Engine light problem?

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:18 pm

I had my PCM updated yesterday and after that following occured:

before, when turning the key to ON-position, the light beside fuel light (engine light) usually turned off after few second (after dashboard light test sequence).
But since they made the update at local dealer, the engine light stays on until you start the car. Then it also turns off.

Is this somewhat normal or do I have to take it to the dealer again next monday...?

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:51 pm

If the keyswitch is in the run position and the engine isn't running it will illuminate the engine light. As long as it goes off when you start the engine everything is fine.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:20 pm

Do all the lights go away after starting the engine?
Its always possible that when the pcm was reflashed, it also got added code to send to the instrument cluster to test more lights than usual...
I'd say if the lights go away after start up then dont worry about it..

Wisher2 · Post by **Wisher2** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:36 am

Actually there may be something wrong. If you turn the key without turning the car on and the light stays on wait to see if it is followed by a ding/charm. If so I would take it in and have them fix that. look in the owners manual. It will tell you the same thing

Dutch_Neon · Post by **Dutch_Neon** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:08 am

I have that with my oil light, even now when my oil isn't low anymore. I don't get any dings or whatever, and it goes off when I start the engine. It didn't do that when I bought it but I'm not having any problems. So probably you don't need to worry. And in case you do, just run the auto-diagnostic programme to see if it comes up with any errors. You know, it's the trick with turning the key several times.

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:29 pm

Wisher2 wrote:Actually there may be something wrong. If you turn the key without turning the car on and the light stays on wait to see if it is followed by a ding/charm. If so I would take it in and have them fix that. look in the owners manual. It will tell you the same thing

It does make a ding/charm if I leave the key to ON-position and wait for few seconds.
And it seems that also the oil light does the same...it doesn't go away until I start the car.
Could this be because when I had my latest oil change done, the freakin mechanic overfilled...?..... It's only a hair over MAX-line but still..

All the lights do go away when I start the car and I checked the codes but nothing there...only the usual 1684 (bat discon in last 50 starts)...

Just seems odd. And I don't know if these two are connected to each other but now, when I start the car, it won't take rpms for a second or two but after that it goes back to normal...I mean that the car almost stalls and shakes a bit and then it's normal again...
It somehow seems to crank differently...
Thou it might have something to do with the fact that it has been raining for like 4 weeks in a row....wet, wet, wet...

But before the PCM reflash, it used to start instantly and with no problems...

Odd lights and hard starting....That's what I "gained" from reflashing....

Dutch_Neon · Post by **Dutch_Neon** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:01 pm

If you disconnected the battery within the last 50 starts, your car might still be learning how to run properly. It does that since you reset the PCM by disconnecting the battery. It's normal for it to behave strangely for a while. It shouldn't last long though, say 75 miles max. Still having problems? Visit the dealer...

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:35 pm

^^^
Agreed, drive it for a few days to relearn everything and see what happens then.....

Wisher2 · Post by **Wisher2** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:46 pm

If your car has a problem like mine does
(liquid fuel vapor seperator malfunction)
You cel will stay light until you turn the car over. What happens is that the car starts to recycle the error that is being transmitted but because the error is constant it dosent recycle. So in other words you have a problem that the PCM dosent understand and there is no code for as well as it dosent hinder the driving performance........That is from DCx. The tech was real cool. He did the full fuel treatment and injector cleaning and all that business for the cost of the diagnosis. To bad he had to give me a $500.00 answer to my problem

CA180 · Post by **CA180** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:24 pm

I wouldnt worry about it unless all the light stay lit after you start the car....

If yer that worried, take it back and tell em. They will check because you think something was wrong since they werked on it.

Trust me, i werk for a "stealership"

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:16 am

Yeah, gonna have to take it back to the dealer...

Today, same thing with the start-up. Not taking rpms and cranks oddly. Almost feels like it's gonna stall.... It's been doing this every morning since the re-flashing...

And about the engine light, I also noticed that when the key is ON-position, engine light is on for few seconds, then comes the ding/charm and after that the engine light blinks 10 times, stops and stays on... Yet, all lights go away when I start the car....WTF?

