My Air Conditioning Experience

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:12 pm

The last couple of days has been quite hot around here and I just recently tried the A/C in the Neon. Well... Nothing but hot air. I could hear the engine fan kick on and a click under the hood when I turned it on so I assumed everything was working and maybe the previous owner just ran the A/C constantly and it needed recharged. I stopped by AutoZone and picked up an instant recharge system in a can. A 15oz can that contained 12oz R-134A refridgerant and 3 oz. oil and o-ring lube or something like that. It had the hose that you connect to the low side of the A/C and you fill it, etc. etc. Well, after I get the can home... I'm trying to figure out which connection is what on the A/C lines. Still haven't figureed it out... BUT... I figured out why my A/C isn't cold. Hmmmm.... There's no belt running around the pump! It looks like someone got a shorter belt and just opted out on having the A/C. What I would like to know is the part number for the belt that I need to purchase to accomodate the A/C. AutoZone had two listings: An alternator belt, and a A/C & power steering pump belt. I'm assuming I need the A/C & power steering belt, but I wanted to check with everyone else first. What does the serpentine belt run on our cars? I see the alternator belt is also seperate? Is there a belt routing diagram anywhere for our Neons? I thought on most cars there was a diagram under the hood... Or is that old school now?

Oh yeah... The belt also looks like it might be a pain in the ass to change... Any input?

Thanks again, everyone!

evlneon · Post by **evlneon** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:27 pm

DOOD! DO NOT USE THE R-12!!!!

i'm not sure about the 2gns, but the first gens use R-134a refrigerant. i do know that R-12 has not been used in automotive applications since the early 1990s though. R-12 and R-134a ARE NOT compatible (read: it'll fuck your shit up

).

Post by **Diablo0** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:37 pm

DO NOT use R-12. R-12 contains ChloroFluoroCarbons (CFC) which depleate the ozone when released into the atmosphere. Neons requrire R-134a which is non-toxic, non-flamable, and does not contain any CFC. Though R-134a doesn't contains any CFC is does however still need to be handled like R-12 since R-134a is still a greenhouse gas. So do not release it into the atmosphere.

Next thing....

The alternator has it's own belt and it doesn't power anything else.

The accessory drive belt powers the power stearing and air conditioning.

The belt is easy to change... infact very easy. You just need to put a 17MM open end wrench on the auto belt tensioner and pull towards you to release the tension on the belts to remove it. Then just install the new larger belt to accomadate both the A/C and PS and pull the tensioner back towards you to put the correct tension on it.

To access the belts, pull the passenger side wheel off and take the splash guard off (4 screws + 2 push rivets hold it on). From there the belts will be right infront of you.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:42 am

MY BAD. I just experienced a brain fart. It was the R-134A that I bought.

I purchased the R-134A recharge, not the R-12. They don't even sell R-12 anymore... What am I thinking? Oh wait, I wasn't.

(Edited my original post to reflect my stupid-ism.)

And thanks Jason, I think that cleared everything up. Can anyone find a part number for me for the belt I DO need? The thing that looked like a pain, was the thought of trying to get the new belt on.

Post by **Diablo0** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:02 pm

Gates belt part number is: K040517

Oh.. and there is a diagram if you want it to see it...

evlneon · Post by **evlneon** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:52 pm

03sxt wrote:I purchased the R-134A recharge, not the R-12. They don't even sell R-12 anymore... What am I thinking? Oh wait, I wasn't.

yea, i was wondering how you managed to get R-12 since the sale of it has been prohibitted to certain specialty dealers, but that's kewl dood.

and to go along with jason ^. gates makes very good quality belts. i'd recommend going with them.

eVilcreations · Post by **eVilcreations** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:21 pm

I just replaced both my belts on the Neon.....$14.00 for both MOPAR belts from the dealership..........

RopeRat1 · Post by **RopeRat1** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:37 pm

He said R-134a (12oz can). Those are available.

R-12 is only available to licensed technicians and is super expensive.

The last Mopars using R-12 was the '94 P-car (Shadow/Sundance) and the A-body (Spirit/Acclain/LeBaron). Chrysler was the first mfgr to make the switch to 100% R-134a on the assembly line.

Jonathan (RopeRat1)

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:35 am

Diablo0 wrote:Gates belt part number is: K040517

Thanks Jason, that helps! I'll probably go with the Gates belt. $6.05 from RockAuto.com - Could this be right?

EvilCreations wrote:I just replaced both my belts on the Neon.....$14.00 for both MOPAR belts from the dealership...

Should I just replace both of them while I'm at it? Neither of them show any wear or anything...

RopeRat1 wrote:He said R-134a (12oz can). Those are available.

Actually, in my original post, I had said "R-12" by accident. I went through and editted my original post after I got the "DON'T BUY R-12" responses.

Post by **Diablo0** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:54 pm

Just head over to Autozone or Advance Auto Parts, they'll have them instock, or atleast SHOULD.

You can but you might just be throwing money away if there aren't any cracks or any kind of damage to the alt belt.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:28 pm

Diablo0 wrote:Just head over to Autozone or Advance Auto Parts, they'll have them instock, or atleast SHOULD.

I'm looking for the A/C & Power Steering belt, right? It's either that or the Alternator belt. Both are around $15 each.

Post by **Diablo0** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:45 pm

Yeah, they should have the belt but if their that price... ick... I didn't think I paid that much when I put my UDP on... but oh well, I guess I did.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:06 pm

HELP!

Decided to do my belt today. After I got the splash guard off (3 bolts, 3 push pins) I discovered that I think my A/C pump is shot. First off, it's rusty like hell... Secondly, there is a metal ring insde the pulley that is loose and wobbles around by the bolt that holds the pulley on. This doesn't appear to be normal. I tried to make a video wobbling this ring so someone might be able to tell me for sure if it's broke. This fucking sucks. 1 hour into what sounded like a 45 minute project with about 3 hours left to go.

