Cam gear worth it?

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:19 pm

I want to have more power in lower revs (rally car), i guess advanding the Cam 2 degrees might help, but i want to know how much, in what revs will i have the peak HP aprox... i wont pay the cam if i only send the peak back 500 revs or less.

Anyone have a dyno test of cam advancing?

fusion210 · Post by **fusion210** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:30 am

From what I've read, you got the wrong cam for what you want. The #14 seems to lose midrange power and not pick back up till 5.5k or so (vs magnum cam)
I've read of guys with automatics advancing it to help, but I haven't seen any hardcore results.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:24 am

I know the 14 is for high revs thats why im asking if advancing would really help, i dont think its the wrong cam, because the magnum cam is way too small.

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:47 pm

i added a 200 grind comp cam and crane cam gear. originally i had it at 0 degrees of advance. i really didn't notice a loss in low end, but it wasn't until well into 4k that the motor really came onto the cam. i advanced the cam 2.5 degrees last weekend and now the motor hits the cam around 3600-4k. it definitely shifted down the rpms a bit. i'm not sure if the crane 14 will have the same change. i was told that the 200 grind comp cam falls somewhere b/w the crane 12 and 14. good luck.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:14 am

yeah i saw that comparition too (and i think its wrong), as far as i know the crane0014 is bigger than the comp400 but whatever.

Anyway, so without advancing when was your peak HP and with the advancing where do you think it is.

If its less than 1,000 rpms then i wont waste my money.

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:33 pm

my peak was somewhere around 5500-6000rpm. it pulled very strongly from 4500-5500rpm. after that things started to taper off. after 6k plus the motor started to fall on it's face. it was still revving, but there was a noticeable decrease in intensity. i believe that the st header and stock intake, mostly the stock intake are the culprits at this point. after the cam advance i found that the motor pulls with gusto from about 3800 and up. it still falls flat at about the same place that it did before adjusting the cam gear. that is why i believe that the intake is robbing me. in short i have a strong pulling motor from 3800 to 6k. i rarely shift after 5k so driveability for me is just about perfect. i am probably going to try the afx/r pcm next and then it's on to replacing the intake and going to a lt header. we'll see though. further mods past the pcm are expensive and will only provide limited gains in the bottom end. keep me posted as to what you decide. if you can find one i also highly recommend to 200 grind cam if you're not into racing.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:31 am

i have a crane14 and im into racing, professional racing actually anyway, im still unsure unless i see a graph.

Since the 0.20"milling will advance a ill bit the timing.

GaryHowell · Post by **GaryHowell** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:05 pm

Baal wrote:I want to have more power in lower revs (rally car), i guess advanding the Cam 2 degrees might help, but i want to know how much, in what revs will i have the peak HP aprox... i wont pay the cam if i only send the peak back 500 revs or less.

Anyone have a dyno test of cam advancing?

Every 4 degrees you move the cam the operating RPM range will change by about 500 rpm's. Advance the cam 4 degrees your came will operate 500 rpms lower in the power band. that is how it is best used for tuning.

satrnbmb · Post by **satrnbmb** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:41 pm

Yup, it'll move down. From green to red/blue is from 0 degrees to 5 degrees advanced

. I'm only set at 2.5 advanced right now.

And that's my first trip to the dyno BTW so everyone be gentle.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:43 pm

GaryHowell wrote:
Baal wrote:I want to have more power in lower revs (rally car), i guess advanding the Cam 2 degrees might help, but i want to know how much, in what revs will i have the peak HP aprox... i wont pay the cam if i only send the peak back 500 revs or less.

Anyone have a dyno test of cam advancing?
Every 4 degrees you move the cam the operating RPM range will change by about 500 rpm's. Advance the cam 4 degrees your came will operate 500 rpms lower in the power band. that is how it is best used for tuning.

But wouldnt the valves hump the pistons with anything over 4 degrees in a 2nd gen with 14 crane cams?

satrnbmb · Post by **satrnbmb** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:24 pm

I certainly hope not. What are the symptoms of that?

Kernel Panic · Post by **Kernel Panic** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:10 pm

satrnbmb wrote:I certainly hope not. What are the symptoms of that?

Very loud noises, and worst case bent valves and holy pistons..

satrnbmb · Post by **satrnbmb** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:07 am

Haven't heard anything really loud. I did set it back to 2.5 degrees that week after it was set at 4 degrees adv. I drove home all highway miles from the dyno and I didn't hear anything. Car still pulls really well. I don't think I hit anything. Unless someone else has a quick test I could run without removing the head I don't know what else to look for. The car still runs fine.

sxt · Post by **sxt** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:32 am

Do a compression test, if the compression nubers are low you might have bent a valve.

satrnbmb · Post by **satrnbmb** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:25 am

OK, I'll see what I can come up with. Do you need a special compression tester tool for neons specifically, or do you think I can go pick one up at the local sears?

Like I said, the car runs fine, I don't notice any sputtering or anything. I wonder how far you could go before you mess up the valves.

GaryHowell · Post by **GaryHowell** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:43 pm

Baal wrote:
GaryHowell wrote:
Baal wrote:I want to have more power in lower revs (rally car), i guess advanding the Cam 2 degrees might help, but i want to know how much, in what revs will i have the peak HP aprox... i wont pay the cam if i only send the peak back 500 revs or less.

Anyone have a dyno test of cam advancing?
Every 4 degrees you move the cam the operating RPM range will change by about 500 rpm's. Advance the cam 4 degrees your came will operate 500 rpms lower in the power band. that is how it is best used for tuning.
But wouldnt the valves hump the pistons with anything over 4 degrees in a 2nd gen with 14 crane cams?

If you degree the cam first, you know your starting point. With that then you can move it without fear of the valves hitting.

DannyBoy · Post by **DannyBoy** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:29 am

satrnbmb wrote:OK, I'll see what I can come up with. Do you need a special compression tester tool for neons specifically, or do you think I can go pick one up at the local sears?

Like I said, the car runs fine, I don't notice any sputtering or anything. I wonder how far you could go before you mess up the valves.

Yes, they sell Compression testers anywhere, and the neon does not use a specific one.

You might want to do a cylinder leakage test too.

satrnbmb · Post by **satrnbmb** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:16 am

Now a leakage test, I've never been exposed to. How does someone do one of those?

DannyBoy · Post by **DannyBoy** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:37 pm

It pretty much does what a compression tester can't. It quickly spots bad valves, worn rings, cracked cylinder walls and blown gaskets.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:41 pm

you need to be more specific..... i'll do the best i can....
A leak down tester uses compressed air to fill a certain cylinder. You have 2 gauges, one for input air...and the other for leakdown...what it does is tell you wich cylinder has a leak and wich cylinder does not. You use it like a comp. tester(cyl by cyl) but it will let you know wich has the worst leaks by comparison. Keep in mind, if you have a set of aftermarket pistons and rings, readings should be different since you are suppost to change the ring end gap based on what you are planning on doing with the engine:forced ind.,NOS, N/A etc...
SO,
If you did a leak down on my stock bottome end R/T and you did a leak down on your(lets say modded)bottom end the readings wont be exact....
I dont know off the top of my head what the preffered leak down is for a stock magnum, but needless to say you can figure out wich cylinder is bad using the tool....

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

hijacked

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:52 pm

hijacked???

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:22 pm

brr wrote:hijacked???

i mean that the thread were hijacked to some valve bending discussion.

Anyway i wont get the camgear since ill focus on suspension for a while.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu May 05, 2005 5:43 am

this forum topic should be changed then....

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Cam gear worth it?

Cam gear worth it?

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