Please help find the leak *pics*

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:45 am

Hi everyone,

My '03 R/T has been leaking a few drops of something every night for two weeks now. I want to get the problem figured out and if any of you could help, that would be awesome.

I just past 3000 miles on my last oil change (Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic) and I am still in the safe range for oil level.

While looking under the car I am noticing a few spots with dark wet fluid that probably shouldn't be there. Is it engine oil? Is it transmission fluid? Both? Is it normal? Abnormal?

First spot; The oil plug. I am always very careful not to overtighten or under tighten the oil plug. I have heard too many horror stories of people taking their cars in for oil changes and finding out the person who performed the work torqued the oil plug so hard that it ruined the threads of the oil pan. What could my problem be here?

Second spot; Linkange area. Please forgive me for my lack of proper terminology. There are some drops of oil on this linkage and it looks like some oil splashing down the face of the casting. What do you think here?

Third spot; I am pretty sure this is the transmission radiator. It has, what looks like, oil on it and splashing of oil on the frame around it. Is this normal?

Fourth spot; This is the opposite side of the previously shown linkage. There are some drops and splashing on the edge and face of this casting.

The only mechanical problems I can feel in the car is a little more notchy feeling in the shifter in the lower gears lately and also an unrelated small 'clunk' when turning the wheel hard to the right which I figure is the ball joing going out. The notchy shifting really isn't that bad and I just figured it was time for a fluid change.

Anyway, if any of you have any insight or have had a similar problem please feel free to give me some advice. I do not wan't advice on switching brands of oil filter. I know fram sucks. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Thank you!

~Dan

daaboots · Post by **daaboots** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:01 am

Hard to tell but it looks like either your engine seal between the engine and trany or your oil pan gasket is leaking. That other small rad is for the power stearing not the trans.

Good luck

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:51 pm

daaboots wrote:Hard to tell but it looks like either your engine seal between the engine and trany or your oil pan gasket is leaking. That other small rad is for the power stearing not the trans.

Good luck

Thank you for the reply.

The oil pan gasket would be pretty easy, but I'm guessing the engine to tranny seal might be pretty tricky.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Thanks!

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:53 pm

Bump.

Need some advice from someone with previous experience with a leak like this.

Thanks!

jmr · Post by **jmr** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:12 pm

I used to have a 03 R/T and had to have the rear main seal replaced. The leak looked similar to yours. I was fortunate in that the warranty covered it.

Stonebender · Post by **Stonebender** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:33 pm

Looks like rear main seal. The "linkage" you speak of is your clutch linkage, and there's not supposed to be oil in there. Check your inner CV boots too.

DJSpellBound · Post by **DJSpellBound** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:15 am

jmr wrote:I used to have a 03 R/T and had to have the rear main seal replaced. The leak looked similar to yours. I was fortunate in that the warranty covered it.

Exactly, Just got this done about 6 months ago. Depending on how many miles are on your clutch, since they are going to pull the tranny anyway to replace the seal, I would replace the clutch at the same time depending on mileage. I went with a Centerforce dual friction Clutch for my R/T and I have no complaints at all.

Now mind you, after they pulled my tranny, they noticed another leak, and the way the R/T trannies are built, depending on the garage you go to, they might have to send it to a tranny specialist. All in all, after everything, fixing the tranny, replaced my 1st and third gears, new clutch, new seal.... $1400.

Getting the timing belt replaced tomorrow and I'll grab some pics from underneath when it's on the lift.

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:40 am

Thanks for all your replies everyone. I have e-mailed my pictures to the dealer and they are going to let me know what they think. Since two of you said it was the rear main seal I would tend to believe that. Thanks again. I really appreciate the help. If anyone else wants to chime in feel free.

jmr wrote:I used to have a 03 R/T and had to have the rear main seal replaced. The leak looked similar to yours. I was fortunate in that the warranty covered it.

I have the 7 year, 70,000 mile warranty with $100 deductable on it. I am still at 63,000 miles.

Is this issue covered by the 7 year/70,000 mile or would it only be covered under the 3 year/36,000 mile warranty?

biggrobb1995 · Post by **biggrobb1995** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:30 am

Depends on how many years old/miles are on your car which warranty will cover it. Probably the 7/70,000 is gonna be your best bet.

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:48 am

Update:

The dealer looked at the pictures and agreed with you guys; rear main seal. They said it IS covered by my warranty. It will cost me the $100 deductable and I can get that rear main seal replaced and any other tranny work necessary.

I'll miss my car for a little while, but it shouldn't hurt the wallet too bad to get it taken care of. I'm just glad it happened before my warranty was up. The car is 4 years old with 63,xxx miles on it so I just made it.

Thanks again!

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:18 pm

jmr wrote:I used to have a 03 R/T and had to have the rear main seal replaced. The leak looked similar to yours. I was fortunate in that the warranty covered it.

Did your clutch have oil all arround it? Did they replace your clutch under warranty also? I'm guessing since I have oil coming out of the clutch linkage that there is oil in there, so I am hoping I get a new clutch out of the deal too.

teamliviD · Post by **teamliviD** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:11 pm

Looks like Im to late, but it is the rear main seal. All the R/Ts have this problem. Its real easy to fix. Its just a matter of removing your tranny, taking a flat head screw driver to one side of the seal, bang on it a few times till its at an angle you can grab it and yank it out and replace it with a new one.

wernbfe · Post by **wernbfe** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:11 am

Well I'm new here to this forum here. I would also check your oil sending unit. Its located on the left side of your exhaust manifold next to the bell housing on the trans. Mine was leaking just like that and I was about to yank the motor when I noticed the leaking oil around the sending unit.

