So, what all do I need?

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:57 pm

Ok, so let's say I've made up my mind to add a MegaSqurit II or a MicroSqurit(which ever will control the injectors and timing the the least amount of money and the least work wiring it up) so what all am I going to need and what kind of price are we talking?
I know I'll need the unit and a wiring harness but what else is needed? Can I use my stock sensors and just cut and re-hook em' to the MS harness or will I need different sensors? I'd like to control the TPS and MAP sensors so probably the Micro woudln't be best, would it? Talk to me people so I won't go totally mad with this dang NGC system, LOL.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:31 pm

http://www.rs-autosport.com/

http://www.rs-autosport.net/catalog/ind ... 5ef0dce5fd

krc21 · Post by **krc21** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:45 pm

not to hack this thread but what would i risk by getting a megasquirt? could i blow up my engine? how does it work i have over 5 hours of information and im still confused obviously change settings and stuff how much fuel things like that but yeah... could i hurt my engine at all or is it set to where it wont let you mess things up.. its just push and play on the laptop

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:09 pm

The more performance advantage of a part, the more risk of breakage there is. Megasquirt is no exception. Yes, you can break your car with it. Emphasis on YOU.

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:23 pm

Kyle: You will also need to switch back to your OEM computer to meet MD emissions requirements when you get called in for emissions inspection. MS is not OBD-II compliant.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:19 pm

Thank god that only Davison Co.(Nashville) has emissions, here you just pay your $24 bucks to get your new tags each year so it's not a problem for me.

Still haven't had my question answered. I need a list of everything I'll need to convert my car to run a MegaSqurit or MicroSqurit whichever I can get by with to run fuel and ignition.
Do I need a 3 or 4 bar MAP sensor? Which harness do I need, what else is needed?

krc21 · Post by **krc21** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:29 pm

there arnt emissions in st marys county!!!

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:29 pm

3 BAR supports up to 29.4psi of boost above sea level. More at higher elevations.

You need the megasquirt, a wiring harness, the GM coolant temp sensor, and the GM intake air temp sensor. Get some solder to do it right, or connectors to do a hack job. You'll need to decide if you're putting the coolant temp sensor in the heater line or the water neck. I did mine in the heater line, so I needed a home depot T and hose clamps. And then you need to get a thread tap to put your intake air temp sensor into the manifold. Then you also need to pick up a serial cable to get from the MS to your laptop. It's also a lot better if you have a wideband o2. Only so much you can do with a narrowband.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:38 pm

esteinmaier wrote:3 BAR supports up to 29.4psi of boost above sea level. More at higher elevations.

You need the megasquirt, a wiring harness, the GM coolant temp sensor, and the GM intake air temp sensor. Get some solder to do it right, or connectors to do a hack job. You'll need to decide if you're putting the coolant temp sensor in the heater line or the water neck. I did mine in the heater line, so I needed a home depot T and hose clamps. And then you need to get a thread tap to put your intake air temp sensor into the manifold. Then you also need to pick up a serial cable to get from the MS to your laptop. It's also a lot better if you have a wideband o2. Only so much you can do with a narrowband.

Ok, so since I plan on running N/A a 3 bar will work fine. When I hook in the wires I'll solder and use heat shrink. I'll need to add an extra CTS and ATS into the system for the MS to use but I'll keep the stock ones in place for the NGC system, right? I'll need a wide band Up Stream O2 or a totally new 3rd one for the MS since the NGC uses the up and down stream ones. Or can I just can the down stream one and just run a single O2 for the MS and forget about the ones for the NGC system, won't that throw a code?

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:43 pm

Well, you really don't need any o2 sensors, map sensors, coolant temp sensors, or any of that hooked up to the stock ECU anymore. All it will be doing is controlling your idle air controller, voltage regulator, fans, and gauge cluster. I would just leave all that stuff in though, seeing as there's no point in making it so that you can't switch back later.

