My horn don't work

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:51 am

Yes, I searched. no one else has the same problem I do. I checked the fuses - they were good. I just put a new horn in - nothin. I think it might be in the electrical because my cruise don't work either and I'm beginning to think there's a problem with the wiring harness up near the column somewhere. Any thoughts?

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:58 am

Did you check the relay in your fuse box in the engine? Its a tiny black box in your engine bay fuse box. Look at the diagram underneath the cover and find it. Swap it temporarily with the fuel pump relay and hit the horn.

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:37 am

I went to Napa and got one and tried it before actually purchasing, and it didn't work.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:52 am

think it might be in the electrical because my cruise don't work either

Horn not working...
Cruise not working...
Is your airbag light on too?
I've got money on the clockspring being bad, the horn and cruise not working are the first signs of it going bad...

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:40 pm

the airbag light comes on when I turn the car on, but then it goes off.

where is the clockspring located? How hard to change?

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:28 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:
think it might be in the electrical because my cruise don't work either
Horn not working...
Cruise not working...
Is your airbag light on too?
I've got money on the clockspring being bad, the horn and cruise not working are the first signs of it going bad...

BRR is on to something. I would definatly bet that the problem was somewhere in the steering wheel/upper column. If it was just the horn I would say to check the connector behind the airbag. In this case, remove the neg battery cable and allow the air bags to discharge for a few mins. Remove the airbag from the wheel (2 bolts I believe). Check all connections and wiring. You can unplug the airbag from the connector if you need. Test for voltage if possible and compare to oem specs. You can check at the horn as well (under the pass headlight).

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:48 pm

I'm gonna go the clockspring route and see if that fixes anything. While I'm in there I'll check for wires and what not. I'll let ya know what happens.

Any tips on changing the clockspring? Where is located anyway?

OB · Post by OB » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:12 pm

The clockspring is located directly behind the airbag in the steering wheel. I havent changed one personally so Im not too sure what the procedure is, but im sure its pretty simple.

WykedHellFire · Post by **WykedHellFire** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:20 am

speaking about horns not working... my horn kept going off non stop and it couldn't get it to stop...I took the underhood fuse out in the mean time...what do I do to fix this?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:06 am

^^^
Sounds like you need a new horn pad.....

As for the airbag removal for the other topic here, BE CAREFULL!!!!!
We dont want to read about how you had an airbag deploy into your face because of something not being disconnect properly!

OB · Post by OB » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:00 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:^^^
Sounds like you need a new horn pad.....

As for the airbag removal for the other topic here, BE CAREFULL!!!!!
We dont want to read about how you had an airbag deploy into your face because of something not being disconnect properly!

yeah we do! jk yes please be careful, allow maximum time for the system to discharge just in case.

Post by **Diablo0** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:54 pm

OB wrote:The clockspring is located directly behind the airbag in the steering wheel. I havent changed one personally so Im not too sure what the procedure is, but im sure its pretty simple.

It's not very hard, pretty much pull the airbag off and there it is...

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:51 pm

it didn't work. Any other ideas? CC and horn still don't work. I've replaced the horn and the clock spring with the cc pods.

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:04 pm

hell, mines been working intermittently lately, sometimes it works other times nothing.. adjusting the steering column sometimes fixes it, but only for a little while.. have no idea what could cause that.. sept maybe a pinched wire somewhere....

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:15 am

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:45 pm

well, my cc is fixed - the servo wasn't plugged in.

Horn is still a no go. How hard is it to separate the horn pad from the airbag unit?

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:22 pm

two bolts under some grommets on the side of the steering column (like 8mm I think) and then it pops off front, then there are 4 t-bolts on the top of the airbag stuff, take off, and separate from front (it folds down) make sure you do this with battery unplugged and unplug the bag from steering column.

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:36 pm

the horn connector does not look like I expected. For those who don't know, under the pad, there's a big peice of silicone/plastic something with the wiring in it so you can hit your pad anywhere and the signal transfers through the wire.

All that to say it all looks good and I can't figure out why my horn's not working. All the fuses looked good. I replaced the horn. Nothin.

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:37 pm

i wishi could figure mine out.. works sometimes. and it never works when i really need it... (maybe my car is telling me to watch my roadrage lol) debating on hooking up an air horn to a seperate momentary switch..... hell, i should just get a PA/HORN system. had one in my first car, 1980 buick century, lmao... PA/CB radio/horn loved that thing...

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:40 am

yeah, mine is fricking dead as well... I am thinking that a whole swap of the cover and airbag would fix it

No thanks, too much money

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:34 pm

Well, I developed a new problem in that my airbag light was going on and off incessantly and finally just stayed on - then my cc stopped working again. Apparently the clockspring that I purchased broke (probably cause I didn't install completely perfect). I also found out that there are two different types of cc clocksprings - a 3 circuit and a 5 circuit. So I think that my original problem would have been corrected with the clock spring but I got the wrong one. We'll see tomorrow cause I purchased a brand new one, from the dealer, that is correct for my VIN. I'll keep ya posted.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:43 pm

my horn works again... I got mad and punched my steering wheel, like three times, third time it honked... worked ever since

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:14 pm

um...I don't think I'm gonna try that trick.

got a brand new clockspring - cc and airbag work again. now for the horn...I'm gonna check the wires.

