Notchy Shifter Feel

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:43 pm

my old shadow went through some hell in the time i had it, and it didn't have a problem.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:33 pm

Only thing I hope for is that it's not the syncros going out. I really dont want to have my transmission rebuilded, especially the 3.94 since they are harder to come by.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:35 pm

TRANSMISSION FLUID

Mopart ATF+4 (Automatic Transmission Fluid) is
required in both the 41TE automatic and T350/T850
manual transaxles. Neon SRT-4 Models equipped
with the T850 manual transaxle also require
the addition of 0.12L (4 oz.) of Mopart Limited
Slip Additive (P/N 04318060AB). Substitute fluids
can induce torque converter clutch shudder, or premature
failure of internal transaxle components.

Mopart ATF+4 (Automatic Transmission Fluid)
when new is red in color. The ATF is dyed red so it
can be identified from other fluids used in the vehicle
such as engine oil or antifreeze. The red color is not
permanent and is not an indicator of fluid condition.
As the vehicle is driven, the ATF will begin to look
darker in color and may eventually become brown.
This is normal. A dark brown/black fluid accompanied
with a burnt odor and/or deterioration in shift
quality may indicate fluid deterioration or transmission
component failure.

FLUID ADDITIVES

DaimlerChrysler strongly recommends against the
addition of any fluids to the transmission, other than
those automatic transmission fluids listed above.
Exceptions to this policy are the use of special dyes
to aid in detecting fluid leaks.
Various “special” additives and supplements exist
that claim to improve shift feel and/or quality. These
additives and others also claim to improve converter
clutch operation and inhibit overheating, oxidation,
varnish, and sludge. These claims have not been supported
to the satisfaction of DaimlerChrysler and
these additives must not be used. The use of transmission
“sealers” should also be avoided, since they
may adversely affect the integrity of transmission
seals.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:36 pm

ehh, its probably not as bad as you think.

its also probably not as bad as you think to do the trans. you could get a first gen trans and put your bellhousing on it, or get a 3.55 and put your final drive in it, i think thats possible.

edit: in response to that quote, i wont believe that a manual transmission requires the ATF+4 until my trans blows up. and im going to doubt that will happen.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:40 pm

LUBRICANT/ADDITIVES
T350 transaxles use Mopart ATF+4 (Automatic
Transmission Fluid—Type 9602).Hypoid gear lube
or engine oil should not be used in this transaxle.
Hard shifting effort, bearing, gear, and/or synchronizer
failure may occur if incorrect fluid is used.
The addition of any fluids to the transaxle, other than
the fluid listed above, is not recommended. An exception
to this policy is the use of special dyes to aid in detecting
fluid leaks. The use of transmission sealers should
be avoided, since they may adversely affect seals.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:45 pm

yes a hypoid gear lube or engine oil should not be used. but a fluid for a manual trans, such as Redline MTL, AMSOIL MTF and a few others are not hypoid gear lubes.

a hypoid gear lube is one that you would put in the front/rear differential of a vehicle. and a hypoid gear lube should only be used in manual transmissions that call for hypoid gear oil.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:55 pm

The thing is tho that ATF transfers/dissapates heat better than standard gear lube.

Also, fixing syncros and gears are not easy on the T350HD (2001- later). The output shaft (which cointains 1st and 2nd syncros) is serviced as a unit, unlike the T350 (pre-2001). IIRC

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:58 pm

then i guess when my trans goes ill dump it for a 3.94 trans.

but im doubting that i will need to do anything to it.

and by saying that the NVT-350HD is 2001 and later means that it is OK to use a manual trans lube because in 2001 and (i think) a little bit of 2002 use Mopar manual trans fluid.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:03 am

wouldn't be the first time chry-co changed something mid-stream for reliability reasons (I think the words neon and head gasket may ring a bell)

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:06 am

yes that is true, but why would they make a change when they just made a change when they could have done it then

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:09 am

because they probley rushed it, it was for a Neon after all

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:25 pm

Here's what my research has yeilded about the ATF+4...

It is less corrosive on the aluminum case.

The NVG T350 has fibre faces on the synchros which is why they use ATF+4 in the manual trans. If you use gear oil you will burn out the synchros quickly. ??? I don't know if this is true.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:29 pm

what kind of synchros were used in the 2001 trans?

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:31 pm

These claims have not been supported
to the satisfaction of DaimlerChrysler

picky sum bishs aren't they...lol j/k

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:46 pm

All forward ratios are synchronized. High capacity dual-cone brass synchronizers assure easy shift effort in first and second gears. On third, fourth and fifth gears, the single-cone synchronizers are made of a paper friction material. This material offers more durability and clash-resistance than brass. Third, fourth and fifth gear synchronizers are located on the input shaft. This provides low shift effort because of low rotating inertia that has be either accelerated or decelerated to complete a shift. In addition, a reverse brake mechanism is included to minimize reverse engagement clash.

Allpar's 2.0 Transaxle page

opyr8yr · Post by **opyr8yr** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:14 pm

Without going too off topic, does anyone know the deal with clutches on neons in relation to the car's warranty? Is it fully covered as part of the drivetrain? I would REALLY like a new one for free before my warranty is up...

