PT NA 2.4 swap in an NGC Neon

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:38 am

I'm posting this thread mainly for information I'm finding/have found... Mostly random notes here and there that I'll compile into a list and how to eventually..... (some of this information has been confirmed by Mopar, indicated by *)

2004 PT NA block identicle to SRT4 / PTGT block...needs the oil squirters, rods, pistons, and bearings though. *

SRT intake manifold bolts to PT NA head

SRT computer runs PT NA motor no problem *

No sensor differances to worry about between SRT shortblock and PTNA shortblock *

Found new breed of supercharger... www.rotrex.com

thinking the C30-94 will do the job fine...

need to find a good bypass valve and wastegate(to control max boost)

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:19 pm

3.94 is kind of a waste, with a 2.4 make as much of your power as you can lower in the rev range and stay with a 3.55 or the 3.87(I think) T-850.

EDIT: Forgot you have 17's you shouldnt have too much trouble launching with a 3.94

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:53 pm

not really concerned about launching.....im not looking to build a drag car, i just want a peppy daily driver

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:11 pm

I have recently been thinking about doing a 2.4 swap from a stratus and was also wondering what else would be needed to basically turn it into an SRT block.

I don't want to have to go through the sentry key crap though. Just wanna swap it out and go w/ no major probs (although that prolly won't happen) I have access to quite a few 2.4 blocks in the junk yard near me most of which look great. I would however take it appart anyway just to fully clean it and check for damage. Plus I have access to my friends stock SRT turbo and intercooler.

I do want to do something a little different though... I want to keep my 3spd ATX and still do the swap (JRM has done this)

Just wanted to know any feedback about this if there is any.

dysphagia · Post by **dysphagia** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:16 pm

the only concern i have is the oil squirters, does the NA have a place to put the oil squirters or would you have to drill and tap the block?

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:29 pm

that i dont know...

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:32 pm

wouldnt it be easier to tap into the oil pan, rather than the block?

speedyrb29 · Post by **speedyrb29** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:23 pm

buy my 3.94 haha

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:59 am

would you have to drill and tap the block?

Yes....

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:51 pm

You're going to swap from NGC to non-NGC?

If so, awesome, go with a 97-99 mopar dohc computer, since itll run the car just fine.

blue demon02 · Post by **blue demon02** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:21 pm

invujerry wrote:You're going to swap from NGC to non-NGC?

If so, awesome, go with a 97-99 mopar dohc computer, since itll run the car just fine.

No it won't. And have fun rewiring the whole car.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:02 pm

Well, if he's going to rewire the car to non-NGC anyway, just go for the gold! Switch to 97-99 engine bay wiring. I know it wont be easy, or fun, but being able to use a 99 mopar, afx or stock would be awesome. Otherwise, he could use an 00-01, or 02 wiring harness and have stock or afx. for that year. It'll kinda be like converting to NGC for srt-swap, just reverse engineering.

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:08 am

yeah i've decided to scrap the stratus 2.4 idea...

After being at carlisle and having my car on the dyno there, i realised how much i WANT NGC...

edited first post for new information...

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:24 am

found this...looks like itll bolt up to a neon exhaust just fine to me

http://www.aaxel.com/Merchant2/merchant ... BA-1937SJS

gonna make a couple calls today in regards to compatibility with an 04 head...

Edit: Preliminary research shows that the exhaust manifold is the same from 01 to 07...still going to call mopar for a confirmation though...

Good thing i have an SRT downpipe

that'll come in handy. all i'll need is an exhaust

Thinking one of teh available exhausts that have no muffler in teh back...put a couple Moroso spiral flow mufflers in the B pipe, cut off the big round tips, weld on rectangular tips...should work well...

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:12 am

TPS Sensor: closed throttle: 0.68v...WOT: 3.78V

MAP Sensor: No Vac: 4.36V - 4.40V (probably becuase of temperature variances?)

Vehicle Speed Sensor(MTX ONLY): 5V Pulse Generator

AAT, IAT, CTS sensors: Thermal Resistors (computer reads the resistance to ground)

This is more useful for my carPC guages...but still info none the less...

If someone would like to temporarily donate a GOOD vaccum gauge, I could also get a better reading on idle vaccum, and come up with a ratio to figure out the MAP sensor's limits.

Readings measured on a Fluke multimeter using all stock sensors that came with the car 4yrs ago. 2.0L non magnum.

dysphagia · Post by **dysphagia** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:43 pm

so once again whats the motivation for this project? and why not just srt swap?

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:17 pm

2.4 SC...

and yes i know, why try to reinvent the wheel.....i'm not...i'm just using differant wheels, lol

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:25 am

did some number crunching today...

Equations provided by Garrett Tech Pages.

this is only in theory...not all figures in the equations are true to neons, but this gives you a ROUGH estimate as to what itll take to create 400hp on a 2.4

for those of you watching at home..... Go plot out where the pressure ration and mass air flow puts you at on the C30-94... right in there before the compressor's RPM limit, inside the 75% efficiency range away from the surge line...

NOW tell me i'm crazy

dysphagia · Post by **dysphagia** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:16 am

the only thing is that you cannot apply those equations to a s/c, revolutionary or not, do some fluid mechanics on the drive system of the s/c and you'll see.

oh yeah....just strap a 50 trim to that 2.4 and you'll see 400whp before you can actually do the math on the fluid dynamics of the rotex system

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:22 am

But airflow is airflow.....right?

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:38 am

yeah i'm with chris on this one.... there's no differance between 500cfm from a turbo and 500cfm from a super....its still the same air mass

dont be such a negative nancy, lol... i dont get why everyone is so opposed to this idea???

dysphagia · Post by **dysphagia** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:05 pm

NiteHawk wrote:yeah i'm with chris on this one.... there's no differance between 500cfm from a turbo and 500cfm from a super....its still the same air mass

dont be such a negative nancy, lol... i dont get why everyone is so opposed to this idea???

yes airflow is airflow but when it requires a percentage of total engine power to create that airflow its different

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:20 pm

its negligible... not of any major concern to me.....

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:35 pm

Everyone has to be the same. Diversity is bad.

everyone should drive a 2.4T neon, 2.4 SC's are bad. invention sucks.

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:32 pm

you're right frank, what was i thinking, lol

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:37 pm

racer12306 wrote:Everyone has to be the same. Diversity is bad.

everyone should drive a 2.4T neon, 2.4 SC's are bad. invention sucks.

Frank's got the Spirit!

well.. I want a Lotus.. Maybe I should put a 2.4T into that

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:39 pm

haha

frank was also being very sarcastic...

but whatever, i'm not forcing anyone to do what i'm doing, lol

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:58 pm

i know, i agree with you nitehawk

I think a supercharged 2.4L Neon would be really cool

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:47 am

yes airflow is airflow but when it requires a percentage of total engine power to create that airflow its different

Supercharges like we have now a days dont require as much HP to drive them like the old school roots blowers. Some supercharges on the dyno show they required minimal 1hp or less from a V8 to be driven to full capacity. Its all about being different....
Everyone turbo's this and or that, there has only been one rescently documented supercharged 1GN and only one 2GN(show use)....

Edit: actually 2 1gn's using the same supercharger kit

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:26 pm

The only thing i'll have to do, since a supercharger boost sooner, is upgrade the bolts to ARP studs (head, main, rod, etc).... do that and itll handle the stress without question

but of course, thats a good idea for anyone, even turbo guys and all motor guys