Notchy Shifter Feel

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:04 am

I will do my best to describe my "notchy shifter feel." When shifting gears, sometimes the shifter is notchy, while other times it drops into gear very smoothly. When it is notchy, the shifter makes a "notchy" sound, but is only audible in the cabin. It almost feels though as if you can feel the teeth go together though because it goes in sometimes in about 2 steps (neutral-move towards second-notch-in second) When stopped and in neutral, sometimes it will flow smoothly into first, while other times it is notchy going into first. If I put it in 1st, take it out, and put it back, it usually goes in much smoother the second time. Also very rarely if in first, it will be "locked" out of second like hitting a wall (only standstill), but if I play with the shifter it will go in fine (again sometimes notchy) While driving, It always goes in gear and has never grinded while doing this at any rpm's. Sometimes not as smooth as I want. I have booger bushings properly fitted and Mopar ATF4 freshly changed. I dont know if this is a normal feel in 2gn neons, but I know that my girlfriends mtx first gen flows into all gears very smoothly without any hesitation or sounds.

May not be relavent to the situation, but my clutch engages near the top and I have lots of "free" play near the bottom where I can shift without it being slammed to the floor. Sometimes I I shift with the pedal about an inch from the floor, it shifts better than If I push it all the way down. Like I said though, I dont think this matters because even with it all the way down, I still get smooth shifts sometimes. I know this has been a long post, but I really dont like the feel of it sometimes and needed to describe it. Car has 45300 miles now.

getcrunk88 · Post by **getcrunk88** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:15 am

i have the exact same situation with my 04 i can shift it fine if i only put the cluth in about an inch or 2 im starting to get used to it tho i was looking to get the hurst shifter i think it might solve our problems with the notchy feel

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:17 am

I have the same problem, but only after I installed the STS...

I've heard of Booger Bushings, and wonder if that will help this problem?

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:40 am

I have the same problem on my 01 R/T!!

Its driving me nuts, I cannot get into first when I am breaking coming to a stop light, or gearing down. Its like 'hitting a wall' with it. There has to be a solution for this. I hope its not my clutch going or the sign that its going...

some adivse would help!

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:57 am

I'm glad to see I'm not the only only. I hope someone has any kind of explanation to this.

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:13 pm

I'm right there with you. I want to get rid of this too.

00element10 · Post by **00element10** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:14 pm

mine did it as well, i think it's pretty normal, did it with the stock clutch, then with the centerforce...i dunno

04NeonsX · Post by **04NeonsX** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:55 pm

with my 04 you have to push the clutch to the floor especially while driving, if i dont the rpms dont come down as fast say if i only push it down half way and it is tough to put in to gear unless its to the floor. I dont know if there is any kind of sensor or what but it definetly knows when the clutch is fully engaged.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:22 pm

i loved the feel of my shifter after the installatioin of booger and jonnymopar bushings. dont know which contributed more, but for the cost it doesnt matter.

Cabbs · Post by **Cabbs** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 pm

Mine is like that too, probably normal for our tranny. It is really annoying though.

ewetho · Post by **ewetho** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:34 pm

Mine 04 is still really smooth after 44K.I have change the oil twice though. First to Valvoline ATF+4 and the Amsoil ATF (exceed ATF+4) and so far the Amsoil is best. Earlier cars they recommend something else though beside ATF.

Truth be told it has always had a bit of a notch to it, but if you line up with the gates it always goes no problem.

Normally due to shifter wear and abuse from high speed downshifting.

If you get it so it won't go in gear at a stop that probably worn Synchro to first gear, so that when you shift the point which should slide out of each other way are not any longer and just crashing into each other. Then shift to Rev or like 4th or something to slightly rotate the gears and should drop in no problem. Down shifting into 1st is real hard on the trans.

SlvrACR · Post by **SlvrACR** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:39 pm

getcrunk88 wrote:i was looking to get the hurst shifter i think it might solve our problems with the notchy feel

Wont help a bit

Vincentvh · Post by **Vincentvh** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:43 pm

Lesson one in European driving courses:

Don't ever ever ever ever ever shift back
to first gear when your still rolling to a complete
halt.
Leave it in second cuase it will give your
better control of your car and puts waaaaayyy
less stress/wear on your drivetrain engine and transmission.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:15 am

Vincentvh wrote:Lesson one in European driving courses:

Don't ever ever ever ever ever shift back
to first gear when your still rolling to a complete
halt.
Leave it in second cuase it will give your
better control of your car and puts waaaaayyy
less stress/wear on your drivetrain engine and transmission.

Exactly. If you're gonna go into 1st, you should be at a stop or worst case, just barely crawling (less than 5mph, say, if you're in a bad traffic jam for example).

Damn, I wish America had real driver's education. I strongly feel that you should be forced to learn to drive a standard unless you're physically incapable of it. Even if you insist on buying automatics for the rest of your life, you still learned.

refect · Post by **refect** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:32 am

mine does it too with my srt motor. almost feels like going through a bag of sand sometimes when putting it in first. only does it in first gear too. ive even had this wall you speak of when going into the next gear, but it was for my 4th gear. that usually happens when i run the car really hard for a long period of time. like at the track or somethin. after a day or so of it sitting it seems goes away. also i usually put it in first when im rolling at like 5mph or less because if i start in 2nd; around then is too low of rpm and the car goes all crazy feeling like it is going to stall while it builds back up the rpms.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:48 am

Damn, I wish America had real driver's education. I strongly feel that you should be forced to learn to drive a standard unless you're physically incapable of it. Even if you insist on buying automatics for the rest of your life, you still learned.