Post by **jonnymopar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:30 pm

opyr8yr wrote:Without going too off topic, does anyone know the deal with clutches on neons in relation to the car's warranty? Is it fully covered as part of the drivetrain? I would REALLY like a new one for free before my warranty is up...

When my differential ate itself, I got a new clutch with it. I was actually surprised because I was almost sure that wasn't a warranty item. Also, I was still within the 3/36 warranty. I don't know if they'd be so cool about it coming up to the end of a 7/70.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:16 pm

03blackrt wrote:
All forward ratios are synchronized. High capacity dual-cone brass synchronizers assure easy shift effort in first and second gears. On third, fourth and fifth gears, the single-cone synchronizers are made of a paper friction material. This material offers more durability and clash-resistance than brass. Third, fourth and fifth gear synchronizers are located on the input shaft. This provides low shift effort because of low rotating inertia that has be either accelerated or decelerated to complete a shift. In addition, a reverse brake mechanism is included to minimize reverse engagement clash.
Allpar's 2.0 Transaxle page

therefore a 2001 trans (mtf spec'd) and a 2004 trans (atf spec'd) are the same,

thus one should be able to use an mtf in a an NV-T350 that is spec'd for atf from the factory with no problems

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:25 pm

so when I need to change my head gasket I'll go with a '95 one... :p

...it came first, so it must be better (j/k...)

I'll be staying with ATF+4, others can run whatever they please.

EDIT: 2001's are still HD's. 2000 built Feb 2000 and earlyier are non-HD's

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:29 am

Something to check for. I noticed that when at a stop, if you wiggle the shifter while in neutral left and right, more than half the time it will slide into first much easier. Go out and see if this does anything for you. I'm starting to think this is an issue with our cables or something on the forks??? on the transmission (where the boogers are located) not moving all the way right, causing it to go rough into gear. When you move the shifter in neutral it might "help" it get loose. Again this is only an idea.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:42 am

You can try adjusting the crossover cable. That caused a little rough sifhting on my old 2000 and adjusting it helped a little (but it still needed a clutch). Heres how...

Adjust crossover cable as follows:

(a) Loosen adjusting screw on crossover cable at
shifter (Fig. 99).
(b) The gearshift mechanism and transaxle
crossover lever are spring-loaded and self-centering.
Alignment pins used in the past are not
required anymore.
Allow gearshift mechanism and
transaxle crossover lever to relax in their neutral
positions. To ensure the gearshift lever is in the
proper position, place the shifter in 3rd or 4th gear
if necessary. Torque adjustment screw to 8 N·m (70
in. lbs.). Care must be taken to avoid moving the
shift mechanism off-center during screw tightening.

The spring loaded crossover shaft is something found on the T350-HD's not on the older T-350's.

EDIT: Chrysler doesn't cover clutches under any warrenty.

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:27 am

Well I have knotice that too. I have difficult going through my gears while doing an aggressive acceleration. It feels as if I cannot push it in at all. I have to let the RPM's come down and then it will slide in alright, but if not I can't even force it in. Its bothering me tremdously. I am pushing the clutch to the floor. I am even double cluthing to see if its the syncro but that shouldnt be a problem with our transmission. I am running out of idea's. I am going to take it into the dealership on Monday and see what a Tech says... hopefully I am not going to need to replace the cutch...

Post by **racer12306** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:26 am

03blackrt wrote:
EDIT: Chrysler doesn't cover clutches under any warrenty.

yeah, its only like 1 year or 12000 miles. which is about the standard for stuff so that the problem isnt a manufacturer defect. its a wear item so they cant put a warranty on it.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:52 pm

Thats weird. My 04 warrenty booklet said the clutch is excluded from any warrenty. But my 02 warrenty booklet says that the ctutch disc is 1yr 12,000. Must of changed sometime??? I don't know.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:19 pm

BigDutch wrote: ...I am even double cluthing to see if its the syncro but that shouldnt be a problem with our transmission. ...

I too have tried double clutching to see if it's the syncros, but even when double clutching, it goes in rough sometimes. I'm going to try adjusting my crossover cable sometime and see if it helps. I do not have trouble going into gear while driving hard.

Yesterday I did not let it go completely into 2nd because it was "rough" and it poped back out, loudly. Just poping though like yanking the cable

and no grinding. Did not like it though.

So far it looks like no one has a definite answer to this problem.

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:46 pm

Yeah Mine popped back out tonight when i put it into second gear. but it grinded a little. I am hoping that it has something to do with the shifter linkage or something. I dont want to replace the clutch plate or anything like that cause its so pricy!

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:07 am

I have the same problem in my SRT-4...
This could be the problem>?

Check this out, and click the link on the link.

http://modernperformance.com/dcx/shiftselector.shtml

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:05 pm

It's a possibility, but I read that a broken one results in being stuck in gear. Can someone explain the shifter linkage a lil deeper.

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:08 pm

I had someone shift my car while it was off so i could look at the bushings... The are in good cindition but it seems a little odd on the play of them for me. You can see the linkage move inside the bushing before the lever moves. There is a bit of play with the bushings. The shift selector I need someone to tell me where to locate that so that I might be able to inspect that to see if that has been broken or damaged.

Still going to the dealership tomorrow

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:47 pm

I found this line, after continuing with the link above:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336010

It shows where it's at, but seems too hard to get to just to check it out.