joelrgr and myself need your help to solve a dispute...

[Mr Josh Zombie]

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE STORY AND RESPOND!!

Here’s the situation.

For the past month or so, I’ve been paying off a body kit from Joel that he was selling after he returned his car back to stock. He had told me that the kit was in an accident and had been repaired last May or so, and has held up just fine. I never seen any pictures of the actual body kit off the car, I was just taking his word for it. I’d seen PLENTY with it on his car, and it looked perfect to me.

Well, after awhile of PM’s back and forth, turns out a buddy of his does paint work, and would agree to paint it for material cost ($120) plus $75 for his trouble. I agreed fully, and stated numerous times for his buddy to take his time so the paint came out perfect. No runs or anything, because I’m really anal retentive about my paint work.

Well, I sell my current body kit and all of that, give him $425 through paypal, and agree to give him the $120 when I meet him halfway in Holt Michigan to pick it up.

He updates me from time to time on the paint work, saying that he’s fiberglass a few parts that are cracked and what-not, fixed the rear because it had issues when being taken off, and that it’ll be getting sprayed soon enough. It comes closer to meeting each other, he tells me there are a few drips, and that they’ll be taken care of before I pick the kit up.

Sunday comes around, I get my dads truck, spend $65 in gas, and head up to Holt Michigan at 10am. We meet, unload the kit from his van, into my truck, I give him the money, we’re off. I didn’t bother to look the kit over because it was early as hell in the morning, and I was just going to take his word on everything.

He did note that there was some sealer showing throwing on the mounting locations due to over-buffing. I looked at it quickly, wasn’t too worried about it, and put it in my truck.

I get it home, go to mount the front bumper… it doesn’t line up at all. There’s a gap in the headlights, and the fenders aren’t lining up at all. I begin to notice A LOT of mistakes in the paintwork as well. Places where body filler is needed, a lot of runs, dips in the paint, and it appears there isn’t enough base applied. The side skirts have a lot of runs, but seem to mount up fine. (I haven’t secured them yet) The rear I didn’t look at the paint work much, but it needs re-slotted to fit correctly.

I contact Joel, take pictures with my cell phone, and we agree that material cost in paint should be refunded. $120 needs to be sent my way. His buddy feels that the $75 shouldn’t be though, because of the work he put into it. (Even though the work didn’t come out good, at all.)

We’re both taking this as calmly as possible. My friends and what not say I should just get all my money back, and he should take the kit. His friends say the $75 should not be refunded because a body shop would of cost a hell of a lot more. I just want to get it fixed, painted, and on my car with as much money refunded as possible, considering in my eyes, I don’t feel the kit is in the condition of what I expected by anymeans.

What do you think should happen? Joel, feel free to add to this post as much as possible. I believe I got the story correct.

P.S. My car is coming back to Toledo tonight, I’m going to attempt to get the kit to fit properly, and take A LOT of detailed pictures of the paint screw ups.

[kc2005ptgt]

I am a firm believer that when you pay to get something done and both parties agree on a price and quality of work, then you need to stick to the agreement - if either party fails to perform their end of the contract, then all finances should be refunded and/or problem fixed free of charge... my .02

[dblsg]

i'll wait until the pics are posted

[Mr Josh Zombie]

Cell Phone Pics:







Better WILL be posted tonight...

[dinetuner]

if i screw up someones flooring i dont get paid for it.. plus $200 for paint?!!? thats a huge rip you need to get back your 75 dollars. or he needs to complete the job as required if he really doesnt know what he is doing why is he trying to do it? something tells me he has no idea what he is doing working a spray gun is easy as hell and is like riding a bike once you "get it".

[dblsg]

[joelrgr]

if i screw up someones flooring i dont get paid for it.. plus $200 for paint?!!? thats a huge rip you need to get back your 75 dollars. or he needs to complete the job as required if he really doesnt know what he is doing why is he trying to do it? something tells me he has no idea what he is doing working a spray gun is easy as hell and is like riding a bike once you "get it".

$200 for a painted kit is ridiculously cheap, around here a kit to be painted will run about $700. It was $120.03 in materials + $75 for him to spray it.

Now ive spoken to Opi about this as mentioned, my friend that sprayed feels he did his job, be it some portions faultered he did his job and still did well over $75 worth of work. I asked for an unbiased opinion from a local custom shop and they said they wouldnt even sand it down and primer it for that cheap, they probably wouldnt even mount it to the car that cheap.

