how do i install my UDP?

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:04 pm

hey fellas, i just got my MPx UDP in the mail and i was hoping someone could give me a quick rundown on how to install it. i'm gonna try to do it tonight. thanks!

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:10 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:REMOVAL
POWER STEERING PUMP AND AIR CONDITIONING COMPRESSOR BELT

Using a 17 mm wrench, rotate belt tensioner clockwise (Accessory Belt - Removal) until belt can be removed from power steering pump pulley. Gently, release spring tension on tensioner.
Remove the drive belt (Power Steering / A/C Belt).

GENERATOR BELT
Remove power steering pump/air conditioning compressor drive belt.
Loosen generator locking nut (Generator Belt Adjustment).
Raise vehicle on hoist.
Remove accessory drive belt splash shield (Accessory Drive Belt Splash Shield).
Loosen generator pivot bolt (Generator Belt Adjustment).
Loosen generator adjusting bolt until generator belt can be removed (Generator Belt Adjustment).
Remove generator belt.

and then for the crank pulley, carefulley do as the pic shows.....

If you dont understand what the pic is showing, then dont try doing it yourself. I did not have the proper tools to do the above so a TECH at work did it for me and had everything done in less than a half hour...cost me roughly $35

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:01 pm

not correcting you jrm, and not even BRR i'm sure, but neons don't have generators, they have alternators, generators havn't been on cars for quite a while now

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:12 pm

Hudson_Neon wrote:neons don't have generators, they have alternators, generators havn't been on cars for quite a while now

Uh... that's what an alternator is. It's just a different name for it.

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:24 pm

lol i was waiting for someone to say it. and thanks mucho for the help jrm868s! is the jrm your initials?

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:11 pm

i know that that's what an alternator is, but back in the day cars had literal generators, electrically they're set up slightly different

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:44 pm

bombtrack07 wrote:lol i was waiting for someone to say it. and thanks mucho for the help jrm868s! is the jrm your initials?

Yep those are my initials.

aperson · Post by **aperson** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:16 pm

Generators create electricity, whereas alternators only amplify electricity from the battery.

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:24 pm

aperson wrote:Generators create electricity, whereas alternators only amplify electricity from the battery.

LOL. No no no....

Alternators generate electricity. An alternator and a generator are exactly the same thing. And I don't mean "exactly" in a figurative way, I mean "exactly" in the most literal way possible.

Go look it up on Wikipedia or something. I don't feel like explaining it right now.

Craz1000 · Post by **Craz1000** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:39 pm

alternator generates electricity, specifically AC current, there are diodes inside the altornator that convert the AC to pulseated DC which the battery smooths out

ive never read into 'generators' but i assume they work the same way, maybe back when cars had the positive battery terminal connected to metal and the negative side was ran, however though i think this was a eruopian thing up untill 1968ish, im pretty sure american cars were always neagive chasis

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:48 pm

jrm868s wrote:
bombtrack07 wrote:lol i was waiting for someone to say it. and thanks mucho for the help jrm868s! is the jrm your initials?
Yep those are my initials.

awesome my initials are jrn lol so close

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:57 pm

Alternators need a small source of electricity to get the whole process started (initially excite the coil windings). Once they're running and producing voltage they don't need that supply anymore.

Generators don't need anything external electrically, just turn them and you get power.

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Sun May 20, 2007 8:08 pm

fixitmattman wrote:Alternators need a small source of electricity to get the whole process started (initially excite the coil windings). Once they're running and producing voltage they don't need that supply anymore.

Generators don't need anything external electrically, just turn them and you get power.

Actually you do need to supply continuous current to the field windings, as that is what sustains the magnetic field which produces current in the armature windings.

There are two different kinds of alternators/generators: those with permanent magnet rotors and those with field windings.

You can't really say that all "alternators" had field windings and all "generators" have permanent magnets though, because an "alternator" and "generator" are the same thing. (as I said before)

It is true that almost all alternators in cars today have field windings rather than permanent magnets, because varying the current through the field windings is how voltage regulation is accomplished.

