My car seems to be drinking more gas then usual?

deep1ca · Post by **deep1ca** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:50 pm

I could just be me but I think my car has been drinking more gas then usual lately.

Any ideas?

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:33 pm

because it got colder

colder air=more dense

more dense air=more fuel needed to supply the needed combustion

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:08 pm

Also the Winter gas mix is more volitle so you'll burn more. Do a google search on "Winter Gas Bad Gas Mileage" and you'll learn more.

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:29 pm

cant find anything, send me a link. better yet, send 3 or more proving this. i cant find anything on the first 2 search pages

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:51 pm

It is a well know tidbit that winter gas gets worse mileage.

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/winterGas/winterGas.html

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/t ... y-mileage/

http://www.epinions.com/msg/show_~threa ... um_id_~124

Paul56 · Post by **Paul56** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:43 am

-Winter tires
-Colder weather
-Pulling it through the snow, which we got a dumping of
-Mashing the pedal so you can slide around the corners.

It all adds up to increased fuel consumption.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:18 am

Kelevra wrote:cant find anything, send me a link. better yet, send 3 or more proving this. i cant find anything on the first 2 search pages

racer12306 wrote:It is a well know tidbit that winter gas gets worse mileage.

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/winterGas/winterGas.html

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/t ... y-mileage/

http://www.epinions.com/msg/show_~threa ... um_id_~124

Touché

Post by **Canada** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:30 pm

Hmmm. I wonder. Driving Habits?

deep1ca wrote:fookin bastard snow, we got it too.

But I must say, pulling the hand brake and sliding around corners is s0o0o0o much fun. I spent like half an hour around 1 in the morning doing that lol. Just going round and round my block sliding the car at every corner. The snow circuit

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:34 pm

occasional demons wrote:
Kelevra wrote:cant find anything, send me a link. better yet, send 3 or more proving this. i cant find anything on the first 2 search pages

racer12306 wrote:It is a well know tidbit that winter gas gets worse mileage.

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/winterGas/winterGas.html

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/t ... y-mileage/

http://www.epinions.com/msg/show_~threa ... um_id_~124
Touché

upon skimming and some reading of those links, more so then often it's pinning it on the air temp and driving habits of the air, not the volatileness off the fuel being higher. My opinion on all this is

lower temps=colder incoming air=more dense=more fuel needed to supply ample combustion.

Driving habits. snow=friction=more power needed=more fuel needed

warming up the car. a car burns on average 4ozs of fuel every minute of idling when warm, it is more than that when cold=more fuel consumed without going anywhere.

Traffic. Holiday traffic is a bitch! 'nough said

engine being cold. when the block is cold and the oil, tranny fluid and all lubricated parts in general, the cold makes the viscosity (resistance of fluids to flow) gos up meaning the engine needs more power and fuel to turn the now heavier fluid due to the cold weather. also, it dumps more fuel into the engine at startup (making the mixture rich) for this reason and to prevent damage to the internals because of a cold start.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:13 pm

Kelevra wrote:snow=friction=more power needed=more fuel needed

hahahahha, might want to re think that one

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:29 pm

fixitmattman wrote:
Kelevra wrote:snow=friction=more power needed=more fuel needed

hahahahha, might want to re think that one

let me add that if it is unpacked it will cause more friction. if it's packed then yeah, you will be sliding around XD

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:45 am

how many miles has it been since the last tune up? oh yeah, and winter gas really is a different mix than other seasons. save about 2 tanks worth around february and use it during the summer and you'll see the difference. and no, it won't be because it's 3 months old.

deep1ca · Post by **deep1ca** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:39 am

Wenuden wrote:how many miles has it been since the last tune up? oh yeah, and winter gas really is a different mix than other seasons. save about 2 tanks worth around february and use it during the summer and you'll see the difference. and no, it won't be because it's 3 months old.

tune up was done about 2500km ago.
Its gotta be the winter gas.

great, now i've got one more reason to hate the canadian winter.

