How to get my stock 04 r/t up to 200hp?

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:03 pm

Like the name says...im wondering if anyone knows how i would be able to get my stock 2004 dodge neon r/t up to 200hp

from the stock base line of 150hp....or if it is even possible...and i want to do it without a turbo charger...any help will be well appreciated

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:10 pm

um, i won't say impossible because anything is possible with enough money. But in your situation it's probably impossible without turbo or nitrous.

You could go with a 50 shot of nitrous and still be really safe with the car..that'd be about 200hp.

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:12 pm

is there anything else i could do? CAI, headers, exhaust, ignition coil, plugs and plug wires? anything like that?

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:39 pm

i'm still waiting on the 2.2 stroker from darrell cox that should put me over the 200whp mark. but, let me tell you that it costs big bucks. more than your car is worth. plus you'll have the headache of having to wait months on a build and delivery. unless of course you own a machine shop at which point it gets much more reasonable. suffice it to say that i'll have 200whp and a reliable motor for about 2k+ more than i would have paid for an srt swap and had 230whp. there's always something cool about being different, but prudence says do the swap or just do bolt-ons. if i had it to do over again that's what i'd do. my 02 with all of the bolt-ons made a little over 130whp on the dyno. with bolt-ons and exhaust on an r/t you should be close to 145whp. after that it's all headaches and money.
brad

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:41 pm

my car is an 04 r/t....so stock it is already at 150hp....im just lookin for 50 more hp

...without a turbo

Mr Josh Zombie · Post by **Mr Josh Zombie** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:43 pm

Good luck... that's all I can say.

You'll need to buy pretty much every bolt on, build both the top and bottom ends, and get someone to do some damn impressive tunning on that thing to get to 200hp N/A style.

That's pretty much what the motor will top out at as far as I know without going with forced induction

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:46 pm

ya i know that....but ive heard its difficult to turbo charge my high compression r/t....not only that but very costly...thats why im looking for the best possible way to make it fast without a turbo

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:50 pm

stratton08 wrote:my car is an 04 r/t....so stock it is already at 150hp....im just lookin for 50 more hp ...without a turbo

read closely grasshopper, there is a difference b/w wheel horse power and crank/flywheel horse power. unless you have access to an engine dyno and someone who's willing to let you put your 4 banger on it (4cyl are rough on engine dynos and many places won't touch one) you're never going to know fwhp. so let's stick to whp. your stock r/t makes about 130whp. realistically you've got the ability to make another 15 or so with bolt-ons. voila, 145whp. translate that with 15% drivetrain loss (standard) and you'll roughly have 167fwhp. to get more than that is going to require, 1. nitrous, 2. turbo, 3. tearing into the internals and upping compression, increasing displacement, porting/polishing the head, 4. going up on the cam lobe geometry.
brad

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:53 pm

oh sorry...a bit tired today...thanks for the advice that helps alot

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:08 pm

seriously, spend the 3 grand and swap an SRT motor in and call it a day.

zandifam · Post by **zandifam** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:26 pm

Just put a nitrous kit on it and follow the manufacturer's recomendations. Don't even bother with the bolt ons. You already have a good exhaust, unless you just like the idea of being obnoxiously loud without being noticeably faster. Like everyone is saying, to make any measureable power N/a you'll need an aftermarket computer to add rpm range, a BIG cam, and you still won't be that fast, just loud and less driveable. Even the factory airbox is not that bad with some do it yourself mods like a better filter, elimination of the resonator and the neckdown in the 90 degree bend. An underdrive pulley helps if you don't have a big system. Don't bother with a throttle body. Throttle response is better but top end power doesn't improve that much considering the cost(unless you put the big cam in and scream it to 7500. Like has been said, it can be done, but forced induction is easier and you'll end up with a faster car.