The gap in the headlight and the general not fitting on the front bumper of his car is an issue yet to be played with. The kit fit fine on my car and there was a gap by the headlight that i told him already but wasnt even big enough to get a flathead screwdriver into (the rubber around my headlight could be moved to cover it). I think it just needs some fitting to actually fit it other than what he told me was a basic bolt up to see how everything was.

I understand his issue with it, the cracks he speaks of i never saw,and as much as one would side either way ive given him the benefit of the doubt that it DIDNT happen in his hands. I offered to give him the material cost back to assist in getting it "fixed" because i DONT screw people over, i dont brush people off, and im understanding when it comes to pickyness as my Neon was a show car. The $75 this thread is about though is another story. It's my friend's portion, he did the work, feels he did much more than $75, and even though he missed things i specifically told him to pay attention to, he feels you get what you pay for. As much as that sucks, it's his feeling on it. When i told him i sold the kit and the guy was looking to get it painted and wanted to know if hed spray he said yes, asked him how much and he told me like $75. He did not tell me he would do a $75 job, just that hed do it for $75. He DOES know what he's doing, he's painted almost all of our local nice show cars, but i do not know wtf his deal was with this.

[00element10]

yeah i totally agree with you getting your money back 100%, if he was willing to do the work for that much money, then he should have done the work for that much money, obviously he didnt keep up his end of the deal and should not be entitled to keep the money he was paid to do so. End of story. He really has 2 choices of action here. You get a full refund and you give the kit back. Or he repaints everything free of charge. Now if it was me, i'd give the $75 back because it's going to cost me more in paint than $75. There's always legal ways to solve it but i would hate to have to do that to people just to get what i originally paid for.

[joelrgr]

yeah i totally agree with you getting your money back 100%, if he was willing to do the work for that much money, then he should have done the work for that much money, obviously he didnt keep up his end of the deal and should not be entitled to keep the money he was paid to do so. End of story. He really has 2 choices of action here. You get a full refund and you give the kit back. Or he repaints everything free of charge. Now if it was me, i'd give the $75 back because it's going to cost me more in paint than $75. There's always legal ways to solve it but i would hate to have to do that to people just to get what i originally paid for.

The $75 was not the paint, thats the $120.03 material cost ive already refunded him as i too dont feel it was a well done job.

[Mr Josh Zombie]

Everyone, remember the MAIN issue at hand is the $75.

In a perfect word, I feel I should get a full refund and just buy Marakkas kit, but it's not perfect and I realize this.

Since Joel is being so understanding of this, and not completely dicking me over, I'm just trying to get my $200 back from paint.

He's currently paypaling me the $120 right now, and I'm pushing I get the rest of the $75 back. This is out of his friends pocket, not his. Joes end of the deal is done. I have my kit. I just have to work to get it to line up now... if I can't get it mounted correctly, then I'm going to be really pissed, but that will be found out over time. I just haven't had the chance to screw with it yet.

We're both telling the story correctly, so use an unbiased answer, igonore who either of us are, and let us know.

Needless to say I want my money.

[dblsg]

i kinda have to agree with joe... its really out of his hands. he shouldn't have to pay for someone else's f-up. at the end the lesson is you get what you pay for if its too good to be true, it probably isnt.

[Jbucky05]

that really sux hope everything is resolved and works out for ya opi

[marakka]

You are honestly more of an understanding person than I am. I would demand all of my money back on the whole kit.

The cracks, the fitment issues and the paint would all add up to me being a very pissed off person. But I can see where yall are trying to work it out.

My opinion on the work done...... Lets put this in perspective... A guy puts a radio in a car and offers to do it at a discounted price... much much cheaper than the normal price at a stereo shop. You get the car back and the dash is all burnt up and the radio doesn't work. The guy spent 3 hours putting it in You wouldn't think of paying him would you? This guy did lackluster work. he's the one that quoted the price. If you wanted a body shop to do it and they charged full price and then they fucked it up would they say they aren't going to fix it because thats going to take more time? Nope... they'll fix their fuck ups.

[Neonix]

Personally I think you should get the $75 back. Or he should fix it at his own cost since he screwed it up to begin with (which is what any respectable shop would do, regardless of what they quoted you). He probably thought screw it, I'm only making 75 bucks off this, who cares. And now that you're demanding your money back I wouldn't even want him to repaint it because he's going to be pissed at you and God knows what he might do to it then.