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:32 am

lol it's not just canada, it's anywhere that gets consistent sub-50* weather.

deep1ca · Post by **deep1ca** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:57 pm

I wanna move to California.

boxcarfan · Post by **boxcarfan** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:59 pm

wow ive had the same problem...it drinks a shit more...but it dont get too cold around here...south carolina lol....but i just put fuel system cleaner just to see if thats whats it is....before i noticed this i had changed the plugs to copper ones nks....but i drove from nashville to SC and i got GREAT gas mileage....but now its gotten pretty bad i think.....i shift at 2500 rpm....and i do alot of interstate driving and still get shitty mileage...i drive 60 miles and thats a 1/4 of a tank....i think it just MAY be the O2 sensor....i gotta wait to get my scan tool and then ill graph it....but till then...im screwed lol.

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:15 pm

deep1ca wrote:I wanna move to California.

i think one of your rockers might be loose. where you really want to move is florida. Cali has the strictest automobile modding laws in the U.S., and florida barely has any lol. similar weather, and personally i'd rather have hurricanes than earthquakes.

deep1ca · Post by **deep1ca** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:09 am

Wenuden wrote:
deep1ca wrote:I wanna move to California.
i think one of your rockers might be loose. where you really want to move is florida. Cali has the strictest automobile modding laws in the U.S., and florida barely has any lol. similar weather, and personally i'd rather have hurricanes than earthquakes.

when was the last time you heard of a a bad earthquake in California?
maybe its just the canadian media, but around here we rarely hear about a earthquake in cali, infact I think I have never heard of a recent earthquake in cali. Florida on the other hand, some hurricane bullshit every year.

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:17 am

Living in Colorado does not help with this problem either.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:41 am

deep1ca wrote:
Wenuden wrote:
deep1ca wrote:I wanna move to California.
i think one of your rockers might be loose. where you really want to move is florida. Cali has the strictest automobile modding laws in the U.S., and florida barely has any lol. similar weather, and personally i'd rather have hurricanes than earthquakes.
when was the last time you heard of a a bad earthquake in California?
maybe its just the canadian media, but around here we rarely hear about a earthquake in cali, infact I think I have never heard of a recent earthquake in cali. Florida on the other hand, some hurricane bullshit every year.

actually me living in cali, we had numerous earthquakes this summer. but nothing that cuased that much damage yet...& we are still supposed to have a earthquake that is as big as the one in 1902 & 1989. but me earthquakes > hurricanes.

deep1ca · Post by **deep1ca** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:09 am

blown away by the wind VS crushed by a falling wall...

hmm.. tough call

Edit: or burned alive in malibu

Paul56 · Post by **Paul56** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:20 pm

deep1ca wrote:when was the last time you heard of a a bad earthquake in California?

October 17, 1989... it was all over the Canadian news.

I remember well watching the coverage and wondering how bad it was going to be.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:40 pm

Kelevra wrote:
occasional demons wrote:
Kelevra wrote:cant find anything, send me a link. better yet, send 3 or more proving this. i cant find anything on the first 2 search pages

racer12306 wrote:It is a well know tidbit that winter gas gets worse mileage.

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/winterGas/winterGas.html

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/t ... y-mileage/

http://www.epinions.com/msg/show_~threa ... um_id_~124
Touché
upon skimming and some reading of those links, more so then often it's pinning it on the air temp and driving habits of the air, not the volatileness off the fuel being higher. My opinion on all this is

lower temps=colder incoming air=more dense=more fuel needed to supply ample combustion.

Driving habits. snow=friction=more power needed=more fuel needed

warming up the car. a car burns on average 4ozs of fuel every minute of idling when warm, it is more than that when cold=more fuel consumed without going anywhere.

Traffic. Holiday traffic is a bitch! 'nough said

engine being cold. when the block is cold and the oil, tranny fluid and all lubricated parts in general, the cold makes the viscosity (resistance of fluids to flow) gos up meaning the engine needs more power and fuel to turn the now heavier fluid due to the cold weather. also, it dumps more fuel into the engine at startup (making the mixture rich) for this reason and to prevent damage to the internals because of a cold start.

From the first link...

To do this, fuel manufacturers use heavier components in the summer and lighter components in the winter. This is a simplification of things, but it's close enough for government work.
For reformulated winter gas, lighter, low-boiling-point components are added to the gasoline to increase volatility. This makes your car easier to start and accelerates converter light-off, thus lowering emissions.
In the summer, when the temperature is high, the presence of too many light components will cause the fuel to evaporate too readily.

From the second link...

