Getting her back on the road!

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:40 pm

So finally after damn near laying in storage for 2 years, I'm bring'n ol SXTurbo out

It was just frustrating when the SRT turbo falls on its face around 4500-5000. Watching boost fall from 8-5 , or less in high RPM's. Then the car couldn't even hold that and the clutch started silpping. ...Then I bought a house and I was no longer rich, haha.

But today I finally made some orders.

95 Flywheel
Stage 3 Spec clutch / pressure plate
AEM Wideband
Kinetic Wastegate (screw that little 4psi gate!)

This should get me tuned up to 8-10 psi safely, hold solid, and put every last bit of it to the ground. Should make for a fun summer.

Next year the major build will happen.

I'll keep everybody posted on how well the Spec does, and how good the kinetics WGA is.

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:08 pm

Woah you didnt have a wideband this whole time? Thats pretty crazy, good luck with 8-10 psi with the stock computer, at 8 psi my ecu would pull timing at random times and it was quite annoying. Also, I have a spec stage 4 that I have been wanting to install, let me know how that goes.

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:17 pm

I just bought a Kinetic WGA as well. I believe it comes with a 14 lb spring. So... not sure how you're planning on getting 8-10 psi out of a 14 lb spring.

I guess you could loosen it up to the point where it doesn't hold the WG shut all the way, but then you would be bleeding boost all the time and it probably wouldn't want to spool up very fast.

I dunno. Maybe it will work. I don't have mine yet, so we'll see.

jprince · Post by **jprince** » Tue May 15, 2007 9:12 pm

why dont u just get a manual boost controller.. insted of the waste gate, and just slowly turn up ur boost
________
VAPIR ONE

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:29 pm

jprince wrote:why dont u just get a manual boost controller.. insted of the waste gate, and just slowly turn up ur boost

Because the SRT uses a 4lb spring. Even if you can get it to jump to 10, it falls back to around 5....sometimes more, or less. Its a lousy WGA.

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:34 pm

jprince wrote:why dont u just get a manual boost controller.. insted of the waste gate, and just slowly turn up ur boost

A manual boost controller and a waste gate are to be used in conjunction, not separately. Heres some reading for you on how a wastegate works along with a manual boost controller.

Wastegate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate

Boost Controller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_controller

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:36 pm

anybody know what the Stage 2 gate is? gotta be more than 4lb. If the Kinetics doesn't work i'll ship it back for the stage 2.

either way, gotta get a internal gate thats gonna work.

Kevin_GP wrote:Woah you didnt have a wideband this whole time? Thats pretty crazy, good luck with 8-10 psi with the stock computer, at 8 psi my ecu would pull timing at random times and it was quite annoying. Also, I have a spec stage 4 that I have been wanting to install, let me know how that goes.

Oh, and to answer that...she was tuned on the dyno at 5psi. a/f was doing great

Now that i'm going to toy a bit with it i need the wideband to see the changes.

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:33 am

weber wrote:anybody know what the Stage 2 gate is? gotta be more than 4lb. If the Kinetics doesn't work i'll ship it back for the stage 2.

either way, gotta get a internal gate thats gonna work.

Kevin_GP wrote:Woah you didnt have a wideband this whole time? Thats pretty crazy, good luck with 8-10 psi with the stock computer, at 8 psi my ecu would pull timing at random times and it was quite annoying. Also, I have a spec stage 4 that I have been wanting to install, let me know how that goes.
Oh, and to answer that...she was tuned on the dyno at 5psi. a/f was doing great

Now that i'm going to toy a bit with it i need the wideband to see the changes.

Ahhh, got you, well good luck running safe with the stock ecu, its the reason why I have MS right now.

weber · Post by **weber** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:07 am

Kev, just curious....what plugs were you running and what kind of fuel? Temps, etc?

I'm at a different elevation here...i think about 1500 above sea level. All those factors may play a difference. 10psi should be very possible with the stock ecu. We used to run 12 safely with a super20/g on stock 99 rt here.

anyway, what are you running for a WGA on your setup? Your doing the SRT turbo, correct? You doing anything to hold boost stronger to redline? Its driving me nuts having it fall on its face so early in the powerband.

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:46 am

I have NGK (whatever stock # is) in a cooler temp. My EGT in boost got to 1400 on a couple of hard runs. ARFs were always in the low 12's. Fuel was just old 93 octane :/ Waste gate is just stock with a TurboXS manual boost controller, and it held about 8 psi to redline (spiked just under 10 psi, maybe fell to 7, not sure I didn't keep a really close look on it).

If you have better gas you should be fine, but again I have a mag ecu and they are suppose to have more timing (atleast I am told), so your timing wont be so off and on like mine was. One day it would pull extremely hard (to the point i wanted to turn the boost down because I wasn't sure on the power I was making), and other days it sucked.

I dunno why you seem to be having so many problems, the only thing I did was connect both ports on my compressor scroll and Y them into my manual boost controller. What vacuum (i guess boost in this case) port are you using to control boost? I know boost is going to fall off at high RPM, but at lower boost it should be able to hold.

hul kogan · Post by **hul kogan** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:14 pm

^ yea, i am not sure why he is having so much trouble, either. when I had an srt-4 turbo I ran a stock WGA and a MBC and was able to run between 8-10 psi all day. if your do try a MBC and it isn't hooked up right, that could cause issues. other than that...wierd.

.Chris

weber · Post by **weber** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:03 pm

I have the smaller port on the back of the scroll (closest to firewall) running to the WGA with the BC hooked up in the middle. The bigger one thats on the outlet of the scroll is blocked off.

