rotors and pads????

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:54 pm

ok i have some questions about rotor that i need help with i was wanting to get some new rotors. my brother keeps telling me not to get slotted, cross drilled b/c they crack between the hole but then the car shows on tv keep talking about slotted, cross drilled rotors and i see them put them on big trucks. i am going to buy ceramic pads and i heard they gloss over with factory rotors and that if i was going to go with ceramic pad to use slotted, cross drilled rotors to stop the glossing of the pad. so i confussed.

my question is what is the better rotors to use i want a good rotor but dont want to pay an arm and leg for them and i searched and seen everyone has diffrent set ups?

what about ebay rotors are they good or does anyone know any good brands of rotors off ebay?

a little about my driving just so you know how good the rotors need to be. i like to drive fast all the time if im not doing 15-20 over or faster im not happy i like to change lane fast and some times at the last min. yes i have road rage this is why i need damn good rotors that wont crap out on me. please help and thanks for all the help and comments every little bit helps

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:11 pm

based on your explanation of your driving habits, i can't make any recommendations on rotors, since i don't have any experience. what i do recommend, tho, is to learn how to drive like a civilized person lol. our cars don't stand up to high-speed impacts very well at all.

PS you asked for the criticism when you put yourself out there.

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:21 pm

its cool i can take it. i do know how to drive normal just dont like going slow i guess thats why i paid 500 for wreckless driving at about 85 in a 55 zone when really i was doing about 110. i guess its a good thing i dont have a srt4

but which ones have you heard were better

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:56 pm

i think the big brake kit i was looking at for my car was cross-drilled only. look at an F1 car, see what they're running, and get the same type of rotors lol. best suggestion. /thread.

even better would be to go with an oem type rotor and a twin piston caliper, but i don't recall having ever seen one for a neon.

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:58 pm

lol i need i f1 car do they sell them for street use lol

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:44 pm

if you could afford one, you wouldn't care. you'd have the cash to pay the tickets and impound fees.

edit: whichever rotor you decide to go with, spring for the metal that doesn't oxidize so easily. i hate seeing rust on my rotors after i finish washing the car.

jphillips · Post by **jphillips** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:52 pm

...for the record, there is very, very veryveryvery few crossdrilled rotors on the market that can even remotely be considered performance enhancing (read mercedes and porsche rotors with holes cast in them and mettalurgy to support that casting type).

That being said, xdrilled *does* look cool. If you drive hard (and I mean a full day of canyon bashing, track attacks or conedodging), then you need to steer clear of anything crossdrilled. Slotted isn't a bad option if you need some bling on your rotors.

If you don't drive quite that hard, then go fer the looks.

Drilled rotors will crack. They will crack. Rotors crack when they are drilled. Lol. They can look pretty cool tho.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:41 pm

A quality set of solid rotors will take a beating and come back for more.

On the last lapping day....

Me:

An S2000 with slotted rotors:

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:13 am

I was talking to a performance shop at the Seattle auto show about brakes, and they suggested staying clear of the slotted rotors cause they do not vent enough like the xdrilled. That last picture seems to show a good example.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:46 am

I have cross drilled and slotted ebay rotors all the way around with ceramic pads.

NO squeaks whatsoever at any point and my stopping is freaking unreal, but that might be just because I got rid of the drums. I'm not a mad man like you and i'm very easy on my brakes...but i'll you guys know at the end of the year if I have any cracks or anything, i'm always taking these wheels off anyway.

R1 concept rotors btw. Duralast pads

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:00 am

fixitmattman wrote:A quality set of solid rotors will take a beating and come back for more.

On the last lapping day....

Me:

An S2000 with slotted rotors:

what kinda pads you using? i was told that the ceramic pads glaze over after a few hard stops with solid rotors making it even harder to stop

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:54 pm

Ceramic pads are fine, I've run them before without any issues. Bed in any pad correctly and you won't have any problems.

