New setup! Could use a bit of help from audio guys :)

rmc03 · Post by **rmc03** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:23 am

Hey guys! Finally missed my bass enough to buy a whole new system. Most of it is here, some is still on the way.

2 12" Alpine Type-R Subs (Dual 4ohm voice coils)
Goldwood Dual Sealed Box
Kenwood KDC-MP5032 Head Unit
Kenwood 1000 watt 2ch. (500rms x 1 @ 2ohms) Amp

Here's the subs:

Q1: A friend of mine told me that my one Kenwood 1000 watt amp will be able to power the two alpine subs to their max, they are rated at 500W rms a piece. He's a JL guy and honestly I think he just doesn't like my subs.

Do you guys think I should get another of the same amp on the way then run one amp to each sub as I was planning?

Q2: The reason I pulled my old system out is because things went downhill.
- The amp would turn on, but go into protect mode.
- The small gain controller LED upfront just blinked instead of shutting off like it normally did when something was wrong.
- Ground wires for capacitor/amp, and all connections were good.
- All fuses were good.
- Tested the output of the capacitor, only put out around 5V. Amp would turn on in protect mode wired with capacitor or not.
- Even when everything did work, everything would shut down and come back on after about 5 sec. with the system turned up if the car was not running.
- Since the system shut down I've been having problems with all lighting flickering when the car is started and sometimes when I'm driving.
- I still need to see if I can get my old amp to turn on and work using someone else's wiring in their car. It's cold out.

I've been reading around that it's a good idea to upgrade the main grounds in the engine bay to 4ga. ground wire. I think I'll try to do this very soon. I've also read that a (120amp?) PT cruiser alternator bolts up. Do you guys think if I get a new capacitor the new setup will work? I'm not sure why I could never sit with the car not running and turn the system up without it shutting off.

Any input at all would be a great help. Thanks guys - Ryan

Mr Josh Zombie · Post by **Mr Josh Zombie** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:13 am

I didn't read your post, because I know very little about audio here.

Gotta say though, You'll get very few responses about audio questions here. I would suggest going and finding an audio forum and get your answers there.

Dutch_Neon · Post by **Dutch_Neon** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:05 am

Q1:
No you cannot drive both subs on this single Kenwood amp. When you hook up both subs on a bridged amp you can go for either:
- 2 Ohm load
- 8 Ohm load
- 0,5 Ohm load
I think your amp can't handle 0,5 or 8 Ohm so it will become 2 Ohm. It then delivers 500 watts RMS total, but the woofers can handle 500 each. Pumping up the volume in this case will result in a greater demand from your woofers than your amp can deliver. To try and provide the neccessary power anyway, it will send out a distorted signal which will ultimately destroy your subs.

The problem however, is when you hook up 1 subwoofer to this amp, you get a load of either 1 or 4 Ohm. Once again, I think this amp cannot handle a 1 Ohm load so you would have to go for the 4 Ohm hookup. Looking at the power supply of this amp (500 watts x 1 @ 2 Ohm) I think it will again not deliver enough power for 1 subwoofer. Usually an amp delivers twice as much power @ 2 Ohm as it does when it's @ 4 Ohm. So this would mean you still have only half the power you need, just like when you hook then both up to one.

Basically you bought the wrong amp. I would suggest to get a new amp. Buy a mono amp that is 1 Ohm stable, and delivers at least 1000 watts RMS @ 1 Ohm. It's best to have some power more then you need, so the amp will not have to work overtime to provide enough power.

Q2:
With power ratings of 1000 watts RMS, you will need:
A bigger alternator (PT works as far as I know)
A GOOD capacitator of 1F or more (if you get one for 10 bucks, you might as well put in an AA battery)
A good battery, could be a yellowtop or just one with better performance then a regular one.

yellowpatrol · Post by **yellowpatrol** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:19 pm

Nice subs though.
Mine:

rmc03 · Post by **rmc03** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:54 pm

dutchneon, i'm not sure what you're talking about with getting a load of either 1ohm or 4ohms.

the amp is stable at 500rms x1 @ 2ohms and 250rms x2 @ 4ohms.

the sub is set up in the picture for 2ohms, and can also be set up for 4 ohms. one bridged amp to one sub, 2ohms, good.

not sure why you're saying it won't work out, it should work if i want to run one amp to each sub.