As far as the kit and a full refund situation goes...I hate to sound like an ass but you should have asked for pictures of it before you bought it. Especially since it was in an accident. I'm not saying it's all your fault Opi, so please don't think that. And I'm not saying none of the fault is on Joel either. In a way some of it is on him as well. Since you're so into your car and it got into an accident, you mean to tell me that you didn't go over that bumper and kit with a magnifying glass to see the extent of the damage and didn't notice those cracks? But again I'm not laying blame or fault an one person in particular, so neither one of you should think that.

When I got my neon back from the shop recently they did a great job on my rear bumper. And I noticed that they also pulled my car into too far to something because now the lip on my 6 mo old R/T front is chewed up from concrete. He says that they never moved the car, so it's impossible for them to have done it. BS. I know my car top to bottom, I know where every existing scratch, or chip is at. And those were not there when I brought the car in.

[dinetuner]

joel i respect and understand you but still my problem is that there was an agreement that a a service was going to be provided at a certian price. as a contracter myself if i underbid myself i still must finish the job correctly. personally how i see it is your buddy underbid himself and butchered the job just to finish it and leaving it to you to clean up the mess. dont get me wrong i mistaked that the 200 was just for the front kit not the whole kit. and in no way am i saying you should pay for your friends mistake HE should pay for HIS. again whether or not it was a "deal" an agreement is a agreement opi and you held up your side i believe he should uphold his.

[joelrgr]

I do want to add that the kit was in Excellent condtion fitment and form on my car, how the cracks got there i am oblivious because i never saw them until he sent me pics. I think i have enough pictures of my car with that kit on it on this site...i already told him in private conversation that i was giving him the benefit of doubt that he didnt cause the cracks. Im being far beyond understanding with this.

[MyNeonSaysHi]

IMO pictures should of been taken of the kit off the car, along with any damage. Especially when it comes to buying an expensive item like that. If I was Joe and I saw the work my buddy did and it turned out shitty, I would tell him to fix it BEFORE getting it to Opi. Also On Opi's half, he should have looked it over more when he met him personally and saw the problems. But then again it was early in the morning and it was a long drive, I too would want to get my shit and get the hell back home. Say Opi didn't like the looks and noticed the defects in the kit. What would he say to him? They both drove a distance, which takes time and money and to do all that and say "I don't want it, I want my money back" Isn't a fun thing to hear. I honestly think the seventy dollar should be refunded because the painter and joe should of seen the mishaps and had it fixed before they gave it to Opi, and if it could not be fixed let him know with pictures of how it turned out BEFORE make a big trip. I think on both sides everyone was kind of in a "rush"?

[Mr Josh Zombie]

Everyone has damn good points so far, on both are parts.

I was dumb to NOT get pictures before agreeing to buy this. Hell, I was dumb for look looking at the kit before we drove off. He wasn't the smartest for doing the same. We both screwed up.

Joe, like I've said, I'm ignoring the cracks. Just refund my full $200, and we'll call it done. I'll deal with the rest on my own. For some reason to agreed to this perfectly fine yesterday, but you're now trying to back out of it.

I even have PM's stating that you're more than happy to refund me the $200.

[00element10]

yeah in my relatively long winded statement i might have failed to say the $75 should be refunded because he said that's what he said he'd paint it for, it is the principle of it.

if i told you if you bought my body kit and i'll paint it for you for 75 bucks and it came to you in that condition...you'd be pretty pissed. I understand that it's out of your hands but you should tell your buddy to own up to his poor work and fix the problem.

[03_SXT]

Alrighty...

Having done a lot of business with Joe, I will try to give a fair and unbiased opinion.

I think that two of the parties involved are at fault. The painter, and the buyer.

The buyer should have inspected the body kit before handing over the money to make the transaction final. It's just like buying anything else that is used or second hand, you always thoroughly inspect and check out what your buying before you finalize the sale.

Now on the other hand, the painter should return at least half of the $75. That person did afterall put some time and work into painting the kit, so having that person refund the full $75 wouldn't be right.

This is my opinion. I know I didn't get into every single aspect, like the cracks, runs in the paint, kit not fitting right, etc...

Just so you know, I voted that the $75 not be returned in full. Like I said, some of it should be refunded. You get what you pay for, and the painter should also know that if he wants to keep painting, he shouldn't be running his business like that.

