AOBE voltage clamp turbo boost map missing

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:54 am

Hey I seen this on ebay, WTF. It doesnt look like it even works and it looks handmade what do you think?

But what i was going to ask if it will work for the ngc computer on a 2004 neon sxt or not? It looks handmade and but as usuall I dought it will work cause the ngc ecus suck big balls and im tired of this POS sxt as it is. Its time to get an SRT right?

Here is the site.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-ne ... enameZWDVW

snufflucks · Post by **snufflucks** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:46 am

You sound angry there, chief. It is hand made from radioshack parts and it does work. I made one myself that I used on my car. I still have it, but it could be yours for a very reasonable fee

. Are you beginning to collect parts for a turbo build or something?

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:21 am

with ngc you are stuck with either megasquirt or the portfueler, or any other fuel controller. ngc hates everything. I have made one also. for about that same price. they do work at tricking your MAP sensor into not providing the ECU voltage higher than what would represent normal vacuum. anything over about 4.5v output from the MAP the computer starts to freak out, makes the car buck and can be dangerous.

snufflucks · Post by **snufflucks** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:28 am

Jamie wrote:with ngc you are stuck with either megasquirt or the portfueler, or any other fuel controller. ngc hates everything. I have made one also. for about that same price. they do work at tricking your MAP sensor into not providing the ECU voltage higher than what would represent normal vacuum. anything over about 4.5v output from the MAP the computer starts to freak out, makes the car buck and can be dangerous.

Mine more or less did whatever it wanted to do. The problem I had with the car is that it would rarely go into open loop even with the oxygen sensors unpluged. Mine never bucked. It just shut off every once in a while. I am about 500 ft above sea level and I had to run the map clamp at 4.86, I beilieve. any deviation of + or - .03 would cause problems. Also, it would pull timing like crazy. The ngc cars really need a MS. The port fueler will still allow the computer to pull alot of timing.

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:05 pm

Yea im in the process of turboing my 04 neon sxt. my budy had an srt4 that he had a T3/T4 turbo that were thinking about puttin on my car. but i do have the stock srt turbo system just need MS or something good for the MAP sensor or whatever i need, plus the conversion kit.

my budy also gave me an idea. to take my sxt exaust manifold cut off the flang and cut off the srt flang and weld the flang of the sxt manifold to the srt manifold is that a good idea?

That way i dont have to buy the conversion kit thing.

So i know some about MS, who knows about the port fueler? I was wondering if someone will give me some info on the port fueler?

Thanks

snufflucks · Post by **snufflucks** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:04 am

my budy also gave me an idea. to take my sxt exaust manifold cut off the flang and cut off the srt flang and weld the flang of the sxt manifold to the srt manifold is that a good idea?

For what you will end up paying in labor, you might as well get the manifold adaptor.

So i know some about MS, who knows about the port fueler? I was wondering if someone will give me some info on the port fueler?

The prot fueler is a fuel only system. You put a custom machined plate between the intake manifold and head. You mount 4 extra injectors to the plate. These injectors are operated by a controller. The good thing about the port fueler is that fuel control and timing is stock until you push the car into boost then it just adds more fuel. The bad thing about it is that it cannot control the ignition. You will see a big difference in performance with the capability of ignition control.

my budy also gave me an idea. to take my sxt exaust manifold cut off the flang and cut off the srt flang and weld the flang of the sxt manifold to the srt manifold is that a good idea?

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:17 pm

what if i know family that knows how to weld. my family has a shop that we use. my dad, grandpa and uncles know how to weld so thats why i thought that flang thing was a good idea.

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:00 am

The reason why i was asking about the map clamp thing is that i wish that someone can make something that can go on that map sensor that will trick it without leaning the fuel and that will adjust the timing were us sxt people can run turbos on our stock ecus without spending alot of money, like MS or Portfueler.

Has anyone sent a email or contacted AEM and asked why they havent made a plug and play engine managment system for us 03-05 sxt, rt, se neons cause of our crapy ecus we cant do nothing but look down in shame of what we own. I have heard go stuff about MS and Portfueler, dont get me wrong. But they are a pain to install and still have to run with stock ecu just have to hardwire witch is a lot of labor time and money.

If anyone knows AEMs email let me know A.S.A.P. cause i have been to there site and cant find it, it could be hidden too. So if anyone nows there email let me now cause im going to ask them so many questions about this by the time im done with them they will make one, hopefully they will, LOL.

I just want a plug and play for my 04 sxt so i dont have to deal with hardwiring and such.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:06 pm

AEM would not do it because the return on the time invested into it would not be beneficial to them -- IE The opportunity cost of r&d on something like so would be too great of a loss for them.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:02 pm

What is your plan for your car, and what are your goals? because it sounds like you don't really know.

"But they are a pain to install and still have to run with stock ecu just have to hardwire witch is a lot of labor time and money. "

let me remind you that your building a turbo car now... get used to spending money.