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:21 pm

zandifam wrote:Just put a nitrous kit on it and follow the manufacturer's recomendations. Don't even bother with the bolt ons. You already have a good exhaust, unless you just like the idea of being obnoxiously loud without being noticeably faster. Like everyone is saying, to make any measureable power N/a YOU'LL NEED AN AFTERMARKET COMPUTER, a BIG cam, and you still won't be that fast, just loud and less driveable. Even the factory airbox is not that bad with some do it yourself mods like a better filter, elimination of the resonator and the neckdown in the 90 degree bend. An underdrive pulley helps if you don't have a big system. Don't bother with a throttle body. Throttle response is better but top end power doesn't improve that much considering the cost(unless you put the big cam in and scream it to 7500. Like has been said, it can be done, but forced induction is easier and you'll end up with a faster car.

no dice on the computer for an ngc car unless megasquirt is sorted out to read spark, fuel and tune. i know it was sort of working a while back, but not sure if all of the kinks are worked out. but, then it's always going to be a tuning nightmare, constant cel on, no cruise, etc, and i'm not sure that the airbags will work either. can't say for sure on that last one.

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:30 pm

What about an srt 4 exhaust system would that be any better than my stock system...and if i do get all the obvious bolt ons like CAI, ignition coil, plugs and plug wires, UDP, and so on.....where do u guys think that would put me hp wise as well as drivablity?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:21 pm

Dont waste your money on the SRT exhaust, its not worth the money

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:05 pm

all bolt ons will get you to about 137hp at the wheels.. lol

Good Luck. I tried with my 03 R/T.. turned out to be a better handling car than a fast car.

Save your money and buy a used SRT-4

srt4evah · Post by **srt4evah** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:16 pm

stratton08 wrote:What about an srt 4 exhaust system would that be any better than my stock system...and if i do get all the obvious bolt ons like CAI, ignition coil, plugs and plug wires, UDP, and so on.....where do u guys think that would put me hp wise as well as drivablity?

The basic power-adder bolt-ons for a Magnum, from what I have read so far are:

Exhaust rear-section (i.e. muffler, catback is not necessary, stock piping is plenty for NA)
CAI
UDP
60mm throttle body

Throw in a few extras like plugs/wires/coil etc., you'll probably go from 150HP at the crank to maybe 165-170HP at the best case, or 130FWHP to 140FWHP.

If you want to get to 200HP at the crank, that extra 30-35HP would come in the form of an extrude honed intake manifold, aggressive cams, long tube headers, and some sort of ECU tune that I don't think exists off the shelf for the '04 Magnum motors.

*NOTE* By FWHP I am referring Front Wheel Horse Power, not Fly Wheel Horse Power (I don't think that's a real acronym)

zandifam · Post by **zandifam** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:19 am

Nitrous will give the best gain without affecting driveability. However, if you have lots of money and patience, there is a guy on the other org with a swapped magnum that dynoed with 181 horse to the wheels which would be over 200 hundrend at the crank. He has a milled magnum head, custom intake, a "special" computer(for a 1st gen as that's what it's in) long tube header, cai, "BIG" cam, (the crane 7) and is screaming it to 7500 or above. Even with all that, he's only making 135 peak ft/lbs of torque. This will be pretty fast in a light car like a 1st gen, but how driveable will it be? Again he has the option of a better computer, which l don't believe you do. Or you could do a turbo, which would probably be faster and more driveable if tuned right, but way expensive. Again nitrous seems like the cheaper answer.

ChrisRT · Post by **ChrisRT** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:29 am

I'm tempted to throw on this nitrous kit I have for my R/T, just for kicks.

I think it would work really well with my setup. A little 50 shot, jetted and dyno tuned...

Hmm.

Intake
Axle back
60mm TB
UDP
Ported and smoothed magnum intake...

Hmm

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:28 am

so u guys think nitrous is the best way for me to go? i am going to get all the other little bolt ons and im thinking about modifying my intake...oh and just the other day i went out and measured my tb and it measured 60mm...do they come stock with 60mm tb's? anyways ur guys advice as helped alot....keeper comin

GTS · Post by **GTS** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:21 pm

Do the SRT motor swap and that would be ~4-5K$
or a 50-75shot nitros wet kit for 600-900$ and call it a day
I would also put the neon on a diet, reduce as much weight as possible.... and that would make it a lil faster as well.

I am happy with my 01 ATX its all suspension and no go parts... but its still hell of a lot of fun to drive even thou its slow as hell. My friends fight over it all the time... they all wanna drive it and they all got much better cars then me.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:38 pm

changing the coil, plugs and wires will not improve horsepower.

srt4evah · Post by **srt4evah** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:52 am

racer12306 wrote:changing the coil, plugs and wires will not improve horsepower.