I also think that if Opi wants to return the kit back to Joe, that should be allowed.

~Amit

[dinetuner]

Alrighty...

Having done a lot of business with Joe, I will try to give a fair and unbiased opinion.

I think that two of the parties involved are at fault. The painter, and the buyer.

The buyer should have inspected the body kit before handing over the money to make the transaction final. It's just like buying anything else that is used or second hand, you always thoroughly inspect and check out what your buying before you finalize the sale.

Now on the other hand, the painter should return at least half of the $75. That person did afterall put some time and work into painting the kit, so having that person refund the full $75 wouldn't be right.

This is my opinion. I know I didn't get into every single aspect, like the cracks, runs in the paint, kit not fitting right, etc...

Just so you know, I voted that the $75 not be returned in full. Like I said, some of it should be refunded. You get what you pay for, and the painter should also know that if he wants to keep painting, he shouldn't be running his business like that.

I also think that if Opi wants to return the kit back to Joe, that should be allowed.

~Amit

dud i think we should send you to north korea and talk to hochikung whateve his name is

[J-Villa]

i think if you want my opinion.....you actually got a deal... for a sand down, repaint, and fixing the bumper for 200? that's INCREDIBLY cheap....i have 3 friends who are reputable painters in the area and they have charged over 300 to repair and repaint a FRONT ONLY..... sounds like to me the guy just used materials he had and just bought the actual paint for it.....as for it not fitting, that should be expected...it's goin onto a totally different car, then the one it was fitted with...even though it is a neon goin from a neon but it was through an accident so i would of expected a little bit of non fitting...

i feel like you should go to a local body shop and ask how much they would charge for a sand down, fix, and repaint and then you would of realized in the beginning 200 bucks your not gonna get a show quality paint job.....

that's just my 2 cents, plus i think you should of fully checked it out before exchanging money. if you dropped your car off to get repainted and you don't check it when you leave and then you find errors on it the body shop probably won't fix it becuase how would they know if you didn't cause the damage to it yourself.....

dunno i said what i think and now i'm staying out of this....if you BOTH wanna talk to me further about it in the future let me know since i am the feedback moderator or get in touch with jason....

once everything is all said and done please do leave feedback and do it right.....

[sphipps70]

I don't know either of you so here is what I think.

After looking at the pics I have determined that my 9 yr old could have painted it better.

The guy who tried to paint it should refund the full amount.

[SlvrACR]

That bumper doesnt usually fit good from the box. My buddy had alot of work for his to looks good. I pay over $200 for just a front bumper usually. I think the painter should have to eat the materials cost but you should have realized it was to good to be true.

[joelrgr]

That bumper doesnt usually fit good from the box. My buddy had alot of work for his to looks good. I pay over $200 for just a front bumper usually. I think the painter should have to eat the materials cost but you should have realized it was to good to be true.

I ate the material cost lol I paid for it up front, recieved it when we exchanged, and sent it back to him within 3 days.

The issue is also not with ME refunding the $75, it's my friend that painted. I would also like to point out that i have pics of it beforehand (but before being wetsanded) that show no cracks or anything, is why i told Opi that it MAY have happened while being buffed. I also want to add that the paintjob itself isnt HORRIBLE lol it does shine like a mofo from what i saw lol

I DID however show Opi some of the lack of basecoat that was mentioned when we exchanged, but all i saw was where it was on the mounting surfaces and he said it was ok because it wasnt in visible places. [/b]

[SlvrACR]

*Whipsers* Im on your side LOL
No I dont htink you should pay I think your painters should if anything.

[joelrgr]

Opi:
"Joe, like I've said, I'm ignoring the cracks. Just refund my full $200, and we'll call it done. I'll deal with the rest on my own. For some reason to agreed to this perfectly fine yesterday, but you're now trying to back out of it."

Im not backing out of it, the $75 isnt my money and im not paying that much more for his mistake, it's bad enough that i paid the $120 because of his mistake. The $75, if returned, will be coming out of his pocket.

[03sxt]

[grambo]

I am SO impressed with the mature responses here. Friggin bravo for working it out like men. I am truly impressed. I hate body kits cuz they usually fit like that. I've rattle-canned roll cages that looked better. Send the kit back, get your full refund, eat the gas costs. Lessons learned. Still though, high-five guys.

[Midnight_Rider]

I am SO impressed with the mature responses here. Friggin bravo for working it out like men. I am truly impressed.

+1