Supercharger

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:06 am

welcome to 2GN....

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:52 am

fixitmattman wrote: With the current 2gn setup this is difficult to obtain with the A/C and P/S where it is. While you could take all of that off, my car is a daily driver so those are options I don't particularily feel like dropping. If you can live without those, then you're swimming for room and belt access and it shouldn't take more than some custom bracketing and charge pipes.

Matt

I can live with that... lol I have both off right now as I type...Yea it sucks being w/out both but I'll live. And yes its a daily driver too..

CrashTeam · Post by **CrashTeam** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:38 pm

Any updates on the Project?

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:21 am

Haven't received the supercharger yet.

CrashTeam · Post by **CrashTeam** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:53 am

Im about ready to buy one and mail it to you, the sespence is killin me!

DjTransifi · Post by **DjTransifi** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:51 pm

"Casketbearer".. Calling "Casketbearer"... He was suppose to send it a while back ago..

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:33 pm

He's having some rough times now. We'll get it done. If another person wants to try it too, then get one and give me a call and we'll get it going. I'm game to build an intake, I just can't justify buying a supercharger that I don't need to build an intake for. I know you guys can't wait. This is the reason we started our business. Our Neons simply don't have enough aftermarket support. This kind of kit can level the playing field at the track with the import guys.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:39 am

Anyone with a spare M62?
Anyone who knows where they can get there hands on one CHEAP contact Lonewolf so he can get started on the R&D....

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:36 am

Well I took the plung. I just won an ebay auction for an M-62 off of a Nissan Pathfinder X-terra. Little differnt port layout than most M-62's I've seen, but no problems. Now I'll see if I can get a belt on it while keeping the A/C and P/S.

Matt

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:38 am

Sweet....
Hey why dont you contact Lonewolf on getting your car setup for the first guine pig.....
What I mean is, send your supercharger to them for the R&D, and in turn they send you the first kit for FREE....its a thought....

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:43 pm

Could, but I'm thinking of taking a different route. I want to keep A/C and P/S. I also want to set it up as a part time system system so I can run N/A on cheap 87 during the week, and just flick a switch and run boost when I want (exactly why I went super over turbo). Also, it has a different port configuration made for Nissan than a standard M-62's.

Matt

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:50 pm

mmmm
You know the Mercedes Kompressor model uses a switched system. Its like throwing an AC clutch on the end of the supercharger shaft to have control of when it is activated....

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:05 pm

Yes, Came off the C-230 kompressor IIRC. Have you seen the size of the drive pully on that thing? It's about the same size as an A/C clutch, absolutely huge. How am I supposed to build any boost off of that

I'm going along those lines though, just self engineered. Unless I use this for another project

The biggest challange will be mounting it though.

Matt

0111000001100100 · Post by **0111000001100100** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:15 pm

I think you want to use it for another project for the greater good of all 2gn neons out there

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:30 pm

GREAT do your own thing,
BUT lonewolf is still waiting for a supercharger to use for R&D...and no one has yet provided one.....

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:22 pm

Casketbearer's pump would be much better to use than mine. His more resembles the standard Eaton M62 layout. Looking from Lonewolf's position, it's not worth making different kits for different chargers off a GTP, X-tera, Merc. Super coup - etc. It's best if he picks one layout and sticks with it, and that's the standard M62 porting. Now depending on how he does this, he could make it adaptable such that the end user could get used blowers off of these vehicles to fit without too many mods.

The blower I purchased is being delivered to my house before it goes anywhere, and that alone will take around 3-4 weeks. It will require rebuild before anybody can use it. If he still has not recieved a blower by then I may consider letting him borrow mine. I don't know what lonewolf's intentions are with the kit, but if it drops the A/C and P/S it's of no use to me anyways. Then there's the other issue that this is the first time I've ever heard of lonewold. While I'm sure they're all great people, you can surely understand the uncertainty of sending a purchased blower halfway across the country to someone you've never heard of.

Matt

CrashTeam · Post by **CrashTeam** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:31 pm

If LoneWolf Buys a SC and does the job I would opt to buy the whole kit from him and the SC back. I know my word isn't much but I would do that, in the mean time I guess its back to looking for a used turbo and manifold...

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:13 am

Gentlemen, I got the supercharger from Casketbearer today. A big thumbs up to Mr. Greer. Development will start on Monday which is the 15th. To help speed things along and keep R & D cost down, I'm going to be asking some research help from all of you. Time is money, and I don't want this to drag into a 6-12 month development deal. But I also want to make sure the kit is perfect, so I need to see how much max boost the guys with the GTP's are running, what size pulleys they use and aftermarket ones they use. Also, some info on the 03 Cobra Mustangs and SVT Lightnings as I beleive they also run a roots style blower. I interested in stock vacuum lines they run. Also, the stock neon throttle body is going to be way too small it looks like and this GM one looks like a MAF set up instead of our MAP based set up. So were going to have to figure something out. By working together, I want to come up with an affordable kit that every one can get and not just guys with big check books. From what I have seen on supercharger kit prices, they seem pretty steep. I will keep everyone informed on the progress and I want some feed back since you guys will be the ones using them when they are done. So any wish list request of features you want need to voiced now. Initial looking seems to point towards a short runner set up as there is not alot of room. I don't really like the idea of remote mounting it as stock intakes for our cars aren't the best flowing units out there and the plastic ones are the most popular. This looks to be a fun and challenging project.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:33 am

some aftermarket GTP pulley sizes can be found here
http://www.zzperformance.com/products.php?id=111

ill try to help with research..

