Notchy Shifter Feel

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:22 am

Well, That is something that seems quite time consuming and complicated. I am hoping that is something that is covered by my warrenty.

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:45 am

Well I went to the dealer and they said I need a new clutch. WONDERFUL!

the tech said if it was the syncro your shifer would be thrown out of gear when you pressed the gas pedal.

Its not the shifter selector seeing as it will go into gear.

The drive input shaft is still spinning when the clutch is depressed as you can feel it in the shifter.

With all that said, I now need to find a good but inexpencive clutch to get it installed. I called the Canadian Tire and they gave me a quote for a Dynapack Clutch. Anyone know whether they are good or not? Or anyone know of a company that makes a good clutch for a good price?

Thanks in advance

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:26 pm

The Chrysler PT Cruiser clutch is good. A little bit beefier than stock. I can't remember what I paid for mine, but it was around $25-$50 more than a standard neon clutch. Not bad price, buying from chrysler was the cheapest. Aftermarket ones were alot more IIRC.

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:20 pm

I just got prices and stuff from a few places. Chrysler was the most expensive. The use the same clutch for the 2.0l and the 2.4l so I am told by the dealer. So its the same clutch in the PT that is in the SRT-4 etc...

I am getting a new Exedy OEM replacement clutch for 200 cheaper than dealer value!

Getting it done friday for 800 taxes in. 400 cheaper than dealer install.

gotta love the little guy shops

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:21 pm

no, the n/a PT clutches are stronger than the n/a neon clutch. im sure the PT GT and the SRT use the same clutch though, which you cant use in stock form in your car. too big diametrically.

many people use the PT clutches in their neons, also if they were the same they would cost the same.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:58 pm

Weird that the aftermarket clutch was more, it wasn't for me. I think I paid either $250 or $350 for the clutch and $25-$35 for the throwout bearing from chrysler

Thunderstruck · Post by **Thunderstruck** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:47 am

If you have a hard time shifting into first at a stop t ain't your synchros.

Synchros are designed to match gear speed to engine speed so that they smothly engage. If your at a stop the synchro does not come into play.

As for the type of lube run in a trans, it depends on a couple of factors. One factor is synchro material compatibility. Some lubes are detrimental to certain types of synchros causing them to fall apart. Another factor is cynchro design, an example the Chrysler A833 4 speed isn't happy with most synthetic lubes, they are too slippery for the synchro causing them to not do their jobs.

what really drives the choice of ATF fluid in a manual trans is two things,easier shifting, ATF is thinner than gear oil or even engine oil and the second factor is CAFE requirements. Thinner ATF fluid in a manual trans helps aveage fuel economy.

Simple as that.

Steve

Post by **jonnymopar** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:30 pm

Thunderstruck wrote:Synchros are designed to match gear speed to engine speed so that they smothly engage. If your at a stop the synchro does not come into play.

No, your clutch matches gear speed to engine speed. Think about it. Synchros match input shaft speed to internal gear speed. So they most certainly can come into play at a stop.

If you're in neutral at a dead stop with the engine idling and the clutch out, your input shaft is spinning, right? Put your clutch in and quickly try to shift into 1st. It doesn't let it go into 1st for a moment. That's the synchro slowing down the input shaft so that the gears mesh. On the other hand, as your letting the clutch out, that is what matches your gear speed to engine speed.

Same scenario, you're stopped in neutral with the clutch out. If you push the shifter firmly against 1st gear without stepping on the clutch, the car will very slowly start to crawl forward, yet it will not grind. Why? Synchros.

I do agree that it's probably not your synchros though. Unless you're trying to jam it into 1st really fast after you step on the clutch, the input shaft has enough time to slow down where the synchros wouldn't be needed.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:29 am

I forgot to mention that it does everything described with the car OFF. This could possibly rule out a lot of things such as syncros, clutch,etc since nothing is moving when the car is off. The notchyness is still there and everything described in my very first post in this thread. Can anyone who has this problem go out sometime and confirm the same issues with the car off.