Yes, everything will throw a code. In order to run MS, you MUST disconnect the injectors from the stock ECU, and if you want to run spark control as well, you'll be disconnecting the coil pack as well. Just unplug the light. The only one that will matter after you put in the MS is the oil pressure light, and that's on it's own bulb.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:16 am

esteinmaier wrote:Well, you really don't need any o2 sensors, map sensors, coolant temp sensors, or any of that hooked up to the stock ECU anymore. All it will be doing is controlling your idle air controller, voltage regulator, fans, and gauge cluster. I would just leave all that stuff in though, seeing as there's no point in making it so that you can't switch back later.

Yes, everything will throw a code. In order to run MS, you MUST disconnect the injectors from the stock ECU, and if you want to run spark control as well, you'll be disconnecting the coil pack as well. Just unplug the light. The only one that will matter after you put in the MS is the oil pressure light, and that's on it's own bulb.

That's pretty much what I was thinking this morning. Since engine control is under "new management" so to speak all the sensors to the NGC system are pretty much redundant as far as engine control is conserned. I could do away with the O2 and IAT sensors to the NGC since it doesn't need to know the air temp or O2 inputs anymore. Of course I'll still need the coolant temp sensor hooked up for my gauge to work. Doesn't MS also control the Idel Air Control, so that won't be needed to the NGC, just to the MS. Also, are you telling me that MAP will be controled by MS, if you are then does that mean that I could run a 60mm TB and not have to worry about MAP/TPS conflicts, since the engine will be controled by MS there's no way that NGC can put me into "limp mode" if it sees something it doesn't like. Oh happy days, that'll be sweet.
Yep, I've pretty much made up my mind, MS will be my next upgrade even before LSD and gears. Also, that means I can get the OBX stainless header, plug off one of the bungs and just run a single Wide Band O2 and NO CAT, sweet. Man I wish some of ya'll lived close enough to help me install an MS when I get it. It really sounds like this is THE answer I've been looking for so that I'll be in control of my car instead of the NGC.

SGT BRAD · Post by **SGT BRAD** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:23 am

there you go frank. i think you are going to be very happy learning ms. i'll probably be next so keep everyone updated on the n/a progress.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:46 am

We are close enough... You just have to be willing to drive! heh

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:42 pm

esteinmaier wrote:We are close enough... You just have to be willing to drive! heh

So what does "close enough" mean? 100 miles, 500 miles, across the country, LOL.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:01 pm

Only like 8 hours, right? Chicago isn't that far...

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:21 pm

Since I won't be using the stock air temp sensor could I just mount the GM air temp sensor in the stock location? Also, what about the MAP and TPS sensors, will they be wired into the MS or still hooked to the NGC? I guess to make it easy it'd be best to get new fuel injector plugs to solder to the harness then I can fill the stock plugs with silicone to keep em' safe, same with the coil plug, get an extra for the harness and fill the stock one.
I'll also need to pick up a cheap Windows based lap top of some kind. I'd be $100 bucks could net me a pretty decent used one with Win98 or the like from E-Bay.
If someone could can you please help me list things?
1)MegaSqurit II
2)GM Coolant sensor with hook ups
3)GM Air Temp Sensor with hook ups
4) Injector plugs
5)MegaSqurit Harness
6)Lap Top with Serial cable to hook to MS

So what am I forgetting or what should I add to the list? Thanks.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:21 pm

can MS read the A/F Ratio through the stock o2 sensors? Or do you need a separate AFR Guage, wideband I assume...? Sorry /threadjack

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:00 am

kc2002acr wrote:can MS read the A/F Ratio through the stock o2 sensors? Or do you need a separate AFR Guage, wideband I assume...? Sorry /threadjack

No, that's a very good question. From what I've read I think it used a wideband O2 but if anyone with more knowlege can chim in I'd appreciate it.

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:54 am

MS can read any O2 sensor signal. Whether it be from the stock narrow-band or a wide-band, either one will work. You just have to specify which type of sensor you're using in MegaTune, so it knows what kind of signal it's looking at.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:28 pm

so will it display the AFR for you?