The distinction between alternators and generators is really just a matter of what the output current is. An alternator is an AC generator. If you were talking about a DC generator, then you could not interchange the term "alternator" for "generator". If it is understood that the electromechanical device in question produces an AC current, then the terms "alternator" and "generator" become synonamous.

Craz1000 wrote:alternator generates electricity, specifically AC current, there are diodes inside the altornator that convert the AC to pulseated DC which the battery smooths out

The diode bridge in the rectifier converts the AC current into an almost continuous DC current. There may be some light ripple in the DC output, but for the most part the DC output should be quite clean. All of the "smoothing" is accomplished via the rectifier, not the battery. A car doesn't even need a battery to run, only to start it...

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:59 pm

alright fellas, i cannot for the life of me break loose the nut on the crank pulley. all i can do is get the pulley to turn with the nut. is there some kind of special lube or something i can use? there is a damn lot less space to work with than i had thought

also, how in the hell am i supposed to get the a/c belt on??? even I cant squeeze my arm in that little of a space

Post by **racer12306** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:15 pm

you can use an impact wrench, that will take it off easy.

or if you put it in one of the gears and make sure the dr side tire is on the ground, you can use a long rod to keep the pass side from spinning. its a little tricky but it will come off eventually.

iirc you can slide the a/c belt down from the top. and put it on the ps pulley, then around the a/c and the tensioner and crank. its not really that bad once you start doing it. i have pretty big arms and i didnt have a problem with it.

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:13 pm

if it were only that easy... i dont have an air compressor; the neighbor does, but i'm trying to mod the car without my daddy knowing (my parents are my other neighbors) because he'll gripe about how i'm wasting money "nothing i do to the car will make it faster, its just a waste of money" and i'm rather tired of hearing about it. i'll break it all apart again here when i get some time, hopefully within a couple days.

anomalous0 · Post by **anomalous0** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:18 pm

you can stick a small prybar or even a socket extension in through one of the pulley slots and it will catch on the oil pan. This will give you enough leverage to break the bolt loose. Whatever you do, do NOT use a socket extension as a crank insert (despite what you may have heard from some on the other .org). It can get stuck, like mine still is, the only thing holding my UDP on is the tight fit and the fact that aluminum galls on steel at high temps

If you want to do it quickly at home, you will NEED a torch, because if the pulley cools down from the oven to the car.....well you'll have to wait a bit longer while it heats up in the oven again. Also, DO NOT heat up the whole assembly if you have one where the center section unbolts. Just do the center hub. Last of all, I know it sounds silly, archaic, whatever, but ice the crank. Seriously. Just do it. My first UDP install took hours and hours of pounding because I used an oven and didn't have a torch or ice the crank. So much pounding that it ruined the UDP (though the fact that I pounded on the outer ring didn't help). My second UDP, I iced the crank, torched the center hub for about 5 minutes straight, and it just slid most of the way on there. Gave it a few good whacks with a mallet, and it went on tighter and further than the old one ever made it. Whole process took about 15 minutes.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:32 pm

it takes a good bit of time for the pulley to cool down after being in the oven. i put mine in the over a 375* for about 15 min, then i ran out to the garage, which is probably 400 ft or so and slapped it on there. i put the bolt down to make sure it seated straight. the pulley went on very easily.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:34 pm

bombtrack07 wrote:if it were only that easy... i dont have an air compressor; the neighbor does, but i'm trying to mod the car without my daddy knowing (my parents are my other neighbors) because he'll gripe about how i'm wasting money "nothing i do to the car will make it faster, its just a waste of money" and i'm rather tired of hearing about it. i'll break it all apart again here when i get some time, hopefully within a couple days.

You live next to your parents. Reminds me of that show "Everybody loves Raymond"

Do they randomly come and see whats going on?

As for the UDP install, I think you need a special tool to get that belt off.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:51 pm

no special tool needed for the belt. i believe its a 17mm wrench for the spring tensioner and then a couple more wrenches for the alternator belt.

