Long Tube or Pacesetter Header? and Hi Flow Cat?

SinfulNeon · Post by **SinfulNeon** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:59 am

Okay on my current engine Im looking for overall torque, I want faster acceleration versus top end which header would be better for such application a long tube header or a pacesetter header as there is someone selling a pacesetter for 70shipped, now on a long tube there is no cat to make it smog legal could one be installed or would it defeat the point and also on either application would the stock cat work or is there a better one that allows for higher flow but remain smog legal for Cali? or should I do some kind of switch out setup so that I could run a pipe in place of the cat and then when smog time roles around get under the car unbolt the small pipe section and bolt back the cat?

anomalous0 · Post by **anomalous0** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:28 am

slow down buddy.
Now, contrary to what Mr.Howell would have you believe, long tubes are better for overall torque. In fact, the longer the tube, the lower the torque peak (though it will still be up there.)

Going by your page, you already have a 2.5" exhaust. That will save you a bit of money. You can buy a 2.5" in 2.5" out high-flow cat and have it welded to the end of a long tube header, then have your exhaust cut to fit and welded to the other end (good to have a flexpipe in there somewhere too.) Since you're in cali, you'll want a resonator if you don't have one already, or some cop will pull you over for the sound and look under your hood.

I did some pricing a while back. Expect to spend $300 for a good long-tube and $100 for a high-flow, plus maybe $40 for a resonator. If you know someone who can weld for cheap or can do it yourself, you're in luck. If you don't, expect to spend just as much on labor as you did on parts.

I've heard that long tube headers are illegal in cali, but I've also heard that some testing facilities won't look too closely if you have a working cat.

A pacesetter won't get you nearly the gains, but it's $70, bolts right in to your existing system, and you can probably install it yourself. Plus if you can work some sort of heat-shield system for it, it will look stock, and may be smog legal anyways.
Your choice. Not going against the long tube, just saying it will be expensive and difficult to pull off. If I had the cash I'd get one.

teamliviD · Post by **teamliviD** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:48 am

well explained!!

SinfulNeon · Post by **SinfulNeon** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:15 am

thank you very much for your information, I will go with the long tube header route and do just what you said, ya I still have some buddies that work in the smog business so they said they would overlook everything all they said will matter to them is the read out in the end.

Edit: Okay I just got told by some other people on a different forum that a shortie header would be best for more torque and that the headman header are cali legal. http://modernperformance.com/dcx/chikarahdr.shtml

Im not saying either party is wrong but I just would like some clarification, Im leaning more towards your answer as it was much more detailed then the other party which their answer was pretty much what I just stated.

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:28 pm

SinfulNeon wrote:Okay I just got told by some other people on a different forum that a shortie header would be best for more torque and that the headman header are cali legal. http://modernperformance.com/dcx/chikarahdr.shtml

Im not saying either party is wrong but I just would like some clarification, Im leaning more towards your answer as it was much more detailed then the other party which their answer was pretty much what I just stated.

You guys are on different pages.

A long tube header does indeed produce more overall torque. A short tube header makes less torque, but it feels like it's making more, especially down in the lower rpms. My fast fab's long tube feels hella torquey.....in 2nd gear at 4500 rpm. At 2000 rpm it feels pretty lame. A short tube header will make you feel more torque in that 2000 rpm range, although you're not going to get as high of a peak torque number out of it on a dyno.

phenomeneon21 · Post by **phenomeneon21** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:41 pm

I hate the way my car feels down low with my longtube, but when you're anywhere above 3,500 RPM's, the car just screams even in 3rd and 4th gear. I'd look into MPX's midtube header so you can retain the factory cat. placement and still get a good gain.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:17 am

my car with stock headers feels great all throughout the rpm band - I really wanna see a dyno some day

Stupid funds.

although I am 1/3 the way to getting the money for a dyno

:D:D:D:D:

the lth is great for power up high, but you get robbed down low - although I have heard someone say taht you really do not LOOSE power persay throughout the powerband, it actually moves everything up, just you peak higher in the rpms and at a higher number.

phenomeneon21 · Post by **phenomeneon21** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:55 am

I probably wouldn't feel as robbed of power if I had stuck with 2.25" piping rather than upping to 2.5" piping...I don't regret it though, I like the way it sounds with the larger piping and if I ever decided to up the stakes a bit motor wise, my exhaust will be perfect...

anomalous0 · Post by **anomalous0** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:13 am

I've heard that hedman/chikara headers offer almost no gain whatsoever. If you're looking for a cheap shorty, get the magnum exhaust manifold. I just put mine on last night and I LOVE it. Definitely a bit of low end kick and faster accelleration. However, a car with a proper long tube will still have more low end than a car with a short tube. It will just feel like less in comparison with the awesome high end.