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:05 am

Lonewolf Performance wrote: so I need to see how much max boost the guys with the GTP's are running, what size pulleys they use and aftermarket ones they use.

Most of that info is going to be completely useless since all the paramaters that govern max boost on a 3.8 are going to be completely different on our engine. The only thing useful will be the pulley sizes. You're going to need to find the required blower volume and blower RPM to create the boost you want and then based off of that and the stock crank pulley dia find the blower pulley dia. Also, keep in mind that if you have a UDP the ratio's will be different again.

For parts you're looking for GM 3.8's, Ford 3.8's, Nissan 3.3's, or any other engine running an Eaton Blower (Can't remember if Cobra's run Eaton's or Lysholms).

Vac lines are easy, especially on the blower you have because there are ports built right into the TB/blower manifold for them, so just hook up all our vacuum junk to those. As far as the GM MAF thing goes, you should probably be able to just rip it out and call it a day. We obviously don't need it.

The only place you may have issues is when it comes to adjusting the BOV/Recirc valve. You may need to go aftermarket or rig something up because I dont' think the stock ones are adjustable.

Matt

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:32 am

mmm, someone who knows how to get blown->

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:37 am

^^^ Thanks

I've been doing a lot of research on the subject. How are you supposed to get it to work right and be reliable if you don't know what you're doing

Matt

0111000001100100 · Post by **0111000001100100** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:05 pm

Lonewolf Performance wrote: So any wish list request of features you want need to voiced now.

Water injection...at least the option to add it on if desired.

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:17 pm

The GM throttle body wont work. The tps looks to be different. I'm wanting to see what GM uses to control it. This will have to be a simple bolt on deal. I've been looking at the by pass valve and it will have to be modded to work. But I think it can. There will be an adapter plate where the GM throttle body goes to fit a Dodge throttle body. We have to use our tps. I don't want anyone to have to cut anything on the stock wiring harness if possible. The actual milling of the intake isn't going to be the hard part. getting everything intergrated to work flawless together is going to be the challenge. This M62 will be the base model and later down the road a M90 will be tried out as an option. Matt, your pretty well versed in superchargers. We should chat someday. We specialize in turbos, but this should work out pretty good. This supercharger is smaller in size than I expected. Which is good, makes trying to package it up easier. Water injection has always been part of the plan as an option.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:48 pm

I completely forgot about the TPS. I know on the .org a few guys there had adapters made to fit a Neon TPS onto a mustang TB. It was about a 1/8" aluminium plate or so. Had fastener locations to bolt to the TB, then an offset pair of locations to bolt the TPS to it. It worked well because both the Mustang throttle shaft and the Neon throttle shaft used a flat tang to drive the TPS. The adapter plate was needed because they were 90deg apart though.

I plan to run WI on my blower setup as I'm a cheap ass and would still like to fill up on 87. WI is the only way to do that.

Matt

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:13 pm

I am soo GLAD this is starting to move in the right direction. Matt you definetley have to help out. You obviously know your stuff on this. Thanks to whoever helps in this matter. Helping neons move faster.. lol Thanks! Also btw I heard when you run an SC you can run high compression cuz its better, is that true? Cuz I know w/turbo you dont want high comp.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:26 pm

Doesn't matter if it's a super or a turbo feeding the engine more air, the C/R has the same effect.

Low C/R + High Boost = High C/R + Low Boost.

I hate the whole, "you can't turbo a high C/R engine because you'll blow it up" BS. You can turbo whatever you like, but 15psi w/8:1 is a lot different than 15psi w/10:1. People don't seem to get that.

Typically S/C's run lower boost because they hog the power at higher boost levels.

Matt

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:29 pm

If you dont mind me asking, I know theres an obvious diff. in comp at same psi but, whats the part people dont seem to get...?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:33 pm

a lower C/R is better to tune than a higher C/R right? is that why people think there engine is gonna blow?

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:02 pm

mospaxreton wrote:If you dont mind me asking, I know theres an obvious diff. in comp at same psi but, whats the part people dont seem to get...?

That manifold pressure is only one part of the puzzle. It's actually the final cylinder compression pressure that's the real issue, and a few pounds of pressure difference at BDC can lead to a big change at TDC.

Anonymous User wrote:a lower C/R is better to tune than a higher C/R right? is that why people think there engine is gonna blow?

Better is relative IMO. The lower C/R will require more airflow than a high C/R engine. The higher airflow requirements allow the turbo to remain spooling at lower RPM helping to reduce lag when you get on the gas. The larger turbo will also produce more top end. A higher C/R will have lower airflow requirements allowing a smaller faster spooling turbo to be used. You'll get off the line quicker with a smaller turbo, but you may lack the top end you want should the smaller turbo not meet your airflow requirements. It comes down to what your goals are, and where you want the powerband to be.

Turbo sizing is an art, and depends on a lot of factors. There is no one right answer when it comes to turbo size.

Keep in mind with all I've said I've yet to put it into practice, so take what I say with a grain of salt

Matt