WykedHellFire · Post by **WykedHellFire** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:56 pm

I guess I should never try to take that apart because when I saw the title I was like "how do I install my what?"

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:20 pm

-CgPeon- wrote:
bombtrack07 wrote:if it were only that easy... i dont have an air compressor; the neighbor does, but i'm trying to mod the car without my daddy knowing (my parents are my other neighbors) because he'll gripe about how i'm wasting money "nothing i do to the car will make it faster, its just a waste of money" and i'm rather tired of hearing about it. i'll break it all apart again here when i get some time, hopefully within a couple days.
You live next to your parents. Reminds me of that show "Everybody loves Raymond"

Do they randomly come and see whats going on?

As for the UDP install, I think you need a special tool to get that belt off.

yeh they pop up at random. mostly to give us food or stuff for the house or money

they have loaned me and my g/f so much money its not even funny.

the only item that i can reach with a socket or wrench is the crank pulley. everything else is a no-go. i cant even stick my hand in the itty-bitty space where the belts are. how in the world do i get to the belt tensioner?

Post by **racer12306** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:22 pm

are you on aim right now?

anomalous0 · Post by **anomalous0** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:27 pm

if you have the pulley puller (a 6" gear puller from autozone works just fine if you have an insert to put in the crank) then you can just pull the pulley off with the belts on after you get the crank bolt off.
Also, you can use a prybar as a lever between the upper torque strut and the tensioner. It's a spring-loaded tensioner, so once you have it as far back as it will go, just slip the PS belt off the top of the PS pump.
You WILL need to either put a prybar or socket extension through the slot in the pulley and wedge it by the oil pan, or else do the thing where you put the car in 5th and have the driver's side tire on the ground. I reccomend the prybar, you're gonna have to torque that thing alot to get it off. Or you could use your torch to heat up the old crank pulley and make it come off easier

P.S. I know it stays hot for a while after it's in the oven, but this guy needs it done fast, and needs it done right the first time, can't afford to take a long time on it or make any little mistakes that would take an hour or so to correct. That's why I'm telling him what he needs to do to be SURE it'll go on quick and easy. 3/4 of the time it'll work quick and easy with just an oven, but I was that 1/4 of the time it didn't, and it looks like he doesn't have understanding parents (I don't either, but my mom also knows little enough about cars that I can BS my explanations and make it sound necessary)

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:32 pm

i bought a 3-piece tribar puller set from harbor-freight and it has a 3" 4" and 6" and yeh it needs to be done right the first time

i havent been on AIM since high school lol

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:16 pm

To keep pulley from moving, just put the car in 5th gear, and it will not turn... mine didn't, and I got the info off here a long time ago.

As for the pulley, Autozone/Advanced Auto rents them, and for the impact gun wrench, whatever, I actually used an electric one from WalMart and when I was done, returned it, because it was not worth the $50+ to keep it.

anomalous0 · Post by **anomalous0** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:11 pm

I just remembered something kind of useful. It's not one of those things where it's impossible to do it without it, but it will make your life a whole hell of alot easier if you do this: Once the car is on jackstands, use a T-55 to undo the motor mount bolt, use a phone book or block of wood on a jack to prop up the oil pan, take off the torque struts, and drop that side of the engine towards you a bit. Makes it much easier to reach and loosen the big bolt that the alternator pivots on (there are also two little bolts that you have to reach in from the hood and more or less behind the motor: one to tension the alternator, and one to keep that setting.
Having the engine dropped a little will also make it easier to get the old pulley off, and will give you more clearance to put the new one on, which is not nearly as handy, but still nice.

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:36 pm

okay, so it seems we got the removing the pulley part down, now how hard is it to install the new belts?

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:41 pm

it is the reverse of removing them

If ou install the ALT blt first, then tighten and adjust the alternator, all you have to do is drop down the AC/PS belt to the UDP and place it back on the other pulleys, then pull the tensioner back and slide it on and release...

bombtrack07 · Post by **bombtrack07** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:17 pm

so it IS easier to start the p/s belt from the top and work down?