03neonRT · Post by **03neonRT** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:25 pm

I can confirm, my R/T does the exact same things with the car on or off...

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:05 pm

So does Mine... but I still need a new clutch...

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:16 pm

Well I got my car back from the shop... New clutch - I can shit again!

The knotchy-ness is still there. I think that it has to do with the bushings having play at the trans and at the shifter. I noticed that there was about a 1/8" travel in the bushing before it moved the shift selector. I think that a set of booger's will fix this or a set of solid ones might too... but we'll see

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:44 pm

I might order the johny mopar bushings (right person?) for the shifter base. I wish someone knew what this problem could be. I bet it has to do with the cables and play somewhere like BigDutch stated.

03neonRT · Post by **03neonRT** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:57 pm

I have a STS, Booger Bushings, and JM Cradle Bushings and I still get the problems...

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:26 am

I am not sure if I understand your alls problem, but let me just tell you what I think it is that I have:

When shifting, it does not just glide smooth like butter into gear - it acts like it has to be forced in - usually feels like it pops twice going into gear - sometimes it is like neutral even pops... other times it is just smooth with little resistance. Other times it is like it will not GO into gear. Usually, third is the worst gear, and I miss it more than I should miss it. But I will admit, sometimes I am shifting faster than I am pushing in the clutch at these times, and sometimes I even push the clutch in and let it out to soon.

Now, I have owned 4 other mtx cars in my life and this car feels no different than any other mtx I have driven... notchy and sloppy. Of course, those three other cars were an 87 nissan p/u, 92 Suzuki Samurai, and a 92 Mazda B2200 p/u.

BigDutch · Post by **BigDutch** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:09 pm

I couldnt have discribed it better. That is what it feels in my car to the 't'

I had an 89 daytona and it was nothing like that, although it was a cable clutch and a hell of a lot older, but never did I feel the double knotch feel. It is something that I am sure I will get used to over time

Thunderstruck · Post by **Thunderstruck** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:33 am

jonnymopar wrote:
Thunderstruck wrote:Synchros are designed to match gear speed to engine speed so that they smothly engage. If your at a stop the synchro does not come into play.
No, your clutch matches gear speed to engine speed. Think about it. Synchros match input shaft speed to internal gear speed. So they most certainly can come into play at a stop.

If you're in neutral at a dead stop with the engine idling and the clutch out, your input shaft is spinning, right? Put your clutch in and quickly try to shift into 1st. It doesn't let it go into 1st for a moment. That's the synchro slowing down the input shaft so that the gears mesh. On the other hand, as your letting the clutch out, that is what matches your gear speed to engine speed.

Same scenario, you're stopped in neutral with the clutch out. If you push the shifter firmly against 1st gear without stepping on the clutch, the car will very slowly start to crawl forward, yet it will not grind. Why? Synchros.

I do agree that it's probably not your synchros though. Unless you're trying to jam it into 1st really fast after you step on the clutch, the input shaft has enough time to slow down where the synchros wouldn't be needed.

Wow, just wow.

Synchros match gear speeds, which is exactly why you can upshift without using the clutch, or downshift for that matter. Of course doing that you need to help match speeds with your right foot.

The clutch does NOTHING more than release the connection between the engine and the transmission, taking the load off the gears so the synchros can do thier jobs easier.

Have you ever actually been inside a manual trans? I have, about 15 over the years. Have you ever converted an automatic car to stick? I have. Have you ever actually done yourown clutch jobs? Again, I have. Have you ever adjusted clutch linkages, shifter linkages, or rebuilt a shifter? I have.

Clutch matches gears speeds indeed.

Steve

Post by **jonnymopar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:42 pm

Thunderstruck wrote:Synchros match gear speeds, which is exactly why you can upshift without using the clutch, or downshift for that matter. Of course doing that you need to help match speeds with your right foot.

