MTX fluid

OB · Post by OB » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:28 am

Hey all, I did a quick search and found some info, but I wanted to go ahead and discuss the alternative fluids for the MTX in a new thread in case there is updated info. I know the manufacturer calls for ATF+4, but what other gear oils will work in its place? I've heard that some aftermarket fluids make for smoother shifts and also last longer under hard driving conditions and racing. What are the options? What viscosity? what have you guys tried and had success with?

sneakers O'toole · Post by **sneakers O'toole** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:10 pm

I'm using the royal purple syncromax MTX fluid. I get some chatter on cold mornings before the car warms up, but after its warm its fine. seemed like an overall smoother feel in the tranny too.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:07 pm

I am currently using Redline MTL, its a synthetic 75w-85 manual transmission fluid. I like it. It seems smoother than the ATF+4 did.

Other options include:
Royal Purple Synchromax (synthetic)
AMSOIL MTF (synthetic)
Pennzoil Synchromesh (conventional)
Specialty Formulations MTFGlide (synthetic)
Specialty Formulations SynchroGlide (synthetic)
Mopar MS9417 fluid

Here is a thread on BITOG that I had back in August about this exact topic: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ ... Post522657

and another about whether to pick AMSOIL MTF or Redline MTL: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ ... Post731642

You can also use one of the many ATF's out there that claim to be appropriate for ATF+4 applications, such as:

Redline C+
AMSOIL Universal ATF
Valvoline ATF+4
Royal Purple (i believe they have one, can't remember the name)
Mopar ATF+4

But then I believe that you can use nearly any automatic trans fluid out there, and the reason that DCx says ATF+4 is because that's what they normally stock.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:09 am

I would assume that its wise to stick with the same viscocity as the stock ATF? Or are they generally all the same? thanks racer, i had a feeling you'd bring the info on this one

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:14 am

personally i don't think the viscosity will have that much of an impact on it. i would think as long as you don't go too thick, like anything that is much thicker than one of the major MTF's then you will be safe.

now if you dumped something with a hot viscosity of >13 cSt then you might be asking for trouble. atf is in the area of 8cSt hot. 40wt motor oil is >13cSt when hot.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:19 am

Whats the viscosity of standard mopar atf anyhow? The redline stuff looks pretty good. I had that in mind, as well as the motul synthetic gear oil (75/80 I think).

oh and just for reference, whats the procedure when changing the tranny fluid on our cars? lift car, drain, fill till it spills, tighten it back up? Ive never changed the tranny fluid on a car, just on diesels at work. thanks

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:21 am

there is a drain plug and a fill plug. very easy to do.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:23 am

I know, i was just curious as to how much fluid it took.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:25 am

2.4-2.7 L (2.5-2.8 Qrts)

or 3/16 inch from the bottom of the transaxle
fill hole (vehicle must be level when checking).

When I canged mine I snaked a rubber hose down to trans and filled it from above the engine bay.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:33 am

after 10k miles ATF+4 is about 6 - 7 cSt hot

the mopar manual trans fluid is about 9cSt hot

thats the best i could find on BITOG

edit: forgot about the filling, when i switched over to MTL i ran 5000 miles with Pennzoil Synchromesh to flush out all the ATF that is in there. i had talked to an AMSOIL rep about this and they said to drive the car for a while to get it hot and then drain it, and no flushing would be needed.

if you have access to a lift you can pick it up and take off the dr tire and use a long flex funnel to fill it.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:40 am

I have some tubing I could probably use to fill it. So i'd be safe to go exactly 2.5-2.8 qts initially? or should I underfill it a bit and check it before calling it a day? I dont want to make a mistake and damage the tranny. Ill look it up in the FSM tomorrow and see whats what. thanks again guys

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:41 am

technically what Ryan said is right, but i would be willing to bet that >90% of all service techs fill it till it dribbles out and then calls it a day.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:19 am

^yeah thats the first thing that came to my mind, but its better to do things by the book, even if it means raising and lowering the car a few times to get it right. Im curious to see what the FSM has to say about it.

oh, and will i have to order the redline (or equivalent) fluid or are there usually local dealers that carry the upperclass aftermarket stuff? im checkin into it online right now.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:22 am

probably gotta get it online.