Right now I'm running Hawk HPS. Took a beating on lapping day to the point where the brake fluid was the weak point, not the pads or rotors.

jphillips · Post by **jphillips** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:39 pm

I wish the thread and crossthreads were still up at CornerCarvers and Mustang Corral about rotors - it was the most entertainingly educational technical thread ever! The people participating in the thread were among the most educated and knowledgable in the industry regarding brake systems in particular - collectively they came to the following conclusions;

1) if you can lock the wheels, you have enough braking
2) more powerful brakes will simply lock the wheels sooner, not provide more stopping power
3) crossdrilled rotors were born to save rotating mass, not provide "outgassing" or additional cooling - and only used for mmmmaybe 100miles
4) holes that are drilled into a brake rotor *will* develop cracks
5) slots that are cut into the face of the rotor *will* develop cracks
6) terms like glazing, outgassing and "provide a better bite" when used in the context of marketing crossdrilled rotors are exactly that.
7) "outgassing" becomes something that you absolutely need to deal with when you are using ablative friction components at extreme temperatures (read carbon/carbon@1600-2400f)
*note* it was argued that organics exhibit simular problems with outgassing at temp - however it was counter argued that you'd only see it under conditions that organics are innappropriate to use.

Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferarri, et al that are equipping factory vehicles with crossdrilled rotors are doing so with rotors that are cast with the holes in them, using specific metallurgy to support it. Drilling a rotor alters the crystaline structure of the cast material, or at the very least interrupts it.

So, the moral of the story is - crossdrilled rotors are pure bling, rice, marketing hype, whatever. They have very few actual performance advantages outweighed by radical disadvantages in race/high performance applications. Personally, I think they look pretty kickass, and wouldn't hesitate to use them on a street vehicle that I wasn't planning on driving too hard very often or driving hard for any period of time. Don't buy into the marketing hype that says you're performance will be dazzlingly better or that they're a radical improvement over stock.

Even for pure performance, I'd probably not use either slotted nor drilled, but a plain vented disc. Even upgrading to a larger diameter rotor and/or a multipiston caliper would only let you use less physical force at the pedal to provide the same torque at the wheels; I can't say that I've ever felt that I'm straining myself to push the brakes in the neon). Pedal feedback is something else entirely and completely subjective - the fix for that is a simple replacement of the rubber lines at the corners.

RE: fluid boiling - with solids, you're almost required to have some directed cooling to the wheels with solid discs for trackday driving. Thats a seriously massive chunk of steel that has no real way to shed heat other than through the wheels and the caliper. Fade from boiled fluid sucks in the worst way... Swap to vented if possible - I know Baer makes a set that'll fit or add some ducting or both. I've tried to get around that problem on the DSR when I used solids on the front by using a higher temp fluid, but I wasn't happy with the results. Vented made a huge difference.

jphillips · Post by **jphillips** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:05 pm

suggested staying clear of the slotted rotors cause they do not vent enough like the xdrilled. That last picture seems to show a good example.

that's absolutely not true. The damage to the rotor has absolutely nothing to do with outgassing - matter of fact, the term outgassing refers to where the pad's material is burning off at such a rapid rate/temperature that the gasses produced inhibit contact with the rotor.... bad for braking performance, but has absolutely nothing to do with physical damage to the rotor.

If you look closely, the crack formed at the edge of the rotor at the termination of the milled slot. Right where the slotted section leaves the face of the rotor developed a crack from heat cycling which grew to the center of the rotor during subsequent heat cycles. Pretty common actually. I've seen solid rotors do the same thing - supposedly caused by inconsistencies in the crystalline structure during casting. This is the kind of thing that cryo treating rotors inhibits to some degree.

freerider · Post by **freerider** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:14 pm

So what's the best rotors to go for. I auto-cross and I am looking for an amazing brake set-up... (so something that can take a beating and still be there)

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:32 pm

power slot recommends using a semi metallic pad. They clearly state not to use ceramic pads.

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:09 pm

http://www.racepages.com/products/?Ntt= ... rs&N=10025

Has anybody tried the dash slotted rotors that are on this site? if so how did they work for you?

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/rot168630400.html

what about these rotors is this a good price for each?

or

http://www.prostreetonline.com/a/dodge_ ... rotors.asp

would these be the better deal?

has anybody dealed with this company
http://www.spiderautomotive.com/nebrroposl.html

where did you guy buy your power slotted rotors from?

kornholio788 · Post by **kornholio788** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:40 pm

^^^ I am interested as well.. I need new rotors adn i would like something like the slotted ones for shows and I would like them to not rust soo easily. ANyone?? ahve any good sugestions that isnt ungodly expensive?

2001Neon_LX · Post by **2001Neon_LX** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:41 pm

Im hard on brakes and I have found just big old vented rotors with semi-metallic pads will take a hell of a beating. Just my 2 cents.

jphillips · Post by **jphillips** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:59 pm

I'd have to agree - it's really tough to beat the price/performance of OEM vented rotors in 99% of the applications. Pads make a massive difference and how you bed them in before hard use makes as much difference again... Most of the time rotors get "glazed" not because the rotors themselves or the formulation of the pad was bad, but because the new pads were improperly bedded.