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:29 pm

So...still not working.

Anyone have thoughts? I'm also on neons.org and someone on there gave me some info to check the wiring with a volt meter - but neons.org is down right now and I can't go back and check it. Anyone got any ideas in the meantime?

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:05 pm

In the PDC fuse 18 is for the horn. verify that there is voltage on both sides of the fuse. A simple test light will work. Fuse 18 feeds the relay coil and the input lead of the switched part of the relay.
On the relay the positions 86 (coil) and 30 should have 12 volts. They are the side that only has two pins. When the coil is energized the power is switched to position 87. (87a) isn't used.
Position 85 is what goes to the steering wheel. The horn contact is the ground path to the relay coil. The wire color is BK/RD from the PDC through the clockspring to the horn switch to ground.
Here is a link tp the relay pin outs. It is on page 3 (PDF format): http://www.omronauto.com/PDF/G8V%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

You may have a bad ground at the steering column. So the relay isn't getting ground. You can also jump the 30 to 87 in the socket to see if the horn works. that will verify the connection from the PDC to the horn.
The horn itself shares ground with the RH marker lamp, RH headlamp, speed control servo, and washer pump so if all those function then it's a safe bet that the ground is good there.
Hope this helps!

04R/T · Post by **04R/T** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:55 pm

For some reason I thought the clockspring assembly was behind the steering wheel and required the wheel to be pulled. The horn on my car is intermittent and I know the problem is in the column because the horn works fine with the remote.

Anyone know how much one of these things cost?

Flying_NEB · Post by **Flying_NEB** » Sat May 31, 2008 12:31 am

04r/t - a clockspring is $200 (give er take) brand new from the dealer.

All my other stuff works; I did the 85/30 check to make sure the horn actually worked - which it does. I did check the amps/volts or whatever with a meter but it was showing up right. That was before I put in a new relay fuse and battery. So, I'm gonna check it again on Saturday. Thanks for the info.

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:50 am

I'm having a similar problem on my 01, the fuses/relay are good. The horn works as well, it's brand new. It works when the car is off and it'll work when I turn the car on. It stops working after the cars been running. Could this be the MFS getting hot?

Need some help, thanks guys.

Themaggots · Post by **Themaggots** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:52 am

The MFS and the horn are not the same connector.

I'm not responsible for broken parts/accidents that might happen while testing. I've wrote this as how I would test it.
WIRING TEST:
To narrow down the problem,I would disconnect the battery and let it sit for a couple of minutes, remove the plastice trim surrounding the MFS then disconnect the clockspring connector.

Now that the airbag is /safely/ disconnected, reconnect the battery, turn the ignition to ON (airbag light should be ON) then take some wire and insert it in pin 5 (BLACK/RED wire) (Locking mechanism sits above pin 3 and 4) of the connector and momentarily ground it (Would probably work on steering column). The horn should work. If it don't, the problem is inbetween the clockspring connector and the horn itself.

If it does work and you want to recreate the "Horn don't work when car has been running" trouble, start the car and wait for the amount of time where it isn't supposed to work and momentarily reground the wire. If it's still working, the problem is either in the clockspring or airbag/switch itself. If it don't work, the problem is inbetween the clockspring connector and the horn itself.

CLOCKSPRING TEST:
If you want to determine if it's the clockspring (I assume here that the clockspring connector has been removed earlier for testing), turn the car off and remove the airbag (2x 8mm bolts) and disconnect it from the clockspring and disconnect the horn wire. Put the airbag aside. Remove the wire from the clockpsring connector and insert it in the horn connector (wire is RED IIRC), reconnect the clockspring connector and ground the wire. Horn still working to this point? Start the car, wait for a while and re-test. Still working? Turn the wheel lock to lock while testing the horn. If it does still work, the problem may lie in the airbag itself. If the horn stops working at any point in the test, there's good chances it's the clockspring, I would redo the wiring test then clockspring test to be sure.

AIRBAG SWITCH TEST:
To test the airbag switch, (I'm assuming here, you removed it earlier to do the clockspring test) take a multimeter, set it to OHM/Resistance/(Insert OHM sign here) and put the prong in the horn connector of the airbag and put the other prong directly on the metal casing of the airbag. You shouldn't see any values on the multimeter if you are not pressing the "horn button". Try pressing it at various place to see if you get near 0 ohm values (AKA the horn switch lets current pass). If you get near 0 at every place you press, then I don't know what the problem might be.

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:31 am

Wow, a lot of info. Thank you

I'll probably get to it this weekend.