www.summitracing.com has Redline MTL
www.amsoil.com has AMSOIL MTF
check www.royalpurple.com for locations of where to get that
a dealer might be able to get you the mopar stuff, but its $$$
www.specialtyformulations.com for their fluids if you go with them
Autozone has Pennzoil Synchromesh

my FSM says that the fluid should be 3/16" from the bottom of the fill hole with the car on a level surface. im guessing Ryan pulled his info right from it.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:43 am

ok great, I figured that

thanks frank

oh btw, how long have you been running the redline mtl?

davidalindsey · Post by **davidalindsey** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:23 am

Mopar ATF+4 Trans fluid is available at Wallmart for $4.42 a quart.
I am going to put in the Royal Purple Synchromax tomorrow that I bought from Pep-Boys for $9.98 a quart.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:27 am

ive had the redline in for about 5000 miles. for the 5000 miles before that i had pennzoil synchromesh as my flushing fluid.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:34 am

just ordered up the redline. I figure that since my car has such low mileage I probably dont need to worry about flushing it. what do u think racer?

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:40 am

i did the flush to make sure i get all the atf out of there, no other reason than that. a manual trans doesnt really build up gunk that wont flow out the drain plug.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:04 pm

OB wrote:I have some tubing I could probably use to fill it. So i'd be safe to go exactly 2.5-2.8 qts initially? or should I underfill it a bit and check it before calling it a day? I dont want to make a mistake and damage the tranny. Ill look it up in the FSM tomorrow and see whats what. thanks again guys

I flled it till it dribbed out with the drivers side jacked up (cause its easiest to do with the drivers wheels off.

Heres from the FSM...

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:18 pm

they must have changed the drain plug a little. mine needs an allen wrench. 10mm maybe?

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:01 pm

To throw a wrench in the works. My early 2000 MTX doesn't use fluid. It uses gear lube, and it's supposedly good for the life of the car. Any comments? I feel like the tranny isn't shifting as smooth as it used to...

Post by **jonnymopar** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:10 pm

racer12306 wrote:technically what Ryan said is right, but i would be willing to bet that >90% of all service techs fill it till it dribbles out and then calls it a day.

Nothing wrong with that. The FSM says "within 3/16" of the hole, as in 3/16" or less. All my 5-speeds were filled like that and even with huge mileage on them, no problems filling that way.

Changing the trans fluid is something that I've thought about lately because I'm only 500 miles shy of 70,000. Good info so far. I wish I had the money to blow to just buy and measure the viscosity of all these different oils. If I had all the samples, it would be pretty damn easy considering I work for these guys: www.brookfieldengineering.com .

Post by **racer12306** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:53 pm

quicksilvr wrote:To throw a wrench in the works. My early 2000 MTX doesn't use fluid. It uses gear lube, and it's supposedly good for the life of the car. Any comments? I feel like the tranny isn't shifting as smooth as it used to...

dont know if you should be using gear lube, such as that found in the front/rear differential of vehicles.

sneakers O'toole · Post by **sneakers O'toole** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:57 pm

racer12306 wrote:they must have changed the drain plug a little. mine needs an allen wrench. 10mm maybe?

i have the same year as you and mine is 8mm allen.

OB · Post by OB » Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:36 am

The Redline MTL came in today! Summit pwns, I just ordered it like 2 nights ago. Maybe ill throw down a how-to when I get around to changing it.

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:38 am

yeah, summit is pretty fast. i think they have a few warehouses throughout the country so even though you order through the Ohio headquarters you get your shipment in only a couple days.

jegs is the same way.

but $10 handling fee FTL

OB · Post by OB » Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:43 am

agreed, but it is what it is, I guess. oh well, I shouldnt have to worry about changing it for a LONG time. thanks again for the help frank, I appreciate it. Ill let u know how it goes and hopefully I can snap some pics and throw together a how to, so the next people with these questions can check it out.

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:50 am

go for it.

ive been interested in creating one for that but i dont want to touch the cam when my hands are oily

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:27 am

racer12306 wrote:
quicksilvr wrote:To throw a wrench in the works. My early 2000 MTX doesn't use fluid. It uses gear lube, and it's supposedly good for the life of the car. Any comments? I feel like the tranny isn't shifting as smooth as it used to...
dont know if you should be using gear lube, such as that found in the front/rear differential of vehicles.

Well....hm. What else is there? I guess I could just leave it alone and hope it lasts for the life of the car....