I can say from first hand experience that no matter how well the portfueler is at controlling fuel, it will NEVER provide you the timing control that you will need. because it is just a fuel controller. MS turned my car into a brand new car as soon as I dialed in the Spark.

if you want a drive and go deal then keep an eye on Eistienmayers post about his kit that him and Len Ayela (who is practically a turbo god in the neon world) is building. it will come with an MS that is pretty well dialed in for your purposes.

or you can use what you have with your srt system. many guys here have the srt setup. there is no point in trying to adapt the sxt manifold for a turbo. if its designed like my 2000 manifold then i dont think it would be possible.

but anyway we have told you the tried and true ways to do a reliable turbo build. so the rest is on you.

good luck tuning
J

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:05 pm

Jamie wrote: I can say from first hand experience that no matter how well the portfueler is at controlling fuel, it will NEVER provide you the timing control that you will need. because it is just a fuel controller. MS turned my car into a brand new car as soon as I dialed in the Spark.

quoted for truth. No matter how good your fuel tuning is, with the stock ecu controlling spark your car will be slow/unpredictable. MS with full spark at 5 psi was way faster than stock at 8-9 psi with ecu controlling spark.

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:47 am

Thanks guys for all your help. I found out what im going to do.

This is my plan.....

MS
High flow fuel pump
high flow oil pump
SRT fuel injectors
Eclipse/talon side by side intercooler with piping
SRT turbo/manifold with BOV block off plate so i can have my own BOV setup
conversion kit for SRT manifold to go on SXT head
boost controller
Triple gauge pillar pod with boost/oil/airfuel raito gauges

I think that is all. So if anyone has any ideas how i can run this on stock internals with this setup that im missing, please let me know that way I dont forget and blow up my engine, lol, funny huh.

Anyways thank you guys for your help, ideas and support. Time to get to work on my 04 neon SXT turbo project.

By the way whats the max pounds or boost I can run on stock internals? 8-10?

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:07 pm

make sure your a/f guage is a wideband, not narrow --- a narrow is best for a light show, not tuning.

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:10 am

OK sweet thanks for the air/fuel ratio gauge info what about boost? Thats the only thing i think im not sure about? I dont know what boost i can run on stock internals, how much boost?

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:38 am

6-8psi, although I believe einsteinmaier is running like 14 psi??? on stock internals.

He also has a monster tune though, and is running MS.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:06 pm

11psi, actually. It's spiked to 16 due to a problem with a manual boost controller, but my foot jumped off the gas pretty quick before I did any damage.

Yes, I'm running MS, and using ethanol for fuel, so I have quite a bit of flexibility with timing. 10psi is pretty much the "safe" level for a 9.3:1 neon motor. I wouldn't recommend someone to do what I've done unless they have plenty of experience.

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:23 am

I was woundering wich MS i should get? there are many different ones out there. i was woundering if someone would give the the model number for a good one so i can see what im looking at? also when MS is hooked up the the NGC computer how does it hook up without the check engine light coming on? and how does is hook up to the NGC?

Bluesxtturboneon · Post by **Bluesxtturboneon** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:34 pm

OK, Say i was going to use the Hahn Port Fueler and then something to control the spark like MSD ignition box. How would I beable to control the map sensor without the check engine lite coming on?

The reasone why I ask cause a friend of mine offered me the MSD for my car for dirt cheep, then he found the Hahn Port Fueler for dirt cheep for me also.

So would I use something like a "AOBE voltage clamp turbo boost map missing" or "Fuel Mapper" wich is basically the same thing, I think, at www.hahnracecraft.com

The reasones why cause I dont want to do all that wiring of the Megasquirt, I will be doing my own tuning thats why.

Thank you

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:57 am

You really need to do the research on why you need each part.
To get you started, the stock Neon MAP sensor is 1 BAR. That means it will never see more than atmospheric pressure. The MAP clamp just keeps it under control so that the voltage it sends the ECU is within the ECU's expected range. Keeps it from stumbling into boost.
The portfueler works pretty well for fuel, and that's it.
MSD doesn't have full spark control. Just allows you to adjust a few degrees of retard. A good unit, but doesn't have full control still.
Using a mixture of parts still won't address the issue that the NGC demands a linear TPS/MAP relationship, and will ruin your fun in a hurry if you don't figure out a way to fool it.
That being said, the best way to turbo an NGC controlled motor is still to get rid of the NGC altogether. The only real option that has been tested is the MS.
In short, grow a pair and wire one in. If you need help tuning, get a hold of some of us that know what we're talking about.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:02 pm

grow a pair and wire one in. If you need help tuning, get a hold of some of us that know what we're talking about.

by the time you build the map clamp, wire in the map clamp, wire up the module for the port fueler, Wire in the MSD box, you have already ran more wires than you would have with the Megasquirt.

its easy, get you a wiring diagram for the year of your car match the colors to the output on your MS wiring harness and just go for it. its like seven wires... seriously.

I am starting to think turbo might not be a good idea for you at this point... Buying alot of cool parts is cool and all, till you have no money to put gas in it...