Magnum missing oil mystery

hnknrob · Post by **hnknrob** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:42 pm

hey guys, im new to this board but was happy to find it and hope somebody can help me. im not sure if this is where this should be going. but it is an engine section so i figured id give it a try.

hey folks, ive got a 2001 chrysler neon r/t that seems to be missing about 1 liter of oil after 3-4 thousand kilometers worth of driving. there seems to be some moisture aounrd the oil cap as well as the pcv where it goes into the valve cover. theres also seems to be a minimal amount on the back of the valve cover and the timing cover.

2 things that should probably be noted are that theres never been an oil puddle under the car, and there isnt any oil coming out the tailpipe. i just thought id ask you guys and see if anyone can explain, where this oil is going and what can be done to stop it.

lvlistchif · Post by **lvlistchif** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

lol same thing happens to me lol, i just keep refilling it, i start a post once but no one really answered my question, maybe ull get one that i can benfit off of

if i had to guess id say that it leaks out of like the oil pan gasket while the car is on or something like, oil dosent move around in the oil pan unless the pistons are moving which means the car is moving, well that was my guess lol, prob not the best but when i replaced my oil pan i didnt put any sealer on it when people told me i should have. but i hope someone has an answer, im going to install a catch can soon so ill see if maybe that is it.

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:04 pm

Hm....1 liter in 3-4 kilometers....I'm trying to convert that to quarts and miles...

It's most likely just burning the oil off, sucking it through the intake manifold out of the PCV valve in the valve cover. You might try simply replacing your PCV valve with a new one. Neons are notorious for burning oil. Some do it worse than others. Highway driving will usually use more. I go through 1 quart in 3000 miles. 1 liter in 3000 kilometers is slightly more usage than that, but not a ton. Also, my rear main seal leaks. Your's might too...never causes a puddle, but get's oily and yucky all underneath the passenger side of the engine.

EDIT: You won't be able to smell it burning off or see it. The only way you'll see evidence of it is if you have someone watch the tailpipe as your secondaries open on the intake manifold (aka, 5000 rpm at wide open throttle). You probably get a little puff of black smoke then....but that's all you'll ever see.

ACR MAN · Post by **ACR MAN** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:01 pm

There was a long-term discussion of the oil-loss-through-pcv-system phenomenon over at neons.org:

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t ... sc&start=0

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:34 pm

^^^ thats probably it.

pull off the bellows tube and stick a rag or something in there and see if there is oil.

one thing you can do is a "$20 catch can" there is a how to in the how to section, or you can get one of the more flashy catch cans.

hnknrob · Post by **hnknrob** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:41 pm

thanks guys, ill try a new PCV valve providing its not the same cost or more than a catch can and go from there. shes gettin about due for another oil change, so ill check it out then, and keep you guys posted. thanks again for the help.

btw, i did read through the above mentioned thread on neons.org, but with that many people involved on the thread the symptoms list became huge and i started to disregard it as people seemed to be blaming everything under the sun on the pcv.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:43 pm

pcv valve should only cost $4 or $5 USD

SlvrACR · Post by **SlvrACR** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:50 pm

The PCV will not stop the oil from going into the manifold.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:52 pm

true, but no harm in trying. if the situation all of a sudden popped up then it could help. if it has been going on for a while then it probably wont help at all.

hnknrob · Post by **hnknrob** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:30 am

one question about going the catch can route. if you put a catch can in place of the pcv hose routed back to the intake, the oil will still leave the engine, it just wont be entering the combustion cycle correct?

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:04 am

most of the time, yes. but it will be collected in the can instead of being dumped into the manifold.

hnknrob · Post by **hnknrob** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:21 am

i thought so but wanted to verify. the way ive heard some people talk talk about catch cans, its as if they install it and never worry about it again.

ill likely go the catch can route, but had anybody found a way to actually keep the oil in the engine?

SlvrACR · Post by **SlvrACR** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:51 pm

Some person found that if he put a 90 degree elbow facing up on the manifold the gravity kept the oil in. I dont know if it works for sure.