I'll post the video in about 10 minutes.

Please help me!!!

Right-Click, Save-As...
http://www.i3ox.com/badacpump.avi

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:41 pm

Okay, well I went ahead and put the new A/C belt on anyways and the A/C pump is making some strange noises when I turn it on and off. I'm pretty sure they're coming from that ring thing... I ran the A/C for about 20 minutes and no cool air at all. Think it might need a recharge? Or don't waste anymore money and save for a new A/C pump? Whatcha' think?

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:55 pm

Wow, looks very messed up for an 03' neon.. But dont know what could have caused that... Try recording a vid of it on.(when the car and a/c is on..) Then post it here.

WiTeOuT · Post by **WiTeOuT** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:55 am

I would get a new pump dude. That thing looks like it will cause nothing but TROUBLE in the future. You should try a junk yard man....I have no clue why an 03 would be so bad!

Nice intro on your video.

Ifixyawata · Post by **Ifixyawata** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:16 am

Yikes! I hope I'm not left with no A/C in two years. Working, cold A/C was one of the perks to buying a brand new car for me.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:10 am

mospaxreton wrote:Wow, looks very messed up for an 03' neon.. But dont know what could have caused that... Try recording a vid of it on.(when the car and a/c is on..) Then post it here.

I'll go out later and take some video with the cheap camera and see if I can't get some of it in action. Makes me wonder why there wasn't a belt going around it when I bought it. Did it break and the previous owner didn't have the money to buy a new compressor?

I'd check junkyards around here, but the junkyards we have totally suck. Nothing newer than like early 90's cars.

Yeah, the A/C is a must for me, even if it robs some power. I don't live in Phoenix or anything, but it gets pretty damn muggy when it's hot here and A/C comes in handy. I was the stupid one that saw the controls for the A/C when I was buying the car... I just assumed that A/C on a 2003 car would work.

There I go thinking again.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:21 pm

Just as an update...

Didn't drive the Neon yesterday. Went out to today to start it up and wow... That A/C pump was making a hell of a racket without the A/C even running. I tried to turn it on and it still keep rattling like crazy. So, in conclusion, I'll be replacing the new (longer) belt with the old (shorter) belt tomorrow to eliminate the A/C pump once again. Does anyone know if there is a way to remove just the pulley off the A/C pump? Maybe the pulley/clutch is bad and the pump still might be salvageable or is it all one sealed, unserviceable unit? I'll be calling around tomorrow afternoon to try to get prices on a new pump and I'll probably try a few junkyards again.

I'll keep ya' informed. Thanks.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:14 am

This is going to hurt you.....

5058163AD A/C Compressor - $474.00 list price(and there is only 50 left in the US)

5014572AA A/C Clutch overhaul kit - $35.25list(as long as your compressor is fine you can use this kit to rebuild the clutch)

5014573AA A/C Clutch - $202 (complete bolt on hub)

No there is not a reman A/C compressor offered through mopar yet....

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:39 am

Thanks for the info BRR... I checked a few online boneyards this morning and so far found the cheapest remanufactured A/C compressor for $289 + $17 shipping (because it weighs like 20 pounds)

I'd like to think that the compressor itself is fine and I could just go with the clutch & pulley because that's what's making all the horrid noise. Maybe I'll take a stab at it and try the overhaul kit. Where'd you get that info from and where would I order it if I decided to go that route?

EDIT: Ooooh. Just got an e-mail from "Pete's Auto & Truck Parts, Inc" and they said: "hi its called an ac compressor i have one with a 1 year warranty including shipping cost is 110.00 there is no cre charge call and for me" - Hopefully the service isn't as bad as their grammar and typing.

Not a bad deal, eh? Too bad I don't have $110 at the moment.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:40 am

03 SXT,
I got the numbers because I work for DCX in the parts department

If your interested PM me and I will order the kit cheaper, and ship it to you..

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:45 pm

I really appreciate that. I'm going to (if the weather clears up soon) get underneath the car and pull the compressor off and take a better examination of it. I might end up getting that clutch rebuild kit and trying that. It'd be hard for me to believe that the actual compressor itself would be bad. You think the A/C system is still charged? Should I should probably try to de-pressurize the A/C system before removing the compressor, huh?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:23 am

most definately discharge it....

Ifixyawata · Post by **Ifixyawata** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:28 pm

I'm guessing that means taking it to an authorized A/C repair place and having the system evacuated, right? I know you can't just bleed it into the air, and then refill it later with more cans.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:01 pm

What no one knows won't hurt them....

Ifixyawata · Post by **Ifixyawata** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:50 pm

I remember reading there's something like a $100,000 fine for bleeding refridgerant gasses into the atmosphere... I guess I owe something like a half million to the EPA... heh.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:24 pm

Ifixyawata wrote:I'm guessing that means taking it to an authorized A/C repair place and having the system evacuated, right? I know you can't just bleed it into the air, and then refill it later with more cans.

Who in their right mind would unskillfully vent R-134a refrigerant into the atmosphere?!

Ifixyawata · Post by **Ifixyawata** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:24 pm

Fear not, these were all older cars. I only vented R-12!

My Monty Python logic tells me that, numerically, R-12 is only 9% as bad as R-134 is.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:19 am

Thats true to a point...
Rescent studies by automakers are finding out that R134A is just as bad for the atmosphere as R12 was. They are still doing further testing on it, there also condidering using CO2 as a R134A replacement..excpet CO2 operates at extremely high pressures....
Keep in mind, these test are being done by the people who think we are going to switch to 24volt cars VS 12volt