Dutch_Neon · Post by **Dutch_Neon** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:51 pm

If you have one bridged amp and two 4 Ohm DVC woofers, you can hook them up like this:
- subs in series, voicecoils paralel: 2 Ohm
- subs and voicecoils in series: 8 Ohm
- subs and voicecoils in paralel: 0,5 Ohm
- subs in paralel, voicecoils in series: 2 Ohm
As I said earlier, your amp cannot handle a 8 Ohm load or a 0,5 Ohm load. So you would have to go for the 2 Ohm hookup. At 2 Ohm your amp delivers only 500 watts, while each subwoofer can handle 500 watts (1000 watts total)

If you have one bridged amp and one 4 Ohm DVC subwoofer, you can hook it up like this:
- voicecoils in series: 4 Ohm
- voicecoils in paralel: 1 Ohm
Your amp cannot handle a 1 Ohm load, so you would have to hook it up for a 4 Ohm load. At which your amp doesn't have enough power again.

Remember, one single voicecoil sub on a bridged amp is indeed a 2 Ohm load, like you say. But you don't have a SVC subwoofer, you have a DVC. That's where you go wrong.

If your amp can deliver 500 watts x 1 at 4 Ohm, you should be fine. I am confused because you say it will put out
- 2 x 250 watts @ 4 Ohm
- 1 x 500 watts @ 2 Ohm
What about the power output in bridged mode @ 4 Ohm? That should be 500, as I see it. Maybe you read the specs for your amp as 2x250 or 1x500 in bridged. Because you forgot you work DVC subs, maybe you added the "@ 2 Ohm" yourself since you figured that is what bridged modus would become?

oklamopar · Post by **oklamopar** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:58 pm

buy another amp of the same

Dutch_Neon · Post by **Dutch_Neon** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:57 pm

If indeed the amp delivers 500 watts @ 4 Ohm in bridged mode, then buy another one and you're good to go.

rmc03 · Post by **rmc03** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:22 pm

i was mistaken earlier about it being bridged an have it at 2ohms. i'm thinking i would just run it out of one channel to get 500 x 1 @ 2ohms.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:44 am

to give type Rs there potential you have to put them in a nice ported box with specs towards them subs. i would also sell the amp you have and get something like a hifonics amp or something of that sort.

I would upgrade all your grounds to 4gauge. Get an amp that does around 1500watts @ 1ohm. Type R's have been seen to be able to handle 1100watts daily with the gains set accordingly

rmc03 · Post by **rmc03** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:43 am

i hooked them up tonight, man the lows are crisp and hit hard. i'm running them off of my one 500rms 2ch. kenwood amp, and it can max out both of them.. do i really need another amp?

my friend wired the subwoofers up to the amp.. haven't really looked at it to see what exactly he did yet, subs are @ 2ohms, one set of speaker wire is run off of the one channel (500x1) it goes to the left sub, then i believe we ran them parallel to the other sub?

not sure why we didn't just use the 250rmsx2@ 2ohms and run a set of wires to each sub..

i ran it off of the stock head unit for now, once i get the new cd player, turn the box around so the cones are facing the rear of the trunk, seal up the one sub a little better, and do a better job with wiring, should sound a lot better. i'm happy again.

annnnnd!! no capacitor, headlights aren't dimming, i can sit with the car not running and turn it up the whole way, doesn't reset everything!!! its great

Dutch_Neon · Post by **Dutch_Neon** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:16 am

Congratz. Hope it keeps working. Just watch for clipping (weird subwoofer behaviour). If you don't already have bought a headunit, try to get one with high voltage line-outs. It relieves your amp.