CASPERAMC · Post by **CASPERAMC** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:36 pm

well it will be narrowband, which wont really help with tuning at all. it will pretty much tell youu if you are 14.7 or not. i would spend the extra money and get a widebanc. it is completely worth it because tuning is a lot easier and safer.

also frank, i wouldnt put any silicone or anything in the other plugs. i would just use them and just cut into the wires near the pcm. i would put a weather tight plug on both sides and then on the megasquirt wires. that would make it easy to switch back and forth. it will make it a lot easier i wish i had done that. trust me it is worth the extra few bucks. also, by using the stock connectors, you dont have to buy new ones so its cheaper that way, and there isnt much clutter on to of the engine. the map sensor is just a vaccuum line you need to run to the intake manifold somewhere. i teed mine off the pcv line by the manifold but thats not the best way to do it

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:34 pm

That's just it though, I don't NEED to switch back and forth. No emmissions= no need to switch. By the same count I don't want to butcher my stock wirring harness by cutting off conectors or cutting any of it's wires. I'd rather get new connectors to wire into the MS harness for my injectors and coil pack, ect. so that it'll be a totally seperate unit from the NGC. I also didn't want to leave the connectors from the NGC just sitting open for dirt and stuff to collect in, that's why I wanted to fill em' with something then I can always remove the plug at a later date if I have too.
I'd like to add an OXB stainless header and downtube with the MS upgrade, that way I can do a cat delete at the same time and just use the downtube bung for the WideBand O2 and plug the O2 bung in the header collector, or use the header bung and plug the downtube one, whichever would be the best to get a decent O2 reading.
MS isn't seeming so complicated anymore, it's really just a matter of hooking up the sensors that it needs to the MS harness then plugging that into the unit and programing it with a download. Just more time consuming then anything.

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:25 pm

CASPERAMC wrote:well it will be narrowband, which wont really help with tuning at all. it will pretty much tell youu if you are 14.7 or not. i would spend the extra money and get a widebanc. it is completely worth it because tuning is a lot easier and safer.

If you keep your laptop open and running all the time, you can use your stock O2 sensor and it will display everything you need to tune. But not having a wideband gauge installed somewhere means you can't monitor your AFR without the laptop.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:31 pm

Won't the MS adjust the fuel mixture automatically according the the inputs it's getting from the WideBand O2 sensor to stay within the range that I tell it to stay in. I mean, that IS why I'm hooking an O2 sensor up to the MS, so it can adjust the fuel/air mixture. If I set 13.7 as what I want it should stay there or if I go 14.7(suppose to be the "perfect" mixture.) then it'll keep it there, Right?

CASPERAMC · Post by **CASPERAMC** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:50 pm

yes you could do that its called ego correction, but i never could get mine to work, it has worked for some though

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:45 pm

EGO correction and a narrowband would be a joke. It would just oscillate and run like balls. With a megasquirt, you really need a wideband. I'd just recommend getting one that has been properly programmed into megatune. My AEM isn't, and it drives me nuts.

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:38 pm

esteinmaier wrote:I'd just recommend getting one that has been properly programmed into megatune. My AEM isn't, and it drives me nuts.

All that's necessary for the converson from volts to AFR is to input the lookup table. I've heard enough people comment about how they don't like using volts I should just programe in the table. I thought someone might have done it already, but I can't find it now...

CASPERAMC · Post by **CASPERAMC** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:14 pm

esteinmaier wrote: My AEM isn't, and it drives me nuts.

try supplying the power to it and grounding at the same place as the megasquirt. people will dissagree with me, but i did that and it worked fine

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:29 pm

turbodudey wrote:
esteinmaier wrote:I'd just recommend getting one that has been properly programmed into megatune. My AEM isn't, and it drives me nuts.
All that's necessary for the converson from volts to AFR is to input the lookup table. I've heard enough people comment about how they don't like using volts I should just programe in the table. I thought someone might have done it already, but I can't find it now...

Someone posted it on neons.org but a couple people said it still didnt work right. It was a while ago though and I think the thread got off topic (ie I am not sure searching for aem volts will work). I don't see what the big deal is with using volts.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:51 am

It still doesn't work quite right. I just wish I had gone with an LC-1 or something.