No, it won't add any power to a well maintained engine, but having a perfect spark will make the power consistent. It will degrade if you don't replace those eventually, so might as well get quality replacements.

playboy2k4 · Post by **playboy2k4** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:36 am

Honestly dude go and find a good deal on an srt-4 and trade your car in for stock 230whp, a comfortable looking body kit, nice sound stock, a basically all around better car. I know if I could turn back the hands of time thats exactly what I would do. good luck though in whatever you decide.

srt4evah · Post by **srt4evah** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:05 am

Yeah, SRT-4 is probably the best route to the next level of power. Problem is, you'll be hard pressed to get one for less than $13k, even the 2003's are holding their value unlike any normal car.

So many have been wrecked, so few were made, and they're so damned easy to take up to 400HP, they're in demand.

Reliable, streetable 200HP for your Magnum engine is not going to be cheap... I'd guess it would cost $3-5k depending how you do it, and how reliable you want it to be. For the cost difference, you could probably trade up to an SRT-4, and have more power, great durability, and be looking at getting to 300HP fairly easily instead of struggling for 200HP.

zandifam · Post by **zandifam** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:25 am

With an entry level nitrous kit where you FOLLOW the manufacturers recommendations you will have no problems. I wouild guess that with around a 60 to 75 shot you will be running close to a stock SRT-4(I haven't ran mine at a 1/4 mile track so don't flame me, although I was real competitive with them at an eighth mile track). The con to this is paying 30 to 50 dollars for filling the bottle and having to open the valve to have the power. But just think how all the money you save in insurance and in not being upside down for trading in your car for something else. That'll pay for a lot of nitrous.

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:33 am

i'll make this easy for everyone. 2.2 stroker, forged 10.5:1 bottom end, prototype magnum head with wacko p&p job for crazy flow, ion nitrated crank, coated bearings, blueprinted oil pump, pan-evac system to decrease bottom-end pressures, full 2.5" free flow exhaust with ceramic coated fast fabs long tube header, custom box intake (matched to engine specs), the list goes on and on. i'll be happy with this build if i make over 200whp. i won't say what all of this is costing but there is also the machining cost for the build so you can only imagine that the cost vs. hp compared to an srt is retarded. call me weird, but i just like to be a little different. bang for the buck is no comparison. srt wins hands down. i'd forget about buying a used srt. just find a wrecked one and do a complete swap. once the motor, tranny, electronics and interior are swapped there is no difference b/w a non-srt and an srt. well except for brakes and struts. but, that's easy enough and cheap too. and always remember that the insurance on a non-srt will run b/w 30-40% less. good luck.

00element10 · Post by **00element10** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:36 pm

i would say dont touch the car for a while, you're only 17. No 17 yr old needs nitrous in his car, try explaining that to your parents, or the insurance company when you wreck your car/someone elses car. just my opinion tho, do what you want, spend your money how you want.

srt4evah · Post by **srt4evah** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:55 pm

Yeah, 200HP NA is a bit ambitous for the 2.0 Magnum. It might be even better to just go for a 2.4L swap and work from there, you could probably get 200HP out of that even cheaper than going all out on the Magnum.

The best bang for the buck for a Magnum motor is probably to just do all the basic bolt-ons, and be happy with the 20-30HP you get out of that. It will make a difference, and it won't leave you broke.

zandifam · Post by **zandifam** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:16 pm

Sgt Brad, I'm anxious to see how much power your setup will make. It's good to be different sometimes. And if we were all totally logical we wouldn't spend any money modifying our cars, but what fun would that be. So if it costs more than an SRT swap and it makes you happy, go for it.

stratton08 · Post by **stratton08** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:30 am

the only reason i didnt get an srt is because of insurance...i am only 17 well 18 at the end of the month....but anyways insurance is even rediculous for my r/t i couldnt imagine the srt. So im gunna stick with the r/t. it is fun to be different...everyone has an srt...i know they're a better car but i cant afford it. i have nitrous on the mind for my car as well as some other little bolt ons...hopefully that will make it a little bit quicker.....and oh ya...does anyone know how the srt exhaust would sound on my car?...i heard it sounds pretty mean