So your saying you have a line coming from both of those to a Y, then the BC, then to the gate?

So it could just be that i'm getting a weak signal if using only one of them, huh?

hul kogan · Post by **hul kogan** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:59 pm

weber wrote:So it could just be that i'm getting a weak signal if using only one of them, huh?

not so much a weak signal, but more like no signal at all. I think the way you have it hooked up might not be getting a correct signal since you are referencing just the one vacuum source on the turbo. it has been a few years since I had my srt-4 turbo, but if I recall correctly that (how Kevin described) is how I had it hooked up on mine and also the same type of deal with my current turbo and WGA. try swapping around vacuum lines and see if that helps...

.Chris

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Wed May 16, 2007 5:08 pm

I have it set up so both barbs on the compressor scroll connect into the MBC, that way it has the strongest source from the turbo. You might be getting a weak or no signal the way you have it, like i said just unblock your barb, run 2 vac lines from both sources on the scroll, and a T fitting with the other end into your MBC, then into your wastegate. That should hold your 10 psi to redline until you get up to about 15 psi, where the turbo starts to crap out.

The wastegate you bought might be to much unless it has a spring that will hold 10psi.

weber · Post by **weber** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:34 pm

Cool, thanks for the info on that.

I'm just going to return that other WGA. I spent to much money this week among other stuff too.

I'll let ya know how it goes soon. New clutch is going in friday night....so it'll be some time before I can get on it and find out if she's holding solid. ... Speaking of that. How should I break in this clutch? I've heard put it in and beat the shit out of it. And also heard drive it really easy for 500 miles. Kinda opposite ends of the spectrum. Which way have you heard is best?

Nevermind about the clutch. Spec clutches are distorted when when the material is riveted on. Therefore a good break-in of 450 miles of town / stop and go driving.

I love answering my own questions

slowass02R/T · Post by **slowass02R/T** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:51 pm

Kevin_GP wrote:I have it set up so both barbs on the compressor scroll connect into the MBC, that way it has the strongest source from the turbo. You might be getting a weak or no signal the way you have it, like i said just unblock your barb, run 2 vac lines from both sources on the scroll, and a T fitting with the other end into your MBC, then into your wastegate. That should hold your 10 psi to redline until you get up to about 15 psi, where the turbo starts to crap out.

The wastegate you bought might be to much unless it has a spring that will hold 10psi.

Why would you want to get your boost signal from the turbo scroll outlet? Pull your vacuum line for the MBC/WGA post IC. That way you have accounted for all the flow losses in the system. Every bend, IC flow losses etc ... Works much better that way on my wife's SRT than pulling signal right off the scroll housing. Ran my old turbo Neon that way as well and never had any spike or bleed off.

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:23 pm

slowass02R/T wrote:
Kevin_GP wrote:I have it set up so both barbs on the compressor scroll connect into the MBC, that way it has the strongest source from the turbo. You might be getting a weak or no signal the way you have it, like i said just unblock your barb, run 2 vac lines from both sources on the scroll, and a T fitting with the other end into your MBC, then into your wastegate. That should hold your 10 psi to redline until you get up to about 15 psi, where the turbo starts to crap out.

The wastegate you bought might be to much unless it has a spring that will hold 10psi.
Why would you want to get your boost signal from the turbo scroll outlet? Pull your vacuum line for the MBC/WGA post IC. That way you have accounted for all the flow losses in the system. Every bend, IC flow losses etc ... Works much better that way on my wife's SRT than pulling signal right off the scroll housing. Ran my old turbo Neon that way as well and never had any spike or bleed off.

Because there is no vacuum at the scroll, vacuum can mess with boost controllers depending on the kind you have. Vacuum also messes with part throttle boost (according to neons.org, I have no experience with that though). Also that is the strongest source of boost so your mbc will be most responsive (the problem weber was having).I know you loose psi from the turbo to the car, but you adjust your mbc based off the readings in the manifold, so either way its the same thing. I dont have any spikes or bleed off either when I am using both sources on the scroll.

slowass02R/T · Post by **slowass02R/T** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:08 pm

Kevin_GP wrote:
slowass02R/T wrote:
Kevin_GP wrote:I have it set up so both barbs on the compressor scroll connect into the MBC, that way it has the strongest source from the turbo. You might be getting a weak or no signal the way you have it, like i said just unblock your barb, run 2 vac lines from both sources on the scroll, and a T fitting with the other end into your MBC, then into your wastegate. That should hold your 10 psi to redline until you get up to about 15 psi, where the turbo starts to crap out.

The wastegate you bought might be to much unless it has a spring that will hold 10psi.
Why would you want to get your boost signal from the turbo scroll outlet? Pull your vacuum line for the MBC/WGA post IC. That way you have accounted for all the flow losses in the system. Every bend, IC flow losses etc ... Works much better that way on my wife's SRT than pulling signal right off the scroll housing. Ran my old turbo Neon that way as well and never had any spike or bleed off.
Because there is no vacuum at the scroll, vacuum can mess with boost controllers depending on the kind you have. Vacuum also messes with part throttle boost (according to neons.org, I have no experience with that though). Also that is the strongest source of boost so your mbc will be most responsive (the problem weber was having).I know you loose psi from the turbo to the car, but you adjust your mbc based off the readings in the manifold, so either way its the same thing. I dont have any spikes or bleed off either when I am using both sources on the scroll.

Gotcha.

If you have PTB you just need a bigger turbo