Paralyzer · Post by **Paralyzer** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:52 pm

what ohm are you coice coils on the sub? 2 or 4? which is this case per coil.... and what amp exactly do you have? model so I can check specs versus power of subs.

rmc03 · Post by **rmc03** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:56 pm

ya the stock head units pretty lame, the pre-outs on the head unit i'm going to buy are 4v so they should be good.

i turned the box around so the subs are facing the rear of the trunk. WOW. these are impressive. i didn't think they would rattle the car as much with a sealed box vs. my old setup in a bandpass box.. hahha, man was i wrong

the subwoofers are alpine type r dual 4ohm voice coils - 500rms a piece, 12's
the amp is a kenwood KAC-7252 1000 watts peak. should be able to push 500 rms. not 1000 rms subs?

once i get the one subs sealed a little bit better, and get a good head unit, i think everything will sound a lot better.

Paralyzer · Post by **Paralyzer** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:00 pm

that amp will only push 25% of power to each sub! you are only pushing 250 to each at this point!....I am telling you....get one more amp of the same specs or go with a mono block amp like the Directed 1200D or the planet audio 900D. running a mono block am and running paralell will pop it to 2 ohm each sub which in return will be a 1ohm load on the amp which is candy for a mono block.....that shit can hit some major DB if done right....I thought about these subs but I didn't have the cash to run the setup I wanted to do....oh well....also a 4th order bandpass would be bad ass with these subs...I am telling ya....you won't believe what they can do.....I was thinking about running these subs one of two ways......either 4th order bandpass.....or infinate baffle.....which in return is a bad ass setup to run in a car if done right and also gets good performance vs. style....it all depends. If you want to be serious in your car audio I would recommend getting the program bassbox 6 pro......that is what I used and it is just a audio program I have yet to find that can be beat. Hope some of this info helps...if you have any more questions...please feel free to PM me.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:56 am

If you get a better amp...you would be impressed how much potential those subs have. go look on the caraudio.com/forum website and go in the subwoofer section theres like 200-300 pages of people talking about Type-r in jsut 1 topic

d0ne420 · Post by **d0ne420** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:27 pm

why are you using a cap? is it for looks or for dimming? if its for looks then use it all you want, if its for dimming upgrade your BIG3 wiring..... you shouldnt need to upgrade your alt unless you have alot of electronics running ie interior and exterior lighting, tvs, video game console etc... i know of a neon that has official alpine F1 status, his entire dash has been turned into speakers, as well as in the rest of the car, and he is still running the OEM alt, he did do the BIG3 wiring, and doesnt have any dimming issues....

the system i have, which isnt in my car yet as im STILL(over 6months the shop had it built but it got flooded) waiting for my custom sub box, i am running jbl300.4 and jbl1100.1 amps, stock speakers all around(need more funding) and 2 x Ultimate Sound KW1000 series subs which are 800w RMS @ 3 ohms, since i have two of them my power demand is 1600w rms @ 1ohms, when i had them in my car temporarily i had big time dimming issues, so i purchased from Adam K. a alt over drive pulley, which will go onto a PT/SRT-4 alt and be swapped in, i will also be doing my BIG3 wiring at the same time. im then gonna aquire a yellow top optima, perhaps two, one for the trunk.

i wont buy a cap, unless i already had everything else done, adding a capacitor to a system that has dimming is actually causing more harm than good, becuase you have added one more thing to a electric system that is already suffering from power drain, so why would you add in another toy which wants more power..... caps were good back in the late 80's early 90's when amps werent as effecient and needed more power.

PHSXT · Post by **PHSXT** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:00 am

Just because a sub says it can handle so many watts rms doesn't mean you have to give it that much power and 250 watts to each sub is plenty. If its not loud enough for you, build a ported box, if that isn't loud enough for you build an ABC box or a snail shell. Its all about the application, just do what sounds good to you.

Paralyzer · Post by **Paralyzer** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:55 pm

to bring up a old post....with these subs...I would say run IB(infinate baffle) with them....you can get them to sound really good and also make your trunk look good at the same time. those subs need space to breath and turning your intire trunk into a box would help. I have been thinking about doing this with the Type X series...but haven't decided fully.