....I can't stress this enough; if you haven't upgraded the OEM rubber hoses at the corners, that's the first thing you should do before upgrading anything else. They don't need to be purdy braided stainless, rubber sheathed kevlar lines are just as good if not better.

Product inspired directly by the aforementioned rotor thread on CornerCarvers;

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_pa ... ducts_id=1

2001Neon_LX · Post by **2001Neon_LX** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:09 pm

Ya I have seen friends get thier brakes done then hop in the car and go out and just hammer on them to the point where about the third time they really put the brakes on the car takes forever to stop and they end up going through a stop sign, due to the rotors being glazed. My friends are "amazing" with thier vehicles.

half_twisted · Post by **half_twisted** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:53 pm

I use full carbon metalics from duralast and i like then... except that one time my caliper leaked fluid on the pad and with the extream heat the pads ended up cracking and braking up..

id also say not the get the cast iron rotors that rust.. if possible try the black cast the power slot offers. not sure if they have them for our applicatons.. im alos sure the grade and quality of the cast has alot to do with the performance results its just a matter of finding a brand that offers the design you want with a good grade cast that will last..

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:40 pm

jphillips wrote: ....I can't stress this enough; if you haven't upgraded the OEM rubber hoses at the corners, that's the first thing you should do before upgrading anything else. They don't need to be purdy braided stainless, rubber sheathed kevlar lines are just as good if not better.

I used to think that. But then with the neon even with the old stock lines, just doing a fluid flush did wonders like nothing else. I still run stock lines and can brake hard enough into a corner that the only part left of me touching the car is my foot on the brake, my hands on the wheel, and the seatbelt pulling into my chest. Reason why most people think lines are an upgrade is that it's the first time most people really do a thorough brake fluid flush. Gains from stainless braided lines are none to minimal at best.

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:04 am

jphillips wrote:I'd have to agree - it's really tough to beat the price/performance of OEM vented rotors in 99% of the applications. Pads make a massive difference and how you bed them in before hard use makes as much difference again... Most of the time rotors get "glazed" not because the rotors themselves or the formulation of the pad was bad, but because the new pads were improperly bedded.

how do you bed the pads right?

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:52 am

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedinstock.shtml

jphillips · Post by **jphillips** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:45 pm

Gains from stainless braided lines are none to minimal at best.

I dissagree. Are you talking performance gains? I agree, there's none to be had and like I said if you can lock the wheels, you have more braking torque than you need... I've never felt strained to get *more* braking from the Neon, or like I'm exerting any more than minimal effort to get even maximum braking from the stock system. There is though quite a bit of pedal travel.

Going back to my previous statement about feeling being subjective, upgrading the rubber lines is a noticable difference on just about any vehicle in regards to feel at the pedal - there's less flex in the lines, the pedal travels less and is of generally firmer feel. IMHO, A firm pedal is easier for me to modulate at the limit than something that has 3-4" of travel in it.

A good flush and change of fluid is always noticable because brake fluid absorbs water over time, but it's still not the same as having the equivalent of hardlines all the way to the calipers. Changing to a twin piston or 4piston caliper would probably be another dramatic change in pedal feel over stock.

What the hell - the lines at the corners cost something like $90 for a full set, about $45 for just the front.

half_twisted · Post by **half_twisted** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:36 pm

time out:::

ok I think we might be going off of the original question. I agree when it comes to breaking I i think im not alone on this, many things come to play. Brake fluid, pads, heat, all wheel disk brakes but ultimately I think its safe to say that a good set of oem rotors and good quality pads will work great when combined with a good set of sticky tires. Braking/stoping results will vary on the quality of tires you run.
time in::

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:01 am

it looks like slotted and cross drilled is coming back in the long run 7 to 5 close call on the poll

jphillips · Post by **jphillips** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:31 am

it's 'cos they look sweet.

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:16 pm

well it is true about the cracking on the cross drilled i seen a web site that said they are not performance rotors they are just for looks and every day driving so now i just have to find a good set of slotted that wont brake my bank so fast i have about 1/8 in. of pad left now lol cuttin it close i know

can anyone check out these ultimax rotors 2nd one on the page. do you think these will work as good as the slotted rotors?
and i was wondering what is the diameter of the oem rotors?
http://www.racepages.com/products/?N=16 ... 10025+6854

thanks for the help

2GN.ORG

rotors and pads????

which is the better set up

rotors and pads????