Thunderstruck wrote:Synchros are designed to match gear speed to engine speed so that they smothly engage. If your at a stop the synchro does not come into play.

Way to say two different things. Do the synchros match gear speeds to eachother or match gear speeds to engine speeds?? Obviously we all know that they match gear speeds to eachother. That was my only correction. Nothing to do with engine speed.

Thunderstruck wrote:The clutch does NOTHING more than release the connection between the engine and the transmission, taking the load off the gears so the synchros can do thier jobs easier.

Exactly... and when the clutch is pressed, what is the engine doing to the transmission? Nothing. Engine is connected to the transmission by the clutch only. Not the synchros.

Thunderstruck wrote:Have you ever actually been inside a manual trans? I have, about 15 over the years. Have you ever converted an automatic car to stick? I have. Have you ever actually done yourown clutch jobs? Again, I have. Have you ever adjusted clutch linkages, shifter linkages, or rebuilt a shifter? I have.

Oh wooowwww, no I've never done AANNNYY of that stuff. Oh wait, yes I have. Everything mentioned above. No, I haven't been inside 15 of them, but yes I have been inside a manual transmission. Converting an auto car to stick?? I guess you're too lazy to read my project thread. Clutch jobs? About a half dozen so far. Linkages?? Omni's were usually fun. Ditto for almost every 80's Volkswagen that I've had my hands on. Rebuilding shifters? How about fabricating your own short throws?

Get over yourself.

Aikidoka · Post by **Aikidoka** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:54 pm

Count me in as another with the shifter issues. Any of those stating they were going to try the bushings have it done already? This drives me nuts in rush hour traffic when it occurs.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:57 pm

It does it even with Booger Bushings. 3 days ago, I got into a friends base 5 speed Cobalt to test out the shifter. I was surprised to find out how sloppy it is for such a new car, and it prety much has the same notchyness going into gear. I guess thats what you get when you buy a econobox. My parents 06 2.0T Passat goes into gear like butter each and every time.

yellowpatrol · Post by **yellowpatrol** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:20 pm

Well add me to the bandwagon.

Aikidoka · Post by **Aikidoka** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:11 pm

danman132x wrote:It does it even with Booger Bushings.

That sucks. There are times when it almost feels like I'm not going to get it into first.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:17 pm

Mines not that bad. Your not trying to go into 1st at speeds over 5 mph are you?

Aikidoka · Post by **Aikidoka** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:37 pm

danman132x wrote:Mines not that bad. Your not trying to go into 1st at speeds over 5 mph are you?

This is getting into first at a dead stop.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:03 pm

try going into second first and then into first. it should help.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:55 pm

You need to come closer to the RPM of the gear you are trying to go into to get that smooth shift. If you're trying to get into first from a roll to downshift, gently (I mean it) put pressure on the synchros, and it will slide in when it's ready. Slamming it into the next gear has already cost me a transmission, so don't follow my lead.

Aikidoka · Post by **Aikidoka** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:24 am

racer12306 wrote:try going into second first and then into first. it should help.

Doesn't help much. 2nd also has the notchy issue. The only gears I never seem to feel it in are 3rd-5th. I tried the jiggle the shifter left and right and that didn't seem to help much either. Yet sometimes the shifter is just fine.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:50 am

American cars suck when it comes to shifters. All the Hondas I drove shift sooooo nice.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:02 pm

Well I received my JonnyMopar cradle bushings, and I have to say that I feel a definate improvement. When I changed the bushings out, I noticed that one of my stock bushings wasn't mounted right. In the picture below, you can see that the right bushing is missing the small silver metal piece to stop the screw. Instead the factory (or previous owner) put another identical gold colored screw below to be the "stop" for the upper screw.

So far it feels much better, and goes in gear better, but I only drove it for about 10 minutes to check out the feel. I will have a better review about my shifting in a few days.

After pic:

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:43 pm

thanks for the pics! let ME know after you get comfortable with it if it has done a significant difference.