Well I keep pretty good gas mileage records and I can pinpoint pretty much the exact time that winter gas hit the pumps in my area. On average throughout the summer months I got around 20-21mpg on November 15th I filled up at my local Sunoco gas bar, the same one I always go to. After my fill up I began to notice that my fuel gauge seemed to be dropping a little faster than normal. Well after that tank I did the math and sure enough I got 17.78 mpg. There was no snow yet during that tank so I wasn't using 4wd. Since then I've filled up three times and I've got 17.2, 16.83, 17.47.

From the third link...

Many regions in the U.S. (perhaps all regions) have different formulations of gasoline for the winter and summer months. Winter gasoline is partially oxygenated to compensate for higher emissions when a car's engine is cold. In other words, winter gasoline is slightly "pre-burned" to reduce emissions and it does not have as much energy as summer gasoline. This causes a slight drop in gas mileage in the winter months, sometimes as much as 1-2 miles per gallon.

Sure, it is not solely the gas, but it has an impact. The cold does affect it too. Also, if the gas station has switch to an ethanol additive vs the old MTBE additive that could also explain it. You need more alcohol to get the same power than gasoline. The MTBE is being phased out due to environmental problems.

Anyways, there are things to do...

Make sure your tires are inflated as they should (cold weather cause tire pressure to drop), or even increase tire pressure a few psi, just don't go over the tire pressure listed on the sidewall of the tire. (the door says 32psi cold, but most tires can safely handle up to 44psi cold, however your tires may vary, check the sidewall.)
Don't let your car sit and warm up for many minutes. Sure it will make you cozy, but it burns fuel. Start the car, let the oil pressure come up for 30ish seconds - 1 minute, then start driving. This helps because 1. you are working the engine, aka builds heat faster and 2. you are moving so fuel is not wasted not moving.
If you are stuck in traffic for more a time period greater than 30 seconds shut the car off (it takes approximately the same amount of fuel to start the car as it does to idle for 30 seconds)
Don't spin your tires a lot if you get into snow. Sure it's going to happen but keep it to a minimum.
Be calmer with the go pedal, increased TPS values send more fuel into the engine.
Make sure your air filter is clean and your typical tune up stuff is upto date.

aperson · Post by **aperson** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:01 pm

Right now I'm running 87 octane, if I switch back to 89 will my milage come back up? If so will it be worth it? Right now I'm getting about 345 per tank @ $3.35/gal.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:08 pm

How many miles per gallon is that? Miles per tank is a bad way to determine fuel economy.

87 is the way to go on an SXT. People claim that their cars run better on 92, but it may be their mind.

aperson · Post by **aperson** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:29 pm

27.9mpg 12gallons per tank

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:32 pm

aperson wrote:Right now I'm running 87 octane, if I switch back to 89 will my milage come back up? If so will it be worth it? Right now I'm getting about 345 per tank @ $3.35/gal.

345 miles on a neon tank really isn't anything to complain about.... i'm only pullin @200 out of the same tank with premium. that's something to complain about.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:33 pm

you can't figure it out like that. you need to compare actual miles driven to actual gallons put in the tank. just because the tank is 12 gallons doesn't mean that you will put 12 gallons in it.

Andpto · Post by **Andpto** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:28 pm

deep1ca wrote:
Wenuden wrote:
deep1ca wrote:I wanna move to California.
i think one of your rockers might be loose. where you really want to move is florida. Cali has the strictest automobile modding laws in the U.S., and florida barely has any lol. similar weather, and personally i'd rather have hurricanes than earthquakes.
when was the last time you heard of a a bad earthquake in California?
maybe its just the canadian media, but around here we rarely hear about a earthquake in cali, infact I think I have never heard of a recent earthquake in cali. Florida on the other hand, some hurricane bullshit every year.

ive lived in florida for 17 years and ive only been in 3 tropical storms. (tropical storm is when its under 75 mile per under winds) it just matters where u live. if u live in the keys u have a greater chance of getting hit. But i live on the west coast. Cali is very expensive to live in unlike florida.

aperson · Post by **aperson** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:06 pm

Racer12306 I put 12 in each time, I go down til the light comes on, then push it a little more. I can get at least 45 miles once the light comes on.

Is 27 good for this car? Its bone stock with the resonator removed. I hear some people getting 30+

If I swap to a R/T head with the SXT mtx trans will mileage increase? I tend to keep rpms pretty low and I do a lot of highway driving.