But I'll need to talk to the dealer. I'm not paying for them to fix what they f**d up...

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:57 pm

Ok....
So, I took it to the dealer today and this is what they find out about the problem...:

Nothing.

That's right. Absolutely nothing useful.

This is how it went:
I explained the problem to servicemanager and he had no idea what could be the problem.
So they decided to take a look and plug it into the OBD-scanner.
OBD-scanner result was: no codes, no "trips" (whatever that means??) or anything weird.
Then the mechanic took a look under hood.
Just like I had done home yesterday...
And found nothing wrong, no leaks or bad wires etc.
Only thing that he also found weird was the cel-light...

So mechanics final judgement was:
Nothing was found to be the reason for these problems...

After that I talked with servicemanager about 15 minutes and told him several times that the cel-light and hard starting problems came AFTER the PCM re-flash and somehow he had difficulties to accept that...
But they didn't charge me (would have been 75€) and the servicemanager booked me another day to take the car back and they would take a closer look. He said he would also call to the guy who trains theirs Chrysler mechanics and ask him about the CEL.

These problems got to be related to the re-flash because they came right after that.
Friday 1.12 before I took it to re-flash: No problems with starting what so ever.
Saturday 2.12 morning after re-flash: Bad cranking and hard starting and the cel-light...
And hard starting is noticeable only with the first cold-start (after the car has completely cooled down, 6-8 hours or so...)
Although cranking seems to a little weaker now even with warm engine...you know...I takes longer to "fire-up"
And I have checked plugs, coil, TB, battery, grounds....pretty much everything

CA180 · Post by **CA180** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:49 pm

Hmmm... maybe the reflash causes it to check the lights longer...

do you have any info on the reflash?

You have the 2.0 or 1.8?

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:34 pm

It's not about checking the lights. When key is in ON-position, test sequence is done normally but the CEL-light stays on until I either turn key into OFF-position or start the car...
And same with the oil light on some occasion...not everytime...odd...

What about you guys...does your cel-light tun off after few seconds or stays on until start or key off?

Control Module re-flash/update info:
Old was 05033085AA
new is 05033085AC

Yeah it's a basic 2.0 SOHC 16v...
I'm 99% sure that these problems accumulate because of the re-flash. They came right after it...

Post by **Canada** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:34 pm

CA180 wrote:Hmmm... maybe the reflash causes it to check the lights longer...

do you have any info on the reflash?

You have the 2.0 or 1.8?

I thought export cars were 1.6L displacement?

CA180 · Post by **CA180** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:01 pm

Let me go check and see if mine stays on.... / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \

BACK NOW:

Ok, my engine light and oil light both stay lit... and after about 10 or 20 seconds I get a chime or ding.. whatever you call it.

So, i dont know what to tell you bro

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:43 pm

EclecticBlue wrote:
CA180 wrote:Hmmm... maybe the reflash causes it to check the lights longer...

do you have any info on the reflash?

You have the 2.0 or 1.8?

I thought export cars were 1.6L displacement?

1.6 are, what I heard ,only available in Germany and Africa.
Haven't seen a 1.6 ever here in Finland.
All are with 2.0 engine and about 85-90% of them are ATX (mine is MTX).
And the "magnum"/2.0 DOHCs are rare specialty also. I've seen only one so far...

CA180 wrote: BACK NOW:

Ok, my engine light and oil light both stay lit... and after about 10 or 20 seconds I get a chime or ding.. whatever you call it.

So, i dont know what to tell you bro

Ok, so the cel-light might be normal consequence of the re-flash...
And I also get the ding after 10-20 secs.
Good to know, thanks.

CA180 · Post by **CA180** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:16 pm

Dont know what to tell you bout the hard starting... Battery going bad... I dunno

Neonisti2000 · Post by **Neonisti2000** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:58 am

Yeah, I need to measure resistance from battery to starter, batt itself.... it could be that when the mechanic did the re-flash, he didn't put the bat on charge so it went completely empty...
I don't know.
I need to check and double-check the battery and everything else concerning ignition...yesterday I already checked TB and IAC, TPS, ECT...all the sensors that I could think and found nothing weird.