Just thought and and a hell of a lot cheaper to fix.

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:55 am

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I will check the sending unit.

Anyone know what I can expect from the condition of my clutch after oil has been in the clutch housing?

~Dan

DJSpellBound · Post by **DJSpellBound** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:19 am

soccerdanno wrote:Thanks for all the replies everyone! I will check the sending unit.

Anyone know what I can expect from the condition of my clutch after oil has been in the clutch housing?

~Dan

DJSpellBound wrote:Exactly, Just got this done about 6 months ago. Depending on how many miles are on your clutch, since they are going to pull the tranny anyway to replace the seal, I would replace the clutch at the same time depending on mileage. I went with a Centerforce dual friction Clutch for my R/T and I have no complaints at all.

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:34 am

DJSpellBound wrote:
soccerdanno wrote:Thanks for all the replies everyone! I will check the sending unit.

Anyone know what I can expect from the condition of my clutch after oil has been in the clutch housing?

~Dan

DJSpellBound wrote:Exactly, Just got this done about 6 months ago. Depending on how many miles are on your clutch, since they are going to pull the tranny anyway to replace the seal, I would replace the clutch at the same time depending on mileage. I went with a Centerforce dual friction Clutch for my R/T and I have no complaints at all.

In this post it doesn't say what the condition of his clutch is. I drive my car extremely gently and I am was not expecting to have to change my clutch at this time (63,xxx miles). I wanted to know if there was any damage to the plates or anything else clutch related due to the oil leakage.

DJSpellBound · Post by **DJSpellBound** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:51 am

My apologies, I figured since they were going to pull the tranny out to replace the seal, I assumed you would want a performance clutch in there as well. Mine was around 91,000 miles.

Back to the original clutch, it all depends on how much oil got in there.

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:16 am

DJSpellBound wrote:My apologies, I figured since they were going to pull the tranny out to replace the seal, I assumed you would want a performance clutch in there as well. Mine was around 91,000 miles.

Back to the original clutch, it all depends on how much oil got in there.

Not a problem.

If there was oil in my clutch assembly wouldn't I be feeling some serious slippage in the clutch? I thought the whole assembly is supposed to be dry and extremely clean. From the first picture you can actually see the oil running down the clutch linkage area which leads me to believe there has to be oil in my clutch assembly.

I'm guessing that oil wouldn't do much actual damage to the clutch, it might just need to be cleaned off. If I can get a new clutch out of the warranty I am definately going to try to do that, though. What do you guys think?

wernbfe · Post by **wernbfe** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:41 pm

Im not sure either. I have 164k on my clutch and its not as good as it was back in the day but it doesn't slip at all.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:24 am

Most of your questions have been answered....
As many have said, the rear main seal is common to go on ALL neons causing the above condition. The side effect, motor oil will get onto the clutch and pressureplate. The clutch unit(modular clutch) is "NOT" covered under your drivetrain warranty!
The clutch disc will absorb the motor oil and no you will not notice any problems at first, but later down the road you will since the clutch disc is now soaked with oil, its going to breakdown due to a chemical reaction. The disc CANNOT have any lubricants on its surface or it will break down prematurly later on down the road.
Your going to have to pay out of pocket for a new modular clutch setup. When you do, of course dont put a stock unit in, you will regret it later. Get yourself an 02 PT 2.4 Non-Turbo modular clutch setup. Its a direct bolt in upgrade with no ill side effects:

^^^
Stock 1996-present 2.0 T350 trani clutch

^^^
2002 PT 2.4 Non-Turbo cltuch (other applications also)

After the install you may notice that there is little clutch pedal play to engage or disengage the clutch. This pedal movement is adjustable by the clutch pedal itself with a 10mm bolt. Just dont adjust it to much or you will hear the throwout bearing riding the fingers on the pressure plate making funky noises...

Hope that helps ya

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:52 am

BlackRoseRacing,

Thank you for all your great advice and for the pictures!

The dealer actually told me yesterday that oil will not have gotten to the clutch because it is an independently sealed system in the bell housing and I need not worry about it. In your pictures I can see that it is NOT completely sealed. Why would they lie to me about this? I mean, I know all dealers lie, but they get their money either way because it is warranty. They don't need to lie.

Could the clutch be considered warranty if it was damage as a result of an issue that is covered by warranty?

~Dan

jmr · Post by **jmr** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:19 pm

They replaced the rear main seal only and not the clutch. The R/T had mayby 20K miles on it when I noticed it while changing the oil. The dealer took care of it since it was still under the 3/36 warranty.

It's good the warranty took care of it. You'll miss you car for a day but you'll miss the $$$$ even more.

My 05 SXT's rear main seal is still good although the front rotors are warped with only 23K miles on them just like the R/T's did.

Very rarily will they replace a clutch after the initial 12 month/12K miles. I quized the dealer at the time too and he said the clutch was fine. If you do replace the clucth use the PT stock clutch it's much better than the Neon's and is totally compatible.

soccerdanno · Post by **soccerdanno** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:50 pm

My car is in the shop currently. All of the work is covered under warranty! I just have to pay my $100 deductable. They said my clutch looks great (even after 63K miles) except for the fact it now has oil on it. They are replacing the clutch for free under warranty. Wahoo!

I get my baby back tomorrow.

2GN.ORG

Please help find the leak pics

Please help find the leak pics