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:38 pm

^ what he said might help. Basic problem is the design/placement of the PCV valve in the first place. It's in the wrong darn spot.

Also....I have an eBay catch can installed....and I still use the exact same amount of oil as I did before.

And the catch can never get's more than an ounce or two of oil in it. Somehow, it's not doing it's job.

I think the air/oil seperator with a filter would work better, for what it's worth.

hnknrob · Post by **hnknrob** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:05 pm

i think i might try the 90 degree elbow just to see if its an actual solution to the problem. even though the cool factor of the catch can does kind of make me want to throw one into the engine bay anyways. i think i might try the 90 degree elbow just to see if its an actual solution to the problem. naturally ill keep you guys posted on any findings, thanks again for the help. you folks have set up a great site here

ACR MAN · Post by **ACR MAN** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:06 pm

The best fix for Magnum oil loss through the PCV system is what JeffB#2 over at neons.org suggested:

1. Install the 1995-98 oil restrictor in the block

2. Enlarge the oil return passages in the cylinder head

3. Switch to a 1996-99 SOHC aluminum valve cover, since it locates the PCV fittings (both makeup air and PCV valve connection) in positions that do a better job of keeping oil out of the PCV system.

Note that fixes #1 & 2 require that you remove the cylinder head. If you install a catch can, make sure that it's in series with the PCV valve and fitting on the intake manifold.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:45 am

I was going to suggest the aluminum cover from the 1st gen SOHC, but did not know what years; on a side note, how well does that help? I assume from what I have seen) the PCV is on the back, yes? Which would help when things get sloshed from side to side. Just curious...

And Dave, as far as your catch can only catching a little bit of oil but same amount being lost, maybe some is being burnt??? So before, some was burnt off and sloshed into the intake, but now it is being burnt off only

Maybe

Post by **Diablo0** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:19 am

ACR MAN wrote:The best fix for Magnum oil loss through the PCV system is what JeffB#2 over at neons.org suggested:

1. Install the 1995-98 oil restrictor in the block

2. Enlarge the oil return passages in the cylinder head

3. Switch to a 1996-99 SOHC aluminum valve cover, since it locates the PCV fittings (both makeup air and PCV valve connection) in positions that do a better job of keeping oil out of the PCV system.

Note that fixes #1 & 2 require that you remove the cylinder head. If you install a catch can, make sure that it's in series with the PCV valve and fitting on the intake manifold.

Pretty much the exact same thing Ed Peters suggested last year at N2k6. The reason behind the oil problem is that too much oil is going to the head and it can't exit fast enough since the return passages aren't large enough. On the non-mag head they're fine but when the increased the size of the exhaust ports that made a bottle neck in the oil return so the oil can't escape fast enough. Where does it go then, strait out the PCV line on hard turns and into the intake mani to be thrown out as blowby.

Post by **racer12306** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:06 am

so all those that are going to put a mag head on your car.

do all this stuff before you put the head on, it will save you trouble in the end.

ACR MAN · Post by **ACR MAN** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:12 pm

kc2002acr wrote:I was going to suggest the aluminum cover from the 1st gen SOHC, but did not know what years; on a side note, how well does that help? I assume from what I have seen) the PCV is on the back, yes? Which would help when things get sloshed from side to side. Just curious...

The fitting for the PCV hose is roughly in the middle of the valve cover. You can see the PCV hose right in front of the coil pack in this 1996 SOHC underhood picture. The fitting to which the hose attaches is just under the air intake duct basically under the "S" in the "SOHC" callout on the duct. The makeup air fitting is on the back of the valve cover near the coil pack, but it can't be seen in this picture.

Post by **Diablo0** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:16 am

All you have to do if you swap over the covers then is install an in-line PCV valve since our valves screw into the cover where on a 1st they dont' have that ability.

2GN.ORG

Magnum missing oil mystery

Magnum missing oil mystery

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