switch Harness Connector). REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SWITCH and HARNESS CONNECTOR PIN CALL-OUTS PIN FUNCTION
1 FUSED B+
2 FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN)
3 GROUND
4 PANEL LAMPS DRIVER
5 PANEL LAMPS DRIVER

If OK, go to Step 4.
If
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SYSTEM
Electrically heated rear window defogger operation can be checked in the vehicle in the following manner:

Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
Connect an ammeter in series with the battery. Push the rear window defogger switch to the ON position. A distinct increase in amperage draw should be noted.
The rear window defogger operation can be checked by feeling the glass. A distinct difference in temperature between the grid lines and adjacent clear glass can be detected in three to four minutes of operation.
Using a DC voltmeter, connect the negative lead to Point B, and the positive lead to Point A (Rear Glass Grid Line Test - Typical). The voltmeter should read 10-14 volts.
Step 2, Step 3 or Step 4 above will confirm system operation. Indicator light illumination means that there is power available at thnectors, splices and grounds.

Thread revival!!! (Hey at least I searched before I started a new thread.

)

BRR or anyone else that might know...where was this procedure taken from? I'm clueless as to what point it is referencing when it says Point A and Point B and so on...

At this point I just know my rear defogger switch light works, and that's about it.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:26 pm

Seeing as it came from BRR, I bet its from a service manual. Point A and B probably refer to a picture.

AMilbut · Post by **AMilbut** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:28 pm

Yea. I have the Hayne's manual, well buried somewhere in some boxes. (Moved)

But if it's the FSM I'd have to out and buy one. It'd be a good excuse for me to finaly get one anyways.

I tried googling the Grind Line test also and came up with like 3 sites, none of which helped either. Woes me.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:29 pm

Haynes = junk

BRR works at a dealer so I'm sure its from an FSM

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:36 pm

I'm assuming Terminal A is the 12V + side and Terminal B is the ground (-) side. I have never checked it on a Neon, but I would think the trim on the rear inside has to be removed to access the terminals. Basically if you have voltage to chassis ground on the hot side the circuit is good to the grid. Then if there is no voltage from the Terminal A to Terminal B the ground is bad for the grid. The chances of the whole grid failing at once are only as good as someone taking a sharp object and scraping down the entire window.

AMilbut · Post by **AMilbut** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:14 pm

Yup yup. I found the picture in an FSM. And for future reference...

AMilbut · Post by **AMilbut** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:59 pm

Found the problem with my rear defrost. It was pretty simple when I took the panel off. The connector the metal tab that attaches to the windshield itself came off. Do I need any sort of special conductive glue to put it back on or what? You can see the wire just kind of chilling there in the bottom left corner of the picture...

srtjesse · Post by **srtjesse** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:45 pm

same thing happened to mine what can i use to glue or atach it to the window again only on mine its the one on the other side

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:11 pm

I have heard of ppl soldering them back on, but my luck I would shatter the windshield, tho prolly not likely, if a needle tip iron was used. I would wait for a better answer, or just call the dealer and see if they sell something. I'm sure they don't replace the whole window for this under warranty, but then again.... Maybe Dante has a PN# for a repair kit? If you post in the PN# request section and link to this thread, it might get his attention faster, and help for future reference.

srtjesse · Post by **srtjesse** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:04 am

well on sunday i hit my rear defrost by accident and didnt notice i al of the sudden start to smell and see smoke like crazy so i start looking around and notice the led in the button is on so i turned it off once the smoke cleared i hit it again to see if it would do it again and the rear glass exploded this shit sucks ass no i gotta get a new glass 285 buck and right before christmas

ZeroChad · Post by **ZeroChad** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:58 am

srtjesse wrote:well on sunday i hit my rear defrost by accident and didnt notice i al of the sudden start to smell and see smoke like crazy so i start looking around and notice the led in the button is on so i turned it off once the smoke cleared i hit it again to see if it would do it again and the rear glass exploded this shit sucks ass no i gotta get a new glass 285 buck and right before christmas

Jesus! That had to be enough to make you shit your pants.

Hopefully you can get if fixed soon.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:43 am

Wow, I missed this one.

Chrysler never offered this, but Permatex makes a defroster tab repair kit...

Part #21351

srtjesse · Post by **srtjesse** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:33 pm

ZeroChad wrote:
srtjesse wrote:well on sunday i hit my rear defrost by accident and didnt notice i al of the sudden start to smell and see smoke like crazy so i start looking around and notice the led in the button is on so i turned it off once the smoke cleared i hit it again to see if it would do it again and the rear glass exploded this shit sucks ass no i gotta get a new glass 285 buck and right before christmas
Jesus! That had to be enough to make you shit your pants. Hopefully you can get if fixed soon.

oh yeah it sounded like some one shot the glass so yes i drove straight home and shanged my pants man