I believe that the ATM perpetuates the basic lack of thinking that is occuring in the "American" population these days. Now that people don't have to focus on their driving they can focus on their phone calls, or breakfast, or ... which = more accidents, lack of curteousy, and just in general poor driving (IMHO). You can have phone calls while driving stick, but I find it difficult enough that I don't wish to do it while I'm driving or that it is impossible to do at times. just my $.02

As for the notchyness of the shift, I've only seen two sollutions (maybe?) that seem to address this problem... new fluid and the booger bushings... is this correct?[/quote]

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:35 pm

I never shift into first while rolling. One thing I noticed is that when it is hotter outside, it shifts a little better. Could just be me though or the car acting better. Just something we have to live with. Only thing I dont understand is why my friends first gen mtx doesnt have any problems like this. Same tranny. It might be the tranny fluid since they changed to atf4 on our 03 ups. I might try some amsoil mtx fluid in the future and see what it does.

Vincentvh · Post by **Vincentvh** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:54 pm

Damn, I wish America had real driver's education. I strongly feel that you should be forced to learn to drive a standard unless you're physically incapable of it. Even if you insist on buying automatics for the rest of your life, you still learned.

Yep that's the way it goes overhere.

back on topic:

I read you switched to ATF4 isnt that automatic transmission
fluid to begin with? If so try to switch it back to Mt fluid.
Further have your clutchpedal/cable adjusted to correct
spec that could be it as well.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:12 pm

My 03' r/t became very notchy feeling. The syncros when on it. Chrysler was going to replace the trans under warrenty, but the rt/acr trans is on a long backorder from NVG, so I never got it before it was wrecked.

My old 2000 felt notchy too. replaced the clutch and it went back to normal. I did this on my '03 too but it didn't help.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:13 pm

it wasnt him that put atf+4 in it. dodge made the switch so that all transmissions, manual or automatic, came with atf=4 from the factory.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:14 pm

Vincentvh wrote: I read you switched to ATF4 isnt that automatic transmission
fluid to begin with? If so try to switch it back to Mt fluid.
Further have your clutchpedal/cable adjusted to correct
spec that could be it as well.

ATF+4 is reccomended by New Venture Gear (the company that make the trans.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:19 pm

i dont know if i would go that far. but i would say that the use of atf+4 has been tested for use in the NVT-350 and NVT-850 and it has met reliability tests.

i believe it was done as a cost reduction. having one fluid is cheaper than having two fluids.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:21 pm

It explicilty says in the repair manual to use ONLY ATF+4. Using anything other can even void your warrenty.

(so Im told)

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:27 pm

then that means that all of the NVT-350's in the previous years would get effed up by using anything other than ATF+4.

i am currently using Redline MTL. Its been in for a little while now. no problems, smoother than the atf was

SlvrACR · Post by **SlvrACR** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:31 pm

03blackrt wrote:It explicilty says in the repair manual to use ONLY ATF+4. Using anything other can even void your warrenty. (so Im told)

Only if it came with it. My 01 ACR had syncromesh in it and I replaced it with Amsoil Syncromesh fluid. It quieted down the trans a bit but thats about it.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:31 pm

I belive its a long term durability reason.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:37 pm

i guess we will find out. i have no plans on changing the trans fluid again. i am planning on running the car into the ground before i buy a truck.

but think about this.
a company buys 5000 gallons a year of atf at $1.50 a gallon. they also buy 5000 gallons a year of mtf at $1.50 a gallon. they cut out the mtf and double their atf order to 10000 a year, now it costs them $1.40 a gallon.

costs before: $7500 for atf and $7500 for mtf = 15000

costs after: $14000 for atf

savings: $1000 a year

now i bet it would be a greater cost reduction, but my example was just that, an example.

SlvrACR · Post by **SlvrACR** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:21 pm

Well mine come with that from the factory and I am not gonna change it now. My trans runs smooth and quiet so no need to change.

Vincentvh · Post by **Vincentvh** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:00 pm

it wasnt him that put atf+4 in it. dodge made the switch so that all transmissions, manual or automatic, came with atf=4 from the factory.

I stand corrected.

BTW I read some strange things abt transmissions and oil, Saab used regular engine-oil on there Saab 99 Turbo in the 70's......
Needless to say they had a lot of warranty claims.....

Other thing came to mind: TS do you drive with your foot on the clutchpedal?
Even the slightest weight on that pedal makes your clutch slip a little causing excessive/faster wear on the clutch (lesson nr2 in drivingschool overhere).
You might not even notice doing it, but if you start paying attention to it, it could be.
Lesson nr 3: when done shifting take your hand of the gearknob (that wear thing again).

Enough with the ranting, have your clutch checked especially the pressure plate, those things can go dodgy for no apparent reason.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:37 pm

Vincentvh wrote:BTW I read some strange things abt transmissions and oil, Saab used regular engine-oil on there Saab 99 Turbo in the 70's......
Needless to say they had a lot of warranty claims.....

If they had alot of warranty claims, it wasn't the fault of the oil, unless the transmission wasn't designed for it. Chrysler, between 1987 and 1993 used regular 5W-30 in all their FWD manual transmissions (A520, A523, A543, A555, A568) and those things were EXTREMELY reliable and solid. I had a A520 with 208k merciless miles and it still shifted smooth and drove great.

I'm about to hit 70k on my Neon